Ness vs. FUTURE High Tiers

[annoying1359]

Okay, let's face it. Ness won't be top tier. Sorry Simna. And sorry EB360 (wherever you are).

So, how do you think Ness will fare against them? What new/old attacks does Ness have that could be used to counter a character, such as uair against Melee's Fox? What stages might he want to choose?

[Ademisk]

Tetra's ship is my hands down favorite counterpick. The water is perfect for his spike(shed dairs out of water are perfectly timing to hit almost any character with ease, and his dairs in water kill at extremely low %s, something only a couple characters can say besides him.) And in addition the water acts as a buffer to his recovery, though you have to be more careful not to PKT directly into the side of the ship on the left side if you don't wanna die. In addition, the falling ship after the tornado makes it much easier for Ness to get below someone and tailwhip somebody into a followup PKT2.

Delphino Plaza also works, especially against floaty characters like Dedede or Kirby who sometimes like to float just below the bottom floor...can you say spike? Cuz I can, and do, often. The water parts are extremely useful with Ness's spike, just like Tetra's ship, but less avoidable due to the high walls surrounding it. There are also many parts in this level with a walk off level, and Ness's forward air is extremely good at these parts, but don't EVER try this against a Dedede, just avoid geting in front of him on those parts and play it VERY safe.

As for moves, ideally his PKT2 will be his best game evening tool, with its new way of working, it'll be a good way to get low % kills and rack up damage.

Fair is a great move to keep almost anyone away, and it's one of the best pressure moves in the game now, with L-canceling gone. And with reverse aerials(dashing, and then pressing in the opposite direction you're running at the same time that you jump facing the opposite direction you were running) you can mix it up between fairs and bairs with relative ease to work mindgames into your aerial game. Ness's rising aerials also make for mindgames with relative safety.

PK Fire goes a little farther now, and definitely hurts people a lot more(in terms of overall damage and holding power) so it'll be a good move against ranged people, though I don't suggest using this move too often against Meta Knight, as his ability to punish lag is not worth what this move does.

PSI Flash has uses which I have yet to fully explore, more on it later. It won't be a good move for your purposes though.

That's about all I've seen so far.

[Hardcorenesser]

you can use pk thunder to gimp pit's recovery. i did it all the time... it's hilarious. :lol: my friends always yell something like "WTF THAT IS GAY!" or "THAT IS CHEATING YOU *****". try it and you will get a response similar to that, i guaruntee it...

[Ademisk]

.....if you PKT Pit he loses his recovery!?!?!?!!??!?!?!!??!?!?!

[thesage]

I knew this like 2 days after the japanese got the game how did u not know?

Pit can only use his up-b once during the air. You can gimp snake by "grabbing" the parachute thingy and he will fall and not be able to use it again.

[N.OW]

hey dont give up yet. Ness has a chance of high tier. I mean it.

[EToaster]

.....if you PKT Pit he loses his recovery!?!?!?!!??!?!?!!??!?!?!

Only if he's doing his Up-B. If he gets hit while doing it, he can't do it again and loses all his midair jumps.

[Piks]

The thing I don't want Ness to be High Tier like in 64-


NO ITEMS
NESS ONLY
FINAL DESTINATION




Also
Pit seems like he'd be really easy if we could stop his recovery like that, looks like its not as good as we thought. :D

[Ademisk]

Ness is naturally good against Pit too, because of PSI Magnet and his fair's range. It outdoes most of Pit's moves.

[Hardcorenesser]

Ness is naturally good against Pit too, because of PSI Magnet and his fair's range. It outdoes most of Pit's moves.

some... but pit does have swords... he may not be as much of a threat as marth, but it still gets annoying.

[Ademisk]

No it's not. Ness has blue psychic lights of doom. Pretty sure those outclass most swords.

[IrishSheikah]

No it's not. Ness has blue psychic lights of doom. Pretty sure those outclass most swords.

Whats it going to do, Make my eyes tired of looking at it

[annoying1359]

No, it will vaporize your eyes.

[thesage]

Just spam pkt and fair and shield grab and running grab to punish their lag. Pkt2 is also good. There, oh and pick up a secondary that counters Marth, GaW, and MK. I would recomend lucas, but GaW RAPES Lucas badly.

