The Dutchman's Prediction Page.

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This is for all my predictions... I hope you enjoy reading my predictions for characters, stages, assist trophies, pokéballs, bosses and maybe more. Let's get started.

RETURNING CHARACTERS
Yeah, let's get this on the way. I won't bother with confirmed characters, since we know they're confirmed.
JIGGLYPUFF
http://lostasock.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/jigglypuff_1.jpg

This.. thing ditched Gardevoir.. Man, this pisses me off. Ugh. Fine, you pink pluffball, you win. You're my new Sandbag though.. Jigglypuff users, you have been warned.

CAPTAIN FALCON
http://www.mariocube.nl/upload/F_Zero_GX1360275757.jpg

Do I really need to explain this? No? Let's continue then.

GAME AND WATCH
http://nindb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/dol/images/cam/gal/gal_gw-1a.jpg

If you've been following the icon theory, then you know why he's in here. Personally, why kick him out? He's awesome, original moveset... Let's go for it!

MEWTWO
http://www.asmodee.com/produits/946/150_mewtwo.jpg

Pokémon reps have always been a rather touchy subject amongst us speculators. I think we can say safely Mewtwo will return though.

GANONDORF
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6991/ganondorflr7.jpg
(Awesome pic by Bane)

Seriously. Does anybody doubt Ganondorf's return?

LUIGI
http://www.leweyg.com/Luigi.jpg

Why do I even bother? We're all expecting it, Luigi's moveset will have his Poltergeist 3000. Or was it 2000? Personally, I'm hoping they make him Mr. L. Original character and it's still Luigi! But I guess that's too much hope. As long as they make Mr L an alt. costume though.

SHEIK
http://www.ssb-center.com/images_articles/SSBM/Sheik/sheikpresent.jpg

- Her appearance was already created and sent to Sakurai according to some article.
- She already has a moveset.
- Why not? You could just seperate her from Zelda on the character select screen and give them both an extra down special. Or maybe as a result from the Final Smash, you become Sheik?

MARTH
http://www.ssb-center.com/bibliotheque/SSBM/marth.jpg

Zevox convinced me with his very rational post. It's just a few replies down, why not have a read?

That's 7 Veteran characters. Combine that with the 12 already confirmed, makes for a total of 19 returning characters.

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"What?!" I hear you say. "No Ness?! No Young Link?! WHAT IS THIS BLASPHEMY?!" It's really easy. Let's just look at the discarded Veteran section.

Oh, and look at the Melee 1999 Poll: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=81891 I'll be mentioning this a lot, so it might be handy if you saw it as well.

NOT RETURNING

Ness
Luke Groundwalker made an excellent thread about why Lucas will replace Ness, and I completly agree with him. Go read it. Seriously, do it. The only thing that MIGHT save Ness is the fact that he was second-most wanted 64 Veteran inthe 1999 Melee Poll.

Young Link
*shrug* Look at the Newcomers section.

Falco
No FALCO? Surely, this is the sign of the apocalypse! Get the pitchforks, let's lynch the Dutchman!

Seriously, though, I'm actually kinda of hesistating about this one... If anyone thinks they can convince me to putting him back in, go ahead. I'm not impressed by his popularity or him being a good pilot or having good background story though. You'll need more than that.

Pichu
...yea.

Dr. Mario
...

---

[:034:]

Newcomer Section

Again, I won't bother with the confirmed characters...

Mario

GENO
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/genop.gif

Geno is the doll from Super Mario RPG. I'm sure you all know him, his popularity is IMMENSE. I certainly think he's good for Smash. He was also on the poll FOUR TIMES, together with Ike and Diddy Kong, who are both confirmed. And he was already wanted for Melee, so I think we can give Geno a hearty welcome!

BTW, Sakurai considers him a Mario character, not third-party.

BOWSER JR.
http://www.n-philes.com/m/features/endboss/smsbowserjr.jpg

Bowser Jr. is the main villain in Sunshine and New Super Mario Bros.. There's Petey Piranha and New Super Mario Bros. music has been confirmed, so it seems Sakurai isn't afraid to add these kind of characters (and not just go retro). He wasn't on the poll, but I think I can still say he'll get in. Well, I can say what I want of course, but you know...

Legend of Zelda

MIDNA/WOLF LINK
http://picnic.ciao.com/nl/9459872.jpg

The only good TP-only character, it's Midna. Midna on her own might work as well, but since most of her gameplay she's on Wolf Link, so it'd make more sense to give this duo a chance. Not on Sakurai's Poll though... But then again, only Wind Waker Link and Ganondorf were on there.

WIND WAKER/PHANTOM HOURGLASS/MINISH CAP LINK
http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/04/zelda_ds_magscans.jpg

On Sakurai's Poll.. Important, and the games were good. Even though I hate him, the fact that we might get a WW/PH/MC moveset DOES look appealing. And it if gets rid of Young Link (which I hope so), hey go for it.

