To all *NEW* Toon Links...

[Aprili]

Sorry if this has been said, I don't play Toon Link nor read his forums, but don't D-air so much. I beat like 6 Toon Links with almost no effort just punishing D-airs. Yeah it's obvious, but, D-air isn't as good as it looks.

Not to be rude. ^^

[deletedmember]

Thank you for that. I couldn't figure out why I lost every match. Now I win them all.

[ShockIce]

So that's why I always die... Thanks for clearing this up!

[Paranoid_Android]

Dair has always been horrible; even with L cancel from Melee. Use it where it presents a golden opportunity, never else. Keep in mind that it CAN spike, but it's likely to be spiking you, not your opponent, if you use it predictably.

[Aprili]

You guys sure love your sarcasm :0 I wasn't trying to be rude, but call attention to a small problem, which is that the D-air sucks. :P if you already knew that, then why are you reading and replying to my thread? Sometimes, people spam it without realizing. This is to call attention to that. I'm only trying to help ^^;

[Kilikan]

siggy has bewbs, I forgive.

[Cooper736]

I forget, doesn't Peach suck in Brawl? I don't know, I heard it somewhere. She appears to be your main, maybe you should stop using her?

Let's discuss practical applications of TL's Dair, which does in fact suck most of the time. I like to use it for recovery, because in my experience, any time I'm thrown up in the air, I usually don't want to stay there. I fight lots of Ikes who spam Aether, so I prefer to run the risk of getting hit by an F-tilt rather than an Aether than combos into an F-tilt.

Spiking is also nice, though you run the risk of an embarrassing suicide.

[uberdylan]

Sorry, can you guys use just a little more sarcasm? I don't think we have quite enough yet.

D-Air is a powerful move, especially into a crowd, and can be a very good spike if you know your opponent won't dodge. Spamming it in 1-on-1 is stupid.

[NESSBOUNDER]

Of course Down Air is punishable and can get you in a bad situation.

That's why you should learn to do it from a footstool jump instead! :D

[Ichida]

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'm having fun with my dairs. The amount of attacks I've been able to outprioritize is just amazing, as will be evident in the YouTubed matches I'm uploading today.

[$nuggles]

Ummm... wow what an obvious statement. The dair doesn't suck though, it all depends on how you use it. Obviously if you spam it it's bad, anyone smart enough can see that. Not helpful at all. I use dairs as a a mindgame to throw timing off. This thread is pretty much "I think dair sucks so I'll try to make new TL's stop using it since I hate it so much."

[JBOMB]

It's a spike that takes a fair amount of skill to pull off, and is pretty combo-friendly, but I would not use it coming in from above (in most cases).

[Massive Attack]

Ummm... wow what an obvious statement. The dair doesn't suck though, it all depends on how you use it. Obviously if you spam it it's bad, anyone smart enough can see that. Not helpful at all. I use dairs as a a mindgame to throw timing off. This thread is pretty much "I think dair sucks so I'll try to make new TL's stop using it since I hate it so much."

^ This.

any attack is awful if poorly timed or spammed in a bad situation. the game is to adapt. and sometimes the dair is what you need to adapt. just my 2 cents.

an instance where i've noticed dair shines is against an opponent who is loving his shield button a bit too much. jump over em with a bomb in hand, bomb drop to force them to shield, and dair immediately following after. normally the shield is reduced enough that you can get the first dair hit in. and the 2nd one follows. if not he shields the first and you bounce and land with the 2nd. i think it's a great way to get some surprise hits in before he notices what is happening and learns to spot dodge against you.

[maus]

Unfortunately cpu opponents are TERRIBLE at predicting Dair and I've gotten into a bad habit of using it way too much. Still, against certain opponents it works wonders when you use it wisely. Great way to take down jugglers and the bomb throw to Dair is beautiful when it works. I generally prefer it when recovering from an up smash.

Any tips on aerial recovery aside from Dair?

[NeptunerAV]

Unfortunately cpu opponents are TERRIBLE at predicting Dair and I've gotten into a bad habit of using it way too much. Still, against certain opponents it works wonders when you use it wisely. Great way to take down jugglers and the bomb throw to Dair is beautiful when it works. I generally prefer it when recovering from an up smash.