[Hukuzo]

Ness won't be "top tier" because...?

[Ademisk]

Toon Link, Snake, Marth, and G&W

[thesage]

What about meta knight?

[Ademisk]

What about him?

[thesage]

Isn't he a counter?

[Ademisk]

Doesn't mean he'll be high tier. He might be, but that really depends, his meta game hasn't developed to the point where I can say that. Stay on topic.

[thesage]

Well I don't understand why everybody thinks Snake is Ness counter. I played g-reg's snake and all the matches were pretty close and he ended up placing 5th in the tournament. U just have to be mad careful around his nikita. Also, pk fire destroys his d-smash mine.

[Ademisk]

Did he abuse the Gatling combo/Mortar Slide/Upsmash cancelled dash attack? Because that thing is gaytastic. And nobody said Snake was a Ness counter. Nobody. Where did you hear that? I said Snake is probably going to be top tier, at least, as far as we can tell for now.

[Duggish]

Snake will definitly be top tier, if only for his potential at mindgames...his character practically plays as differently as the icies or olimar

but on topic, what can ness do against marth players? so far i just use my fair's range and poke around with pk fire

any tips/tricks?

[Kiki52]

I actually think Snake has a horrible weakness against Ness. Since he is big, he gets caught up in PK fire better. But not only that, when Snake uses his upB to get back on stage, he is very vulnerable to a fully charged PK flash. Snake is a really heavy dude who is hard to fully knock off but a fully charged PK flash is great against Snake. I've killed a level 9 CPU Snake so many times with that move.

Against Marth, he rapes both Ness and Lucas so I am not sure how to go about fighting him.

[Ademisk]

Killing a level 9 is NEVER something to be proud of. Good players won't fall for it anywhere near as often.

Against Marth...you have to kind of pull out some advanced techniques in Melee....thankfully, his range is a lot less in Brawl, but it's sitll too much for Ness. You have to make him think you're going to attack by approaching and then retreating, until he does something stupid and you can punish. PK Thunder is good...but....he can destroy it really easily, so you have to be WAY more careful with it against Marth than against almost anyone else. Running powershield into fsmash works pretty, good, as does a simple ftilt or sh fair.

Marth's a work in progress, let's say.


EDIT: Pivot cancelling


Press forward, and then near the end of your initial dash quickly press backwards and then forwards again. If you time it right, you'll be in a near-standing position automatically(though it won't look like it) and you're be able to do any smash or tilt. It's like wavesmash except you can do a dash attack if you change your mind....or **** up.

[Earthbound360]

Umm yeah, he will :p

[Mushy]

he will what?
(probably be top tier?)

[Earthbound360]

Ahem... *points to sig*

[annoying1359]

Ahem... *points to sig*

EDIT: 2500 POSTS! SMASH MASTERRRR!

[Earthbound360]

I was wondering who you really used. I was expecting Samus, but you changed every time.

Hey, there's something beyond a lord? Heheh, I guess I've got some posting to do again!

[annoying1359]

I main Tabuu. Red Rays of Death ftw.

[Earthbound360]

I see
Well, I guess I am allowed to main primids then. The BIG primids!

[Ademisk]

I was wondering who you really used. I was expecting Samus, but you changed every time.

Hey, there's something beyond a lord? Heheh, I guess I've got some posting to do again!


There's something beyond Master too, isn't there? Too lazy to check.

[annoying1359]

There's something beyond Master too, isn't there? Too lazy to check.

Yep, 5000 posts is something o.O

[Ademisk]

I'll reach it by 2009 easy

[Earthbound360]

See, most users have gotten premium membership or something by the time the get 2500+ posts meaning they can change their "smash (insert adjective here)" title.

Thats why I never knew that there was something more.

[Ademisk]

I'd get it, but I have no idea what I'd make my smash title...>_>

[Earthbound360]

Smash n00b

>_______>

[Ademisk]

Pretty sure somebody's already done that. It's TOO obvious. Someone's got 7000 posts and their title is Smash n00b.

[annoying1359]

I'd make my custom title "Smash Uber n00b"