Metroid

RIDLEY
http://www.planetezebes.com/infos/personnages/ridley/ridley3.jpg

A character list without Ridley is instant failure.

Kirby

KING DEDEDE
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/kingdedede/kingdedede_071025b-l.jpg

CONFIRMED.
SDKNAJHFASIDGJHASIDjg

Fire Emblem

MICAIAH
http://www.fireemblemempire.com/media/gallery/albums/uploads/artwork/fe10/normal_unknown.jpg

Micaiah replaces the Black Knight as the Radiant Dawn rep... Yeah. With Ike taking the slow, strong sword fighter, let's hope Sakurai goes with the magic.

Earthbound/MOTHER

CLAUS/THE MASKED BOY
http://usuarios.lycos.es/geng/Smash/Newcomers/MaskedMan001.jpg

Claus is the antagonist of MOTHER 3. Equipped with a buster, a sword and some other stuff, he is the ultimate fusion of Samus and Mega Man. And he was on the poll, twice. Just as much as Lucas... Who's playable? Oh my...

Star Fox:

KRYSTAL
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8066/krystalfinalmm3.jpg

Originality, high importance in the Star Fox series since her appearance... And on the poll three times? Who's idea was this? I want to send him flowers.

WOLF O' DONNELL
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/WolfoDonell.jpg

For all non-believers who think Falco is more awesome... YOU MUST DIE. There, I said it. Anyway, poll inclusion, storyline importance and popularity. And he's just frikkin' awesome. Seriously.

Donkey Kong:

King K. Rool
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/KROOL16.JPG

Nobletoast taught me the ways of the Rool. Well, kind of. He's pretty much the only villain, and he was right when he said DK needed more reps. After all, they only had two even though DK exists just as long as Mario? What's up with that? Toasty made me realize this, just believe in the King of Swing. : P

Other Series:

ISAAC
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/isaac.gif

Isaac is the main protagonist of Golden Sun... it seems he's more popular in Europe? Well, if this character gets in just for us, then hell yeah. We Europeans need our lovings.

Oh, and two times on the poll + originality = yes please.

TAKAMARU
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/takamaru2.jpg

Takamaru is awesome, apparently. I think we need a fast swordie, since I'm kinda neglecting them now (Black Knight and Isaac..). If anything, Takamaru should be a fast, samurai-like swordfighter character. He also had some cameo's here and there, and I believe his game was re-released on GBA? Oh, and three times on the poll? Takamaru has a big appetite... for a fight (I can rhyme).

CAPTAIN OLIMAR
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/Olimar.jpg

Everytime you say Captain Olimar doesn't get into Brawl, a Pikmin dies. Think of the Pikmin.

But yeah, throwing Pikmin for the slaughter in an all-out Brawl... Who wouldn't want that? He's high on the poll too, pretty popular... Now we all need is a Pikmin DS.

SUKAPON
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/sukapon.jpg

He's a blob.. But twice on Sakurai's poll and on the Melee 1999 Poll? It's time for Sakurai to finish the fight.

Third-party:

SONIC THE HEDGEHOG
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/sonic/sonic_071010c-l.jpg

CONFIRMED.

Oh man. I saw today's update on the German site, and I was completly blown away. My love for Sonic has come back. And is that Drummond doing Sonic's voice? Hell yeah! Now just keep out the rest of the characters and Sonic got his awesome back.

MEGA MAN
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa202/crazyquick13/megamanrender.jpg
(Awesome pic by Bane)

Mega Man is the most awesome choice for a third-party character. It's not just Kirby who can copy powers. And Mega Man can also shoot his Mega Buster, and maybe use powers from his games? In any case, Mega's cool and definitely deserving of a spot.

And did I mention him being two times on the Poll? Hmm.. Poll goodness.

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Here's a good recap for ya:

Mario Series
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Geno
Bowser Jr.

Legend of Zelda Series
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Wolf Link/Midna
WW/PH/MC Link

Pokémon Series
Pikachu
Pokémon Trainer
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff

Kirby Series
Kirby
Meta Knight
King DeDeDe

Star Fox Series
Fox McCloud
Krystal
Wolf O' Donnell

Metroid Series
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

Fire Emblem Series
Ike
Marth
Micaiah

Earthbound/MOTHER Series
Lucas
Claus, Masked Man

Donkey Kong Series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool

Mario Spinoffs
Wario
Yoshi

Other Series
Captain Falcon
Pit
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Isaac
Takamaru
Captain Olimar
Sukapon

Third Pary
Snake
Sonic
Mega Man

46 characters in total.

