The range on this kid?

[AphoticBankai]

So, my brother was playing Toon Link, and I was my Zelda. I beat him,but compared to when he played Diddy and Falco (he couldn't get a life off me) he brought me down to one life. So I try beating him as sonic, and he actually beat me. Twice. Couldn't believe it, but I did realize my problem. I could NOT get around that sword. He would press A so much and just spam the hell out of it, and I could not get around it Rolling around him - still got hit. Trying to shield grab, I was too far away to grab him. I had no clue how the hell to get around this thing. Rolling behind him then shield grabbing worked, but I mean, he's not stupid. He recognizes a pattern eventually.

So I try playing as Marth, thinking hell, I'll kick his *** by beating out his range. And HOLY CRAP. He was getting the hits. At times his range was LONGER. I would attack, miss, he would attack and hit. I couldn't believe my eyes. I lost =\

Just to make sure I wasn't just becoming sucky, I try ZSS. I owned him. He couldn't touch me now that my range was longer. So there's that. I went back to Zelda for a while, got a little better, but still...Then I tried Toon Link and owned him; fighting fire with fire. Since I actually could do more than just spam A =\.

Is the range REALLY that huge? It doesn't look like it should be...

And any tips for getting inside of it? It was driving me insane.

Thanks

[the wet mop]

are you seriously telling me all he did was spam A? because that should have been easy to punish as marth with counter or >B. anyways. maybe you were exaggerating, but there are plenty of ways to beat someone who simply spams jabs. maybe some aerials would help?

[Fire52388]

TL's range doesn't suck but it certainly isn't that long. Marth definitely outranges TL as does Link. I have no idea what you were doing but range wasn't you problem with Marth. That. . . and if you're brother was spamming A why not just do something new instead of rolling around on the ground where you can get hit. TL on the ground isn't that hard to avoid if you know what you're doing. Just work around whatever move he's spamming.

[AphoticBankai]

Alright, note to self, Smash Boards takes everything seriously.

No, he was not -just- spamming A. He was very proficient with Upsmash and (although I find it hard to believe) uptilt, as well as down smash for any rolls. I'd try and airdodge the upsmash but the lag was so great upon landing he'd immediately hit downsmash and I'd be sent back up in the air.

By "spamming A" I meant spamming A moves, not literally just jab. jabjab. Jabittyjabjab. No, he was just able to hit me every time I tried to get something on him.

The only two times he was able to beat me were if I used Sonic or Marth, and I just don't know what the problem was with Marth. SO many times I'd do a short hop and slash down at him, miss, and he'd do an upsmash at the same time and send me flying. I couldn't comprehend it at all.

My game is more in the air than on the ground, since I play Sonic and Zelda most, so aerials weren't the problem. I just couldn't get around that **** sword efficiently. Sure, it's not like he completely kept me out of his hitbox, it was just so often.

[Drack]

TL's reach is longer than most, but not the longest. He has a sword, but doesn't get as much out of it as some other characters.

For example, Metaknight's sword is longer. Try hitting the bombs in Green Greens without getting hit by the explosion. MK can do it with dtilt and ftilt. I have not been able to do it with Toon Link. It could be that MK has a more disjointed hitbox.

[Supax]

He was spamming an entire button??? lol...

You guys probably don't try to outsmart each other, because it seems like you just play casually, but that is probably why you were losing. You need to try to not only out-play your opponent, but outsmart them as well. If you just try to spam attacks and rush each other then the scores will be inconsistent and it will come down to what characters counter each other... Learn your characters strengths and learn how to counter each character, or atleast play well against them so that you are prepared for every matchup..

Toon Link, doesn't have terrible range on him, but it certainly isn't amazing.. He is more reliant on projectiles and aerial combos, no really the range of his sword. Sure, he does out range most projectile characters, but characters like Marth and Ike both out range him as far as the length of their sword... Just practice against certain characters that you play worse against until you are used to their weaknesses..

[Eddy01741]

My advice, use Ike, since he has more range than Marth (he has one of the longest ranges), and punish him for spamming smashes.


No, but seriously, TL has a deceptively good range. Meaning it looks small, but it's actually decent. It definitely ain't as long as Marth's though.

[Fire52388]

Well I think your problem with marth was just that down air. To take advantage of your longer range as marth I would do tilts and smashes on the ground with him or even his over b combos.

[AphoticBankai]

He was spamming an entire button??? lol...