Any tips on aerial recovery aside from Dair?

Yeah I agree, cpu's have been making me spam dair as well.

I guess you could recover by air-dodging on the way down....I don't think there's anything else you could do =/.

Turn yourself into a suicide bomber? ehh.

[Aprili]

Lol, so much flaming going on. I'm sorry, from now on I'll keep my advice to myself. Just play some TL's online, you'll notice that many of them DO spam the d-air.

And lol @ the comment saying I just hate D-air. Keep spamming it, I really don't mind, I'll just win as Peach, a low tier character who is countered by your top tier character. Makes me laugh, knowing that I *should* be losing.

And yes, the D-air does suck. It has 2 situations, on and off the map. On the map, F-air or B-air will always be better, as they do similar damage, with better knockback for comboing, and the ability to follow it up. Off the map, you can spike, but a good opponent will air dodge and get you both killed, because they'll know that if they get spiked they lose anyways. Maybe if it could sweet spot the edge it'd be nice, but otherwise, there are better options for almost any situation.

For eating shields, you can grab. For comboing, it's lol. For recovering from mid-air, well, TL's aerial game is so incredible that you should rejoice when the fight is in the air. For punishing, you can't follow up on it. And for spiking, there is a very large chance that you will die from it as well.

If *YOU* don't spam the d-air, then you have no reason to read and reply to my thread. It's like you take offense to the fact that I'm pointing out what many of your character's players do. If you don't, then what I say doesn't apply to you, so you should feel good about yourself knowing that your game has evolved beyond that point. Many people's games haven't. There's no need to flame me for offering some constructive criticism.

[StealthBug]

wow this is hilarious, its like kids fighting over toys.

D-air is a failure upon failures.
I cant remember a single situation i have seen the D-air and not been able to dodge and punish it. He lands, and sits there for about 3 years screaming at you "KILL ME KILL ME!!!!" not to mention that if you try to spike someone with it, you most likely will end up spiking yourself, and probably spiking yourself better than they could spike you.


If you get hit by it, and killed by it, you deserved it, and most likely were an idiot in the first place to get into that position.

Toon link has the massive advantage of being able to suicide like no one else. The d-air sucks, it cant be followed up with anything but you looking at your opponent as they hit you off the stage, if you miss, your screwed in all situations, it has no AOE ability, and not to mention, the Fair and the Bair are better in every way.


now lets not cry and scream about the fact that Toon Link, a VERY high tier character and VERY powerful character, has ONE sucky move.

[-Aether]

The D-air isn't even that bad. It's hard to punish if you use it remotely correctly. If your opponent is in the air and so are you, it's likely that you'll be able to D-air, hit the ground, and get back to neutral position before they're able to punish you. Especially in certain situations. It also eats shields.

Maybe your idiot opponents should stop D-airing off stages, or when you're standing on the ground waiting to spot dodge them.

[StealthBug]

remotely use it? like what? use it when ur enemy is 100 ft away? doesnt that defeat the perpose?

use it in the air? why not use something that you can follow up? like Bair? if ur both in the air, its better to combo then to spike at the ground and do nothing after...


im not sure what kind of noobs YOUR playing my friend but it apears you dont know what your saying... perhaps playing more Toon Link and less Ike will work for ya?


seriously XD this is hillarious

[Phoenix~Lament]

Dair is not necessarily a BAD move, just very, very overrated.

It's a really good spike, when used correctly. Otherwise, it has horrendous lag :\

[-Aether]

You're an idiot if you think a move has NO uses. Obviously toon link has a ton of good aerials, but D-air has uses. The kind of noobs I'm playing are the kind of newbs that are in TA, you know..the best crew on the east coast?

Check my location. The MD/VA scene has 5 of the top 10 smashers in the nation in it. Chudat, KM, Chillin, Azen. These people show up to smashfests about 45 minutes south of here. Besides that, I play with the..oh, 300 people who showed up to Pound 3, one of the largest community sponcered tournaments located at UMBC, which is about 20 minutes from Towson, which is where I go to school.