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Boss Section

Note that the only boss so far (Petey Piranha) was just a minor boss in a game. The main bosses so far have been PC or AT (Bowser and Andross). Basically, I think only side-villains will be boss characters.

General Scales
http://www.mariocube.nl/upload/Star_Fox_Adventures712616772.jpg

General Scales is really awesome, no matter how you look at him. An evil tyrant ruling over a planet of dinosaurs. Sure, Andross used him and all, but he's still ****** and definitely not afraid to show off how ****** exactly. He'd a be a perfect boss because he's pretty much the main antagonist of Adventures (sure, Andross was the big one, but Scales was the REAL threat all the time, Andross just sorta.. crammed in later). And Andross is an AT now so... Yeah. General Scales FTW!

Zant
http://www.desertcolossus.com/zelda11/zant.jpg

When I searched for 'Zant' I got male models showing off their banana hammock. THE HORROR.

In any case, Zant is the Twilight King and one of the more hilarious Zelda bosses ever. Sure, he was Ganon's slave, but he's still somewhat cool, and he actually has some backstory. And his design is pretty cool too. So why not add him as a boss?

Dark Mind
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/34/Darkmind1.jpg

Definitely one of the more awesome final bosses in the Kirby series. He's the main villain of Kirby & The Amazing Mirror, and.. Yeah. The only thing I see against him is that they'll use the next one instead...

The Cloaked Nightmare
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/c/c7/Wizard.png

Nightmare! The main villain of the first Kirby game and the GBA remake. It might be that this one is more AT material, though I can't say for sure. It's been a while since I played this game...

Lance
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/2/2b/FL_Lance.jpg

Lance as a villain? WHY?! Because of Pokémon Trainer, the FR/LG representative! The only logical choice would be the League Champion, Lance. In my opnion, Lance is really gay, but still... He could use his Dragonite or something, and let it be powerful. VERY powerful.

Colonel Volgin
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Volginsnakeeater.jpg

I don't know much about MGS, but seeing this guy on Sakurai's poll made me do some research. He's apparently the main antagonist of Snake Eater. Uses electricity or something. Prime boss material to me.

Medusa
http://members.lycos.nl/Oonk/pix/medusa.jpg

Kid Icarus' final boss, Medusa! On the poll and the main antagonist.. She might actually be AT material (turn your enemies to stone!), but I could see her as a boss for Pit as well. Only time will tell.

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More to come.

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[Reserved for Pokéballs]

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Assist Trophy Section

Sylux
http://www.nintendopedia.org/images/7/7a/Sylux1.jpg

Sylux is from Metroid Prime Hunters. He's one of the hunters.. Obviously. My favorite as well, to be honest. Why would he be AT? He's possibly returning material. Metroid Prime 3 spoilers everyone!

In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Sylux's ship can be seen at the end of the 100% completion video, where he follows Samus' ship down to a planet.

He could use the Lockjaw and lay a triangle of his trap bombs.

Black Shadow
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/shadow.jpg

The Black Shadow... He was on the poll, so.. Why not. That said, I have NO idea what this guy would do. Run over his opponents? Explode everybody with his cape? Impale people on his mask? I dunno.

Harry
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/reviewteleroboxer-2.jpg

Harry from Teleroboxer. He punches. Wha? Don't we have Knuckle Joe and Little Mac for punching? Yeah, we do. But Harry here is kinda special: his arms aren't restricted to each other. One can move without influencing the other. So with his one arm he could punch in front of him and the other to punch in his back. Or something.

Peppy Hare
http://www.vgr-fr.com/images/dossier/starfox/peppy.jpg

General Peppy tells the Cornerian Army to shoot the stage. Easy, eh?

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More to come.

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[Reserved for Stages]

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[Reserved for Music]

[Hejiru]

I think Jigglypuff will be in.... Sakurai appears to be keeping anybody with a unique moveset. (case-in-point: Ice Climbers)

Long live the puff! :039:

[:034:]

I think Jigglypuff will be in.... Sakurai appears to be keeping anybody with a unique moveset. (case-in-point: Ice Climbers)

Long live the puff! :039:

True, but what about Ness? It seems so far that Lucas is replacing Ness, even though he has a different moveset. So why not have the same with Jigglypuff.

