Clone or Not? Let's Discuss!

[Yukiwarashi]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Q1kKJO_vto

Clone without a doubt. But still very awesome. I'm thankful that they got rid of his back kick for a slash.

[Brav3r]

i not too worried about their final smash looking the same
i mean look who imitated fox. i'm glad that hopefully all of the
characters have a different taunts. (that would be even worse)

[Rhubarbo]

i not too worried about their final smash looking the same
i mean look who imitated fox. i'm glad that hopefully all of the
characters have a different taunts. (that would be even worse)

Yeah, he has a Wind Waker taunt :/

[PsychoIncarnate]

He's enough of a clone for me to laugh at the people always arguing and yelling when I said he'd end up with the same specials as Link (As by same, I said bow and boomerang and etc. I wasn't specific with it)

You got a victory (Like I knew you would) BUT it's only Bittersweet

[Rhubarbo]

He's enough of a clone for me to laugh at the people always arguing and yelling when I said he'd end up with the same specials as Link (As by same, I said bow and boomerang and etc. I wasn't specific with it)

You got a victory (Like I knew you would) BUT it's only Bittersweet

We, us? Wouldn't you agree that the less clones the better? It's not a victory, it's only a loss because of the lack of an original moveset. Actually, I think Toon Link wouldn't be in, but they added him as a rushed addition. That's right, I think that Brawl wasn't COMPLETED but Nintendo forced Sakurai to finish it quickly. So, Toon Link=Rushed addition and probably would not have been in.

[PsychoIncarnate]

We, us? Wouldn't you agree that the less clones the better? It's not a victory, it's only a loss because of the lack of an original moveset. Actually, I think Toon Link wouldn't be in, but they added him as a rushed addition. That's right, I think that Brawl wasn't COMPLETED but Nintendo forced Sakurai to finish it quickly. So, Toon Link=Rushed addition and probably would not have been in.
um...

Ok...?

I assure you...he WAS planned...

[Gotann]

Everyone that used him never grabbed.... I wonder if his grabs stayed the same or are a bit different now. His Legs are a little smaller so it's a little hard to imagine him kicking people like Link does, and the Take Down doesn't really suit him. Well, that's one of my way to look at it...

[Brav3r]

Link has the claw shot so Toon link shoud have the hook shot.

So I'm thinking, if toon link is a replacement of Y.Link
then is he able to do a wall jump?

[DeuceBlade]

I like toon link's bomb explosion animation.

I don't understand why bowser jr couldn't have just been a bowser clone if he was going to do this again.. I guess its a 4 character limit.

[twilight_hero]

twilight_hero's turn!

He's a clone. SO WHAT? Just the way I was hoping. I main YL. I don't want him changing on me from game to game. Keep in mind, though, that we haven't seen all of his standards, any of his throws, his grab itself (I bet it's Hookshot or grappling hook), his uair, his fair, or his dash attack. I'm sincerely glad he's a clone...with a few minor changes.

Is walljumping in the game? How about crawling? If so, I guarantee he can do both those things.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that, this time around, Sakurai wanted to focus less on fighting and nore on SE.

[NeoSoul]

Maybe because they are not the same person at all, differ greatly in weapons they use (besides the ones that were used for the cloning), and have different peronalities? I think you either didn't play Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass, or are one of the people who do not critique errors in the game (even though they are in denial at the fact that they are disappointed). Or, you could just hate the character and are being a d1ck.

and I think youre one of those whiny girlie boys that btich about every POSSIBLE difference every conceivable occasion, but Im not trying to put anyone on the spot.... theyre obviously not the same PERSON but theyre both fukcing LINK! lets be honest its a game about characters.... that fight, who happen to be in different franchises.... the differences exists WITHIN the games physics and use of the character and thats all they are GOOD for

[Rhubarbo]

I like toon link's bomb explosion animation.

I don't understand why bowser jr couldn't have just been a bowser clone if he was going to do this again.. I guess its a 4 character limit.

Yeah, actually, in retrospect Bowser Jr. would be a good clone. Maybe he could have had the Koopa Klaw instead of Flying Slam. Again, we should stop thinking, ignorance is bliss I guess :P!

[Brav3r]

The 4 player limit could be the reason mew2 didn't make it
but why not krystal?

[Sailyfee]

Who said Toon Link isn't a clone? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q1kKJO_vto)

Everyone that used him never grabbed.... I wonder if his grabs stayed the same or are a bit different now. His Legs is are little smaller so it's a little hard to imagine him kicking people like Link does, and the Take Down doesn't really suit him. Well, that's one of my way to look at it...