D-air has uses; particularly because of it's speed in a game where a character FFing is no where close to the speed at which D-air moves. If you cant see that, you're blind. If you don't agree with my above uses, any time you Footstool jump an opponent, D-air is basically the best choice, unless you're off the stage.

I rest my case. D-air has atleast one use. EVERY move has one use, even for someone who is uncreative to the max.

[NESSBOUNDER]

remotely use it? like what? use it when ur enemy is 100 ft away? doesnt that defeat the perpose?

use it in the air? why not use something that you can follow up? like Bair? if ur both in the air, its better to combo then to spike at the ground and do nothing after...


im not sure what kind of noobs YOUR playing my friend but it apears you dont know what your saying... perhaps playing more Toon Link and less Ike will work for ya?


seriously XD this is hillarious

I'll say it again because everybody ignores me.

Footstool jump to Dair.

unblockable, fast, deadly.

[MIRN]

Proper DAir usage can be a part of any TL's mind-game repertoire. I've been able to do a BAir+BAir+DAir combo, or the often discussed bomb throw down+DAir, or footstool+DAir. The trick is to use it sparingly so people are not really sure when to expect it; I have the same philosophy for TL's spin blade, another overused move on wifi.

Most random people who play on wifi are not that great. Shall I tell you of the Peaches I see who consistently use Peach Bomber, which I block, and then own them? That move has a lot of lag as well. Yes, many Link/TL users online spam DAir- but that does not make it a useless move. It's only useless if you don't know how to use it properly.

[Massive Attack]

also to those guys referring to tiers...
it's a bit early to be referring to where characters lie on a tier-list when one hasn't been defined yet. the game is still fairly new. i really hope people aren't picking mains at this point based on who they hear is "top tier", play who you want.

dair is not completely useless, if you're so good at reading and punishing it. then kudos to you.

[Aprili]

Ok, you win... d-air has one use. That still doesn't mean it should be spammed. The point of my post was to tell new players to the game or new to Toon Link that there are better options than the D-air for *ALMOST* every situation. If you like at the original post, I mentioned nothing about it being a useless move.

@Massive Attack: it is early, in my opinion as well, to start judging characters based on a tier list. But it is also going to have to happen sometime, and you can pretty much guess where characters like Toon Link, Marth, Olimar, etc will be on the tier list. And many people are picking characters like TL because of that (I believe Yuna is). It's the world of competitive gaming :P

[jqa5033]

Sorry, can you guys use just a little more sarcasm? I don't think we have quite enough yet.

D-Air is a powerful move, especially into a crowd, and can be a very good spike if you know your opponent won't dodge. Spamming it in 1-on-1 is stupid.

I just became a Toon Link player and i use Dair alot but with combination of a diagonal thrown Boomerang or when dropping Bombs from the air to stop Punishing blows that would hurt Dair but i would not say it sucks and i believe toon link is great 1-on-1 using this ability its just his ability to spam ranged items with his quick attacks that makes toon link quite playable.

Also it could be because i have not played named players here so it also could be luck ;).

[Toon Link is god!]

Dair is not good at all if your facing real opponents they can easily predict where you land and easily roll out of the way the only one time i can think of using it is when someones off the edge and you Diar on their head then up B to the ledge but thats extremely risky and probably not adviced

[DQP]

THAT's why I suck... thanx!

[MoldinMindz]

The dair is a great spike, just learn how to set it up .

[c4pt41n 0l1m4r]

Wait!, hold up, you beat 6! toon links. OMG that's like all the new nuby toon linkers coming in now. It's sure good you're here to help them with TL, considering you're an expert.

But all seriousness..........stfu, to me this post thread screams "****, that TL dair is so powerful i can't beat it, maybe if i go onto the TL forums and tell them to stop using it so much, maybe me and my sucka$$ peach can win!".

[c4pt41n 0l1m4r]

remotely use it? like what? use it when ur enemy is 100 ft away? doesnt that defeat the perpose?

use it in the air? why not use something that you can follow up? like Bair? if ur both in the air, its better to combo then to spike at the ground and do nothing after...


im not sure what kind of noobs YOUR playing my friend but it apears you dont know what your saying... perhaps playing more Toon Link and less Ike will work for ya?


seriously XD this is hillarious

wow, somebody should punch you square in the f****** face. You really need to learn how to stfu.