[Zevox]

Marth/Roy
'No Marth? We can understand Roy getting cut...' is probably what you all think. But look at Ike: his stance, his falling position, Eruption, they all resemble Marth's moves. It's out with the old, in with the new with Brawl (just look at TP Link, TP Zelda, F.L.U.D.D. Mario, Lucas), so goodbye Marth and Roy. We never knew ye.
You're kidding me. You must not be very familiar with Marth at all. First of all, Eruption is utterly unlike Shield Breaker in any manner save that its chargeable, a similarity it shares with so many moves its ridiculous to call it a true similarity (see: DK's punch, Ness' PK Flash, Samus Charge Beam, Mewtwo's Shadow Ball, Link's bow, etc). Beyond that, Eruption is a stab to the ground which sends a line of erupting magma traveling along the ground out in front of Ike, whereas Shield Breaker is a simple, powerful sword swing - nothing similar there at all. Second, you'll note that Aether is nothing alike unto Dolphin Slash at all. Third, none of Ike's attacks we've seen thus far at all resemble Marth's - I could go into detail with the screens we have, but I'm not that obsessed with the game. Suffice to say, if you go back and look at the attacks and take a reasonable guess as to which ones they could be, you'll find they do not resemble Marth's (example: in the update revealed him we have him making a slash in front of him in mid-air against link, which would be either his neutral or forward air, and doesn't in the least resemble either of Marth's).

As for the "out with the old, in with the new" idea, your premise is first of all ridiculous. Link and Zelda using their TP appearance is merely because its their most up-to-date appearance, so theres no point in using any other when any other would need to be made up from scratch. Link's gale boomerang is a simple add-on to his existing ability. FLUDD is replacing a "special move" which wasn't related to Mario's abilities from his games at all and was already similar to his down aerial, so its entirely understandable. And Lucas was intended to be in instead of Ness since the first game, but the delays to his game prevented it. Beyond that, also consider that Fire Emblem is very different from Nintendo's other franchises in that it has different stars for each game - unlike with Zelda for instance, you can't just "update" to the newest character designs, because those are utterly different characters from the older ones and represent only a small portion of the series, where updates to Link and Zelda's abilities merely add on to their previous powers or improve their appearance, and since they're still the same individuals they can still represent their entire series perfectly well.

Ike is in on his own merits - being one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters both in Japan and internationally and one of the two to star in two games - not to replace anyone. Theres absolutely no reason to remove Marth, who is an even better representative for Fire Emblem than Ike, being its first Lord, the other of the two to star in two games, and one of its most popular even after more than a decade since his last game, and a veteran to boot; so unless Sakurai is being pretty frivolous with his removals (which I doubt he is, since hes thus far given me every reason to believe hes a rational, intelligent individual), Marth is just as likely to be in as Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Ganondorf.

Zevox

[raphtmarqui]

You're kidding me. You must not be very familiar with Marth at all. First of all, Eruption is utterly unlike Shield Breaker in any manner save that its chargeable, a similarity it shares with so many moves its ridiculous to call it a true similarity (see: DK's punch, Ness' PK Flash, Samus Charge Beam, Mewtwo's Shadow Ball, Link's bow, etc). Beyond that, Eruption is a stab to the ground which sends a line of erupting magma traveling along the ground out in front of Ike, whereas Shield Breaker is a simple, powerful sword swing - nothing similar there at all. Second, you'll note that Aether is nothing alike unto Dolphin Slash at all. Third, none of Ike's attacks we've seen thus far at all resemble Marth's - I could go into detail with the screens we have, but I'm not that obsessed with the game. Suffice to say, if you go back and look at the attacks and take a reasonable guess as to which ones they could be, you'll find they do not resemble Marth's (example: in the update revealed him we have him making a slash in front of him in mid-air against link, which would be either his neutral or forward air, and doesn't in the least resemble either of Marth's).

As for the "out with the old, in with the new" idea, your premise is first of all ridiculous. Link and Zelda using their TP appearance is merely because its their most up-to-date appearance, so theres no point in using any other when any other would need to be made up from scratch. Link's gale boomerang is a simple add-on to his existing ability. FLUDD is replacing a "special move" which wasn't related to Mario's abilities from his games at all and was already similar to his down aerial, so its entirely understandable. And Lucas was intended to be in instead of Ness since the first game, but the delays to his game prevented it. Beyond that, also consider that Fire Emblem is very different from Nintendo's other franchises in that it has different stars for each game - unlike with Zelda for instance, you can't just "update" to the newest character designs, because those are utterly different characters from the older ones and represent only a small portion of the series, where updates to Link and Zelda's abilities merely add on to their previous powers or improve their appearance, and since they're still the same individuals they can still represent their entire series perfectly well.

Ike is in on his own merits - being one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters both in Japan and internationally and one of the two to star in two games - not to replace anyone. Theres absolutely no reason to remove Marth, who is an even better representative for Fire Emblem than Ike, being its first Lord, the other of the two to star in two games, and one of its most popular even after more than a decade since his last game, and a veteran to boot; so unless Sakurai is being pretty frivolous with his removals (which I doubt he is, since hes thus far given me every reason to believe hes a rational, intelligent individual), Marth is just as likely to be in as Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Ganondorf.

Zevox

Yea his "reasons" for Marth not returning are pretty stupid.