Heh, Toon Link is a bit more fiercer than he looks. No srsly.

[Norm]

he looks like a clone but some of his specials are pretty good he cover a lot of distance with his up smash and his sword plant is awesome moves very fast so i like it and the arrows look to be fire arrows like young link and the boomerang works like the old one so i\'m definitly going to try him out.

[jakemcnugget]

despite the small differences in b attacks, theyre still the same basic move.
same b moves + same final smash = same cloned character.

[Brav3r]

i'm glad they are Similar not the same. attributes are what keep
him and most chracters from being a direct clones.

Let use a triangle as an example:

One is and small and green while the other is large and red
Though they both have three sides, they have similar size
becuase they are not eqal in size otherwise they would be
the same. having a differnt color seperates the similarities
even more.

alough it probably wouldn't matter, this is sort of my thinking
for WW Link. Then agian i could have went little off with the
color.

besides the clone thing works like this for me OoT Link SSBM -> Young Link -> WW Link

[Rhubarbo]

I realized that I'd be cool with Toon Link is Link wasn't in, and I guess I'll apporach it like that...

BUT LINK IS IN! GRRR HE SHOULD HAVE HAD AT LEAST A DIFFERENT FINAL SMASH!

[Skillface]

I'm just happy that WW Link is fast as hell.

Look at that guy run!

[Rhubarbo]

Oh, BTW, it has been confirmed that Toon Link's grab is the Hook Shot...

[Thunderslf]

I think Toon Link looks great to play as, but he's definitely a clone. I'll try him out though because I loved Wind Waker and his stage looks fun.

[Rhubarbo]

I think Toon Link looks great to play as, but he's definitely a clone. I'll try him out though because I loved Wind Waker and his stage looks fun.

Yeah, I like the stage. Sometimes I cry inside knowing how unique and great Toon Link's moveset could have been, but then the Dragoon Roost theme cheers me up...then I think of the Deku Leaf.

[DQP]

i was watching a youtube vid that was toon link vs. ganon on the great sea stage, and it looks to me that toon link is a clone of twilight princess link. i wouldn't have imagined it any other way.

[Dark Meta-Knight]

He's a clone. Same moves, same FS, same everything!

[R.Y.N.O]

No No No No No No No No No! Toon Link is not a clone. All you guys are looking at are his b moves. They are different like Ness and Lucas. Might as well call them clones too. Did you not see his a moves and throws. Back throw: uses Wind Waker. Dash a: Uses low sweep. Down smash: Same as Link. Forward Smash:Two part: First one is low sweep. Pops up enemy. Second one is finisher. He is luigified.

[Kittah4]

Toon Link also has an aerial that looks like his down smash, and his dair is like falcon kick only straight down. And it can still multi-hop.

[JoJoRukus]

My definition of a clone in the Smash context is this: Any character that bears a striking resemblance to a pre-existing character in regard to their moves or even their general appearance. So, by my definition, I consider all the characters like Ganondorf, Falco, Wolf, Lucas, Roy and so on to be clones. But does that mean they aren't fun to play? No. Does that mean that they are exactly like who they are cloned from? No. In my opinion, that is a Smash clone, and clones can still be fun.

[Meta-Kirby]

IMO, Toon Link seems to be more powerful than Young Link was, combined with the increased speed from TP Link...

...he's good. Real good.

[jc1sttwin]

CLONE to the very last detail

He even has a Shadow Link costume

[BlazingKatakiri]

Toon Link seems to be a semi-clone in respects to his B-attacks.

B=Hero's Bow (It actually seems like there's no charge on it so it seems more like Falco's laser)

B^=Spin (It's just like Young Link's in terms of reach, but it doesn't go nearly as high)

B>=Boomerang (It's not the Gale Boomerang so technically it's not the exact same attack (no tornado) and his boomerang's nearly as big as he is)

Bv=Bomb (This is definitly a completly cloned move, aside from the cell-shaded smoke)

Aerial Av (It's become more of a ground-pound than Link's attack because it goes straight down. But on the positive side, it has almost no lag even if it hits the floor)

He's much faster than Link and he's floatly as ell, which would make-up for his B^.


I don't see why everyone's trying to blow-up all the negitives when 1. there's barely any. and 2. his positives more than make-up for he negatives & the fact that he's a semi-clone. He seems to be top tier material so does it really matter if he's a clone or not?