[Aprili]

Wait!, hold up, you beat 6! toon links. OMG that's like all the new nuby toon linkers coming in now. It's sure good you're here to help them with TL, considering you're an expert.

But all seriousness..........stfu, to me this post thread screams "****, that TL dair is so powerful i can't beat it, maybe if i go onto the TL forums and tell them to stop using it so much, maybe me and my sucka$$ peach can win!".

Um... did you even read the rest of the thread? Good job, someone already said almost the exact same thing you did.

And if you wanna spam D-air, be my guest. Me and my sucka$$ Peach will keep winning just punishing your lag. Not my problem. If I was gonna ***** about Toon Link, I'd ***** about how he has such potential in terms of combos and offensive play, yet people just use him like a campy ho because that's easier and it's too good in this game, so his main strategy is run away poking you with projectiles like a coward til you're at 100%+ then come in for a killing move.

Sounds like... oh wait... half the cast of Brawl. Believe me, if I wanted to complain, it would not be about the D-air. I think I've been hit by it like... once. When your character can win just by running away, a move with that much lag + the momentum shift just gives your opponent an opportunity to attack.

Since, for some reason, I get flamed for trying to offer constructive criticism to a problem that is there (don't believe me? play some new Toon Links), I'll just get it all out at once and leave you rabid Toon fans to yourselves. If you wanna win as Toon Link, just learn how to defend. Once you can shield or dodge most things efficiently, get better aim with your projectiles. Then, run away and spam those. Anytime someone gets close to you, RAR a b-air (or just SH B-air if they're behind you) then combo them until they drop, then run away and spam more projectiles. I guarantee you that's what the "best" Toon Links will do, and they'll be winning lots of tournaments for it. And no, I did not lose to any Toon Links. There's no need to make excuses to make me seem wrong.

P.S.: If you have anything else you wanna bring up (besides mindless flaming) then you can contact me through AIM or MSN. For now, if this is how idiotic the Toon Link boards are... I'll be gone. If you're gonna come on here, though, stop trolling and start contributing.

The quality of these boards has dropped so much since Brawl...

[WakerofWinds]

Projectiles and aerials are what TL does best, if you don't understand that then get over it.

That being said, TL is a very good character in range and close combat, as well as in the air. his Dair is just one of his moves that can do damage, yes, new Toon Links will have to learn not to use Dair, but all this topic does is anger people, rather then help.

I appreciate your effort though... it was a nice try.

[Niko90]

Now now children...

And in response to the "the quality of these boards has dropped so much since brawl..." who are you to say that? You joined 3 months ago! I joined 4 months ago and although I'm here almost everyday, I don't know much about these boards. I'm not another mindless flamer, in case you were about to "backflame" me - which, if you want to, you may, because it's quite hilarious. :D

Dair is a good move that can go very very wrong. It is something that is supposed to be used at certain times, not the move to strive to use. I think that is pretty much the decision among most of us so I suggest we carry on.

[Kilikan]

OP made her point, you people cried and posted the same thing as the poster above you 9000 times. point made both ways, now can we move on and let a thread with some actual relevance and importance occupy this space?

[ylink_underestimted]

im not sure what kind of noobs YOUR playing my friend but it apears you dont know what your saying... perhaps playing more Toon Link and less Ike will work for ya?

Yes, because someone's avatar and name has to do with everything in they're gameplay. Just because I have a monkey with a gun doesn't mean I choose Diddy Kong all the time.

To everyone that thinks they're flaming Aprili: Your just making yourself look like a n00b. All she/he said was don't spam o_O

[nonamedn00b]

Awww but I likey spamming down air. I does alot of damage and if your opponents on the ground it knocks them up. And it's not very easy to punish unless your like dash attack distance away yet close at the same time or if your in the air because it can also push back opponents.

[daytimeninja]

Dair is actually really good, just not when your opponent knows when you're going to do it...

[mrbr0wn1e]

I've used Dair to spike two opponents when playing in crowd, since if connects the first hit, it hops again, it's really useful.

[Zenonfury]

It's a decent move when done correctly. Although trying to spike and suiciding sucks...a lot haha