[:034:]

You're kidding me. You must not be very familiar with Marth at all. First of all, Eruption is utterly unlike Shield Breaker in any manner save that its chargeable, a similarity it shares with so many moves its ridiculous to call it a true similarity (see: DK's punch, Ness' PK Flash, Samus Charge Beam, Mewtwo's Shadow Ball, Link's bow, etc). Beyond that, Eruption is a stab to the ground which sends a line of erupting magma traveling along the ground out in front of Ike, whereas Shield Breaker is a simple, powerful sword swing - nothing similar there at all. Second, you'll note that Aether is nothing alike unto Dolphin Slash at all. Third, none of Ike's attacks we've seen thus far at all resemble Marth's - I could go into detail with the screens we have, but I'm not that obsessed with the game. Suffice to say, if you go back and look at the attacks and take a reasonable guess as to which ones they could be, you'll find they do not resemble Marth's (example: in the update revealed him we have him making a slash in front of him in mid-air against link, which would be either his neutral or forward air, and doesn't in the least resemble either of Marth's).

As for the "out with the old, in with the new" idea, your premise is first of all ridiculous. Link and Zelda using their TP appearance is merely because its their most up-to-date appearance, so theres no point in using any other when any other would need to be made up from scratch. Link's gale boomerang is a simple add-on to his existing ability. FLUDD is replacing a "special move" which wasn't related to Mario's abilities from his games at all and was already similar to his down aerial, so its entirely understandable. And Lucas was intended to be in instead of Ness since the first game, but the delays to his game prevented it. Beyond that, also consider that Fire Emblem is very different from Nintendo's other franchises in that it has different stars for each game - unlike with Zelda for instance, you can't just "update" to the newest character designs, because those are utterly different characters from the older ones and represent only a small portion of the series, where updates to Link and Zelda's abilities merely add on to their previous powers or improve their appearance, and since they're still the same individuals they can still represent their entire series perfectly well.

Ike is in on his own merits - being one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters both in Japan and internationally and one of the two to star in two games - not to replace anyone. Theres absolutely no reason to remove Marth, who is an even better representative for Fire Emblem than Ike, being its first Lord, the other of the two to star in two games, and one of its most popular even after more than a decade since his last game, and a veteran to boot; so unless Sakurai is being pretty frivolous with his removals (which I doubt he is, since hes thus far given me every reason to believe hes a rational, intelligent individual), Marth is just as likely to be in as Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Ganondorf.

Zevox

Those are some excellent points you made. Thank you for not being an idiot and started flaming, with your rational statements, I can see Marth coming back now.

Sheesh, I didn't think I'd have to edit my list so soon. >_> <_<

[xianfeng]

This thread is horribly unlikely, you seriously think that Arceus and Gardevoir will be in you must be dillusional.

[:034:]

This thread is horribly unlikely, you seriously think that Arceus and Gardevoir will be in you must be dillusional.

Maybe you should READ? Out of all the Pokémon, Gardevoir has the most chance. Like I said, popularity doesn't matter AT ALL. Popular Pokémon just become Pokéballs AND THAT'S IT. Don't forget that Gardevoir is the ONLY Pokémon on Sakurai's poll, which gives it the edge over every other Pokémon.

And Arceus is the GOD of Pokémon. He completly obliterates the most used argument against Pokémon characters: TOO RANDOM. Pokémon Trainer also had the 'not random' factor, and look! He made it in. Maybe I'm dillusional, but maybe you need to be more open-minded.

[MysticKenji]

9/10

-1 for no Falco

[Desert Eagle]

Arceus and Gardevoir are a bit 'iffy' imo and well, Wolf+Midna?

Why man?? I love TP but come on! What can they do? Crazy hair attacks is all.

Otherwise, I generally like your list :)

[:034:]

Arceus and Gardevoir are a bit 'iffy' imo and well, Wolf+Midna?

Why man?? I love TP but come on! What can they do? Crazy hair attacks is all.

Otherwise, I generally like your list :)

Have you read Ferro De Lupe's moveset? That one just shows how awesome Midna and Wolf Link can be.

And thanks.

[hungrybum]

arceus and gardevoir before jiggs, meowth and lucario.... man your weird

[Ridley FTB!!!]

not bad dude not bad
clause should get in because sakurai made an atempt at mother series so hey mabye but from the starting n64 roster each one should have at least one villian

[nobletoast]

No Jigglypuff? Its a shame because of her great original moveset.

Personaly I think you have a good roster. I think 5 retro characters is too much. Takamaru AND Sukapon on top of the other three is a bit much. It sort of takes away from the nostalgia of seeing Pit, Ice Climbers etc in Brawl when theres alot of retro characters...but personally if there all in i'd be happy with it. I just doubt it.

The pokemon section is controversial. Lucario's popularity is something you'l be hearing alot from in this thread so i wont bother.