You guys probably don't try to outsmart each other, because it seems like you just play casually, but that is probably why you were losing. You need to try to not only out-play your opponent, but outsmart them as well. If you just try to spam attacks and rush each other then the scores will be inconsistent and it will come down to what characters counter each other... Learn your characters strengths and learn how to counter each character, or atleast play well against them so that you are prepared for every matchup..

Toon Link, doesn't have terrible range on him, but it certainly isn't amazing.. He is more reliant on projectiles and aerial combos, no really the range of his sword. Sure, he does out range most projectile characters, but characters like Marth and Ike both out range him as far as the length of their sword... Just practice against certain characters that you play worse against until you are used to their weaknesses..

No no and no again. Don't assume so much.

I don't just "rush in" and use attacks. That's very much what he does, I've just never played against a toon link before. After I played about 4-5 matches with him he even said himself "OK you're owning me again" and the range on that little guy's sword was just mind boggling to me.

As I said, he doesn't think about what moves to use, he just spams random junk. Unfortunately, that makes it harder in my opinion. Ever played against someone who really doesn't know what their doing in a strategy game you're amazing at? You predict they'll do one thing because that's what most people do, and htey don't do it. Because they don't know about it.

For instance, he would forget about his bombs and hold them. I would sit there and stay back from him, waiting to use Naryu's Love the instant a bomb was thrown, but he wouldn't do that. He'd just rush at me, which would take me by surprise and start trying to smash me off. That bomb would go off, injuring us both, but Zelda being more floaty wouldn't recover first hten he'd continue to smash me. Like I -said- I ended up beating him with everyone but Marth and Sonic, and I haven't played as sonic very much lately, and I've only played as marth like 3 times before. So yeah =\




No, but seriously, TL has a deceptively good range. Meaning it looks small, but it's actually decent. It definitely ain't as long as Marth's though.

Ah, you chose the right words for me, I just couldn't come up with them. Yes, this is exactly what I mean. I would stand what I found to be a safe spot outside his range and I'd be right at the tip of his sword which would own my ***.

With practice that's easily remedied since I can just get used to the range. But still. Thank you

[eodeth]

He was spamming an entire button??? lol...

You guys probably don't try to outsmart each other, because it seems like you just play casually, but that is probably why you were losing. You need to try to not only out-play your opponent, but outsmart them as well. If you just try to spam attacks and rush each other then the scores will be inconsistent and it will come down to what characters counter each other... Learn your characters strengths and learn how to counter each character, or atleast play well against them so that you are prepared for every matchup..

Toon Link, doesn't have terrible range on him, but it certainly isn't amazing.. He is more reliant on projectiles and aerial combos, no really the range of his sword. Sure, he does out range most projectile characters, but characters like Marth and Ike both out range him as far as the length of their sword... Just practice against certain characters that you play worse against until you are used to their weaknesses..



wtf are you to say, new guy, he almost is just all about aerials but when on the ground he goes slightly faster [less range] but thats why he wins so much , i am very good with him and every toon link user i have faced is good with him in some sort of way ,but i know combos and other stuff xD ;)


and sadly marth and ike do out range him thats why tl users like myself have problems but its still resolved during the battle and you find a way around it
his up-b recovery is overpowered [not the power, but the recovery] with a bomb in hand you can do the go under, to the other side battlefield thing

but, all around, no his range doesnt seem good but its great

like olimar with a purple pikmin [maybe a little better

[MIRN]

My best friend plays as Zelda, and is extremely proficient with her, so we have many intense Zelda vs. Toon Link battles. When fighting on the ground, Zelda's upsmash and uptilts are the greatest assets for her, although TL is short and is harder to catch into them. Besides, if he's spamming attacks randomly, sitting back and spamming Din's Fire with the occasional Fsmash would probably work best- if he's as bad as you say, then he would not be very good at blocking it.

[Stimpy]

Toon Link's range is pretty good. But you couldn't beat him with Marth?...Marth's sword is at least twice as big as TL's little sword. Next time you're Marth spacing is they key to beat TL. dtilt to SH double fairs to fsmash.


It's really that easy with Marth.

[-Aether]

Toon Link is the only character ever, in the history of Smash, 64 and melee included, to have disjointed hitboxes on EVERY SINGLE ONE of his moves. Including grabs.

Link had N-air and B-air as regular attacks, he still does. These have been replaced on T. link by disjointed hitboxes. I think the problem with T. Link is not that he has amazing range, but he has above average range, and every single one of his attacks has range. This gives him so many options...