[Rhubarbo]

I am aware that Toon Link is probably going to be god tier, but I'd sacrafice that to see my little hero pull off some of his original moves. The Deku Leaf, Wind Waker, Skull Hammer, and Hurricane Spin are part of the charm of Toon Link.

Here's how they could have done him if they had enough time but still keep him a clone:
1) ^Special can be charaged, but when unleashing it, you can move around (Hurricane Spin)
2) This technique wasn't really in the Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass, but it'd still be cool. Toon Link can use his bows after pulling his bomb out to shot a bomb arrow.
3) The boomerang could have emphasized "great" control abilities.
4) His Final Smash should have been different.

If the Toon Link model replaced OoT Link, I'd be okay with it. So, I'll perceive it from that perspective.

[Thunderstorm]

to JoJoRukus..... imo wolf isnt anything like fox or falco...(except the landmaster, but that's a diff story) even his b attacks aren't like fox or falcos. and im really sad about tl, but i heard that his fs was different... a flood or something

[Kujirudo]

Lol @ the guy who's saying that Wolf is a Fox clone :D Those 2 are as much alike as water to fire.

But on-topic, there are a lot of things that Toon Link and Link have in common yes. But for those naive ones under us, you are wrong. Yes, there is a lack of originality in Toon Link, there are some things that could have been better, but still he is not a clone. Most of his moves don't just have different physics, they also have different results. I'm not gonna repeat the special moves again, we all know those by now. But look at his Uair, Utilt, Dair, Nair: they all are different from the real Link. Not so different as you might have hoped but hey: Toon Link is also a version of Link, no wonder they look a bit alike. Wouldn't it be akward to have 2 characters who basicly are the same person but with totally different moves?

[Rhubarbo]

Lol @ the guy who's saying that Wolf is a Fox clone :D Those 2 are as much alike as water to fire.

But on-topic, there are a lot of things that Toon Link and Link have in common yes. But for those naive ones under us, you are wrong. Yes, there is a lack of originality in Toon Link, there are some things that could have been better, but still he is not a clone. Most of his moves don't just have different physics, they also have different results. I'm not gonna repeat the special moves again, we all know those by now. But look at his Uair, Utilt, Dair, Nair: they all are different from the real Link. Not so different as you might have hoped but hey: Toon Link is also a version of Link, no wonder they look a bit alike. Wouldn't it be akward to have 2 characters who basicly are the same person but with totally different moves?

Funny you say that because they aren't the same person lol. They are from the same series of games and have similar roles, but are different characters. Toon Link is just as different from TP Link as Ganondorf and Zelda.

My theory states that the game was rushed because Skaurai would not intentionally give characters the same FS. It's not like Wolf players had to adapt to a new Final Smash, neither Final Smashes or him were in Melee.

[ylink_underestimted]

Toon Link is basically Young Link in a WW model. For me, it doesn't matter if he's a clone or not, I'll still main him.
Again, it's stupid how people say that they hate clones: everyone simply loved Falco's Pillar Combo in Melee.
It's also a bit much to say that Sakurai was being lazy. He's made Brawl into one of the most epic games on the Wii console. In Melee, he said clones were an experiment. Experiment for what? Another Smash game: Mario's got Doc's Fair, Pikachu is just Pichu evolved and not emo, Luigi is still a clone somewhat, and Lucas is basically another Ness with different moves. Furthermore, look at the Star Fox series, they all have the same FS, Wolf suspiciously like Fox, and Falco might still be clone. Same goes for Ganon who might end up being like C. Falcon still, whereas most people thought he'd have a sword. Just because there are some characters with similar movesets, doesn't mean it'll be the end of the world.

[X iLink X]

He is a clone... but I like him like that :) The only real difference in attacks are the boomerang, Bair, and upsmash. And I guess his up-b

[Skillface]

Definitely Luigified. He has the same attacks, but they have different qualities to them.

[ylink_underestimted]

Not all of the attacks are the same, but yeah. Definitely Luigi-fied.

[Skillface]

Yeah, what I meant was the B attacks, the bow/bomb/spin attack/boomerang.

But instead, TL's got a really fast bow, wind waker style explosions and a huge *** boomerang ;)

[ylink_underestimted]

Yup yup thats the cool thing. His aerials are different (does the Dair always do that? I loved YLink's Fire Spike in Melee :()