Also i think you should add King K Rool in. Ive explained this a lot so i'll just link you to the roster thread i made myself with my reasons included... http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=118915

Four Fire Emblem characters is a joke. I dont see how people could even consider giving such an unoriginal and unimportant series that only got international release a few years ago more characters than important franchises such Star Fox, Donkey Kong and Kirby. Dont get me wrong i like the games but Marth, Ike and Black Knight would all have too similar movesets to warrant them all being included. Its probably going to be a three way battle between Miciaiah, Black Knight and Marth for the last place. Im happy with any of the three just not all of them.

Apart from this if it was the end roster id be really happy.

8.5/10

Hope you return the favour and coment on my roster and im looking forward to your other ideas since you seem to have no problem defying convention ie - Your Pokemon section

[FiErCe_oNi]

no falco? arceus and gardy over lucario and jiggly?

uggh, no way.
for one thing, arceus is way too overpowered ("god" type) and for another its a quadroped.
and starfox is awsome! what would the point of taking away the secondary character and second most popular character be? i've loved falco over fox since SF64 was released.
lastly, gardevoir? its just the next blaziken. literally. you complain over this all you want, but the truth is, just like blaziken is similar to c falcon, gardy is similar to mewtwo. id rather keep jigglypuff. sakurai said that he doesnt care how popular a character is anyway, so that just takes away one of gardy's biggest chances. she was on a poll? so was alot of other crap. im not trying to go for extreme anti-gardy'ism here, but i really dont see her with much high chances, just like i didnt when blaziken was popular.

... i gotta admit though, i do like your idea on lance as a boss, even though i think he could work just as well as a character. of course, why i support lance is obvious anyway.

[axemangx]

Maybe you should READ? Out of all the Pokémon, Gardevoir has the most chance. Like I said, popularity doesn't matter AT ALL. Popular Pokémon just become Pokéballs AND THAT'S IT. Don't forget that Gardevoir is the ONLY Pokémon on Sakurai's poll, which gives it the edge over every other Pokémon.

And Arceus is the GOD of Pokémon. He completly obliterates the most used argument against Pokémon characters: TOO RANDOM. Pokémon Trainer also had the 'not random' factor, and look! He made it in. Maybe I'm dillusional, but maybe you need to be more open-minded.

People dont want Lucario for just his popularity.


I'd have a visit to the Lucario shrine if you dont mind.

[:034:]

no falco? arceus and gardy over lucario and jiggly?

uggh, no way.
for one thing, arceus is way too overpowered ("god" type) and for another its a quadroped.
and starfox is awsome! what would the point of taking away the secondary character and second most popular character be? i've loved falco over fox since SF64 was released.
lastly, gardevoir? its just the next blaziken. literally. you complain over this all you want, but the truth is, just like blaziken is similar to c falcon, gardy is similar to mewtwo. id rather keep jigglypuff. sakurai said that he doesnt care how popular a character is anyway, so that just takes away one of gardy's biggest chances. she was on a poll? so was alot of other crap. im not trying to go for extreme anti-gardy'ism here, but i really dont see her with much high chances, just like i didnt when blaziken was popular.

... i gotta admit though, i do like your idea on lance as a boss, even though i think he could work just as well as a character. of course, why i support lance is obvious anyway.

Please stop failing so hard.

Arceus being 'overpowered' means nothing. Just because he's strong in the games doesn't mean he'll be strong in Melee (case and point: Mewtwo).

The secondary character has been Krystal since Star Fox Command. So no, to that. The decision between Falco and Wolf is mainly just opinion, who is more awesome and popular? I pick Wolf. I still see no reason that can't be countered.

And Mewtwo being the same as Gardevoir? Looks like you have a severe case of the dumb. Mewtwo is about raw power and darkness, while Gardevoir is about serenity, grace and light. Maybe you need to look at the Gardevoir thread: it's pretty good.

About Arceus... Quadruped? IVYSAUR, MAN. FRIKKIN IVYSAUR. And don't go 'he doesn't have any arms so can't grab or whatever' on me. He created the world and the universe with it's thousand ARMS. Oh, and did I mention the fact that he's a GOD? If you'd have read my moveset, and got more interested in the character, you might have known it could easily work.

And yes, you are right that a ton of crap was on Sakurai's Poll, but he just did that for the laughs. Link's Uncle and such. Very funny, but Gardevoir's the only POKEMON to make it on the list (aside from a few trainers, I believe). Not Mew, not Meowth, not Raichu, GARDEVOIR made it. I think that's saying something.

People dont want Lucario for just his popularity.

I know, but it's the first argument you hear from Lucario supporters.

I'd have a visit to the Lucario shrine if you dont mind.

I did.

No Jigglypuff? Its a shame because of her great original moveset.

Personaly I think you have a good roster. I think 5 retro characters is too much. Takamaru AND Sukapon on top of the other three is a bit much. It sort of takes away from the nostalgia of seeing Pit, Ice Climbers etc in Brawl when theres alot of retro characters...but personally if there all in i'd be happy with it. I just doubt it.

The pokemon section is controversial. Lucario's popularity is something you'l be hearing alot from in this thread so i wont bother.

Also i think you should add King K Rool in. Ive explained this a lot so i'll just link you to the roster thread i made myself with my reasons included... http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=118915

Four Fire Emblem characters is a joke. I dont see how people could even consider giving such an unoriginal and unimportant series that only got international release a few years ago more characters than important franchises such Star Fox, Donkey Kong and Kirby. Dont get me wrong i like the games but Marth, Ike and Black Knight would all have too similar movesets to warrant them all being included. Its probably going to be a three way battle between Miciaiah, Black Knight and Marth for the last place. Im happy with any of the three just not all of them.

Apart from this if it was the end roster id be really happy.

8.5/10

Hope you return the favour and coment on my roster and im looking forward to your other ideas since you seem to have no problem defying convention ie - Your Pokemon section

I agree that Jigglypuff is still original. But still, Jiggs is a mistake. It's time to erase the mistake.

I guess you're right on too many retro characters. Maybe I'll replace Sukapon with your requested K. Rool? I hadn't thought of him as playable, but I'll look into it.

And.. Fire Emblem being unoriginal and unimportant? It goes all the way back to the NES and was it's first in it's kind, I believe. Though I guess you're right on the four FE characters... Might be pushing it. It's gonna be a battle between Micaiah and Black Knight then...

I'll reply to your roster in a minute. Thanks for the help.

EDIT:
arceus and gardevoir before jiggs, meowth and lucario.... man your weird

Yeah, we pretty much established that much. XD

[MysticKenji]

The League Champion in FR/LG was Blue, FD...

[:034:]

The League Champion in FR/LG was Blue, FD...

He was, but Blue always had the starter that was super-effective against your starter. And the Pokémon Trainer had ALL the starters... So I picked Lance instead.

But you're right that he technically is the Champion..

[SonicMario]

You know, for Sonic's Voice. It doesn't have to be Griffith making long sentences. We can all be fine if it's just grunts and the only time it reaches more then 3-4 words is a taunt. Or they can always do the Japanese Sonic voice... or they can recycle voice clips from the Drummond age. (Like how they do with Mario, even though Martinent still does the voice)

[FiErCe_oNi]

Please stop failing so hard.please don't be like that

Arceus being 'overpowered' means nothing. Just because he's strong in the games doesn't mean he'll be strong in Melee (case and point: Mewtwo).arceus is a "god". mewtwo is strong, but arceus is a "god".

The secondary character has been Krystal since Star Fox Command. So no, to that. The decision between Falco and Wolf is mainly just opinion, who is more awesome and popular? I pick Wolf. I still see no reason that can't be countered.so... this list of candidates is only your bias opinion? oh, nvm then. its just that most prediction threads are about chances and facts and whatever

And Mewtwo being the same as Gardevoir? Looks like you have a severe case of the dumb. Mewtwo is about raw power and darkness, while Gardevoir is about serenity, grace and light. Maybe you need to look at the Gardevoir thread: it's pretty good.mewtwo may be powerful, but how the heck does that make him raw power?
and really now, don't BS me. those differences between M2 and Gardy don't really mean anything if you think about it.

About Arceus... Quadruped? IVYSAUR, MAN. FRIKKIN IVYSAUR. And don't go 'he doesn't have any arms so can't grab or whatever' on me. He created the world and the universe with it's thousand ARMS. Oh, and did I mention the fact that he's a GOD? If you'd have read my moveset, and got more interested in the character, you might have known it could easily work.ivysaur has vines. arceus is just a weird deer. besides, i wouldnt really care about its shape if arceus wasnt a "god".

And yes, you are right that a ton of crap was on Sakurai's Poll, but he just did that for the laughs. Link's Uncle and such. Very funny, but Gardevoir's the only POKEMON to make it on the list (aside from a few trainers, I believe). Not Mew, not Meowth, not Raichu, GARDEVOIR made it. I think that's saying something.no its not. like you said, she might just be one of sakurais jokes. so she was the only pokemon (not even only pokemon character) isnt saying much at all. didnt all the zelda characters up there suck to?

[vesperview]

Yeah Ness won't return but Marth will? Why don't people start making Why Ike will replace Marth in Brawl! topics, since is the same thing.

Chances are Ness will be in Brawl and Luke Groundwalker's thread is an ode to stupidity, based on pure speculation, biased personal opinion and even more stupidity such as the following: Link from OoT and Link from TP are different chars according to him... unlike Ness and Lucas, gimme a break!

and Takamaru, Arceus and Sukapon have a chance when hell freezes.

[Yukiwarashi]

No Jigglypuff? I'm sorry, I just can't agree. You seem to have a clear bias, especially when you call Jigglypuff a 'mistake'. Jigglypuff may have been ready to disappear in Melee, but Sakurai realized she did have a following, so he kept her. There's no way he'll remove her now. Jigglypuff was still widely used in Melee.

Arceus is a surprising suggestion, well thought out. He does actually have video game relevance compared to Lucario, but I dunno. I'm iffy on that one.

Finally, I'd like you to show me a source where Sakurai said Geno is a Mario character, not a third party character. By definition, Nintendo needs Square Enix's permission to use Geno, which makes him a third party character.

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah Ness won't return but Marth will? Why don't people start making Why Ike will replace Marth in Brawl! topics, since is the same thing.

Chances are Ness will be in Brawl and Luke Groundwalker's thread is an ode to stupidity, based on pure speculation, biased personal opinion and even more stupidity such as the following: Link from OoT and Link from TP are different chars according to him... unlike Ness and Lucas, gimme a break!

and Takamaru, Arceus and Sukapon have a chance when hell freezes.

Takamaru has a GREAT chance...Sukapon has an ok chance. What the hell is wrong with those characters...they would make an awesome additon...especially the originality of Sukapon

[xianfeng]

All character lists are biased this is a fact, no matter how hard we try to be neutral we can't be because we always go by who we think will be in and who we like so they are all biased. This one is no exception, it's just painfully more obvious than most.

[FalconPunch_]

I agree with the almost the whole list. I only disagree with Ridley and Arceus. I would like Arceus in Brawl, but if he is the PokeGod, then he would be better as a tough boss. Same with Ridley, he is a huge monster thingy and it would break the fairness between characters, but i would like to see him as a boss, possibly with Kraid

[FiErCe_oNi]

bowser is a huge monster thing. what makes him deserve a spot and not ridley?

[FalconPunch_]

Bowser is pretty much a big DinoKoopa, but Ridley is a giant dragon monster who could almost eat Bowser whole. I would really like to see him in Brawl, but not playable

[PsychoIncarnate]

Bowser is pretty much a big DinoKoopa, but Ridley is a giant dragon monster who could almost eat Bowser whole. I would really like to see him in Brawl, but not playable

Like Hell Ridley could eat Bowser whole...Ridley is only like a couple feet bigger than Bowser's average size

[FiErCe_oNi]

Bowser is pretty much a big DinoKoopa, but Ridley is a giant dragon monster who could almost eat Bowser whole. I would really like to see him in Brawl, but not playablehe could be downsized you know. i mean he practically is as artificial as you can get, so all in all downsizing ridley wouldnt even not make sense.
Takamaru has a GREAT chancewho the heck is takamaru?

[PsychoIncarnate]

he could be downsized you know. i mean he practically is as artificial as you can get, so all in all downsizing ridley wouldnt even not make sense.
who the heck is takamaru?

Look up Takamaru's thread...He's a Japanese exclusive Retro video game character that is VERY popular in Japan and Sakurai did an entire interview exclusively about the character

[FrozenRoy]

I don't see why Arceus is in over Rukario(Lucario).

Yes, Arceus is unique. But, if you look at all the things in the Rukario topic, Rukario can very easily be unique.

Rukario has more plot importance, though with Deoxys deconfirmed, I guess this isn't terribly important.

One of the first 4th gens released, a small, small bonus.

Popular. Now, you can't just go "Popularity doesn't matter, importance and uniqueness is all that matters!" simply because of a few things.

1. Rukario is sem-signifigant to the Pokemon plot, having his movie and being in the opening.
2. He can be unique easily.
3. If popularity isn't a factor, then Geno gets a major bump down(Though still in), as do a lot of characters.

Would type more, but I have to go to bed. I'll try and be on again to argue my point/counter.

Ciao.

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't see why Arceus is in over Rukario(Lucario).

Yes, Arceus is unique. But, if you look at all the things in the Rukario topic, Rukario can very easily be unique.

Rukario has more plot importance, though with Deoxys deconfirmed, I guess this isn't terribly important.

One of the first 4th gens released, a small, small bonus.

Popular. Now, you can't just go "Popularity doesn't matter, importance and uniqueness is all that matters!" simply because of a few things.

1. Rukario is sem-signifigant to the Pokemon plot, having his movie and being in the opening.
2. He can be unique easily.
3. If popularity isn't a factor, then Geno gets a major bump down(Though still in), as do a lot of characters.

Would type more, but I have to go to bed. I'll try and be on again to argue my point/counter.

Ciao.

Geno is both popular AND unique

[FiErCe_oNi]

he has a point. i don't know where you got the idea that geno isn't popular