PXG's Toon Link Match Up Description Thread (sticky please)

[PXG]

I haven't seen any threads here that give any detailed analysis of how to use Toon Link against the other characters in the game. So I took it upon myself to start one, since the other character boards have already started work for their characters.

I will be sure to update this post and include my own input as well as information from you guys. Also, I will be sure to make cool graphics and banners for this post (when I get the time). I am sure some of you have been to my signature thread here.

I will be using a number system to indicate the match ups. The system will use numbers 1 through 5. 1 being a match where Toon Link will dominate, and 5 being a match where Toon Link will be have a very tough time.

1 - You should have no trouble at all. This is an easy victory

2 - You have the edge, yet you will have to put some effort if you want to win.

3 - This is a pretty even match. It will be somewhat tough to win, but you still have a good chance. You may counter pick, but that isn't really necessary.

4 - You are at a disadvantage. Victory will be very difficult. Smart, patient and well timed actions will at least increase your chances of winning. However, counter picking is highly suggested

5 - This character is extremely difficult to fight. DO NO USE TOON LINK!!! Counter pick immediately.

Anyway, lets begin.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/mario/mario_s.jpg

Mario -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/luigis.png

Luigi - (4)

Luigi is a pain. He is beatable, but you must pick your moves VERY carefully, and not mess up. A wrong move could lead to grabs, aerial combos or fire punches. Luig is very VERY quick. His sidestep is extremely fast and is followed up by grabs (down throws to aerial combos), down smash, forward smash or fire punch.

Luigi loves the air. He can do many consecutive aerials, all of which are powerful, have a lot of priorty and lead into even more aerials. He racks up damage very quick, so watch out. The d smash hits you away, and gets you in the air, so quickly pull out a bomb or a boomerang to keep him at bay.

Luigi's f smash can actually be aimed in three directions: downwards, middle and upwards. This move is meant for killing, and if aimed downwards, can kill you at 90% or so. Its usually done at close range, after consecutive sidesteps. Your d smash can be easily dodged by Luigi, so the only thing you can do at such close range, against such speed, is your up B.

Toon Link is a very aggressive character. But against Luigi, who has a speed, power and priorty, your best bet is to use projectiles at long range. His fireballs are used as distractions. Don't pay much attention to them. Just sheild them and counter with with bombs. Your down smash, especially your foward smash, leave you wide open. his fire punch can kill you in the high 70's low 80's.

If he uses his foward B (Green Missile) to recovery, punish him with a fair. But, watch out. there is a 12.5% chance that it could missfire. If you get hit, it will do a MASSIVE damage and knock back. It can kill you at low pefecentages. I've died as low as being in the 40% range.

If you attempt to do aerial moves, make sure you space yourself far enough so that the tip of your sword hits him. Remember, spacing, projectiles, conservative use of smashes and patience will increase your chances of victory. Failure of any one of those, you are pretty much screwed.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/peach/peach_s.jpg

Peach -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/bowser/bowser_s.jpg

Bowser -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/donkeykong/donkeykong_s.jpg

Donkey Kong -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/diddykong/diddykong_s.jpg

Diddy Kong -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/yoshi/yoshi_s.jpg

Yoshi -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/wario/wario_s.jpg

Wario -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/link/link_s.jpg

Link -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/zelda/zelda_s.jpg

Zelda - (3)

This is will be a close match. Zelda is not to be trifled with. She got A LOT better from Melee. She has a lot range, power and priority.

She may look slow, but she is quick. Like Dedede or Ike, her running speed is low, but she has a very good defense to offense game. Her grabs have a lot of range and do a considerable damage. (WIP) Will finish later.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/sheik/sheik_s.jpg

Sheik -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/dorfs.png

Ganondorf -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/toons.png

Toon Link

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/samus/samus_s.jpg

Samus -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/zerosuit_samus/zerosuit_samus_s.jpg

Zero Suit Samus -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/pit/pit_s.jpg

Pit -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/iceclimbers/iceclimbers_s.jpg

Ice Climbers -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/robs.png

R.O.B. -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/kirby/kirby_s.jpg

Kirby -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/metaknight/metaknight_s.jpg

Metaknight -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/kingdedede/kingdedede_s.jpg

King Dedede - (4)

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/pikmin/pikmin_s.jpg

Olimar - (5)

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/fox/fox_s.jpg

Fox -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/falcos.png

Falco -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/wolfs.png

Wolf -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/cptfalcons.png

Captain Falcon -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/pikachu/pikachu_s.jpg

Pikachu -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/squirtles.png

Squirtle -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/ivysaurs.png

Ivysaur -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/charizards.png

Charizard -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/lucarios.png

Lucario -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/puffs.png

Jigglypuff -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/marths.png

Marth - (3)

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/ike/ike_s.jpg

Ike - (2)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/nesss.png

Ness -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/lucas/lucas_s.jpg

Lucas -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/PXG/gws.png

Mr. Game & Watch - (3)

Projectiles....G&W hates them. Since they're not energy based, he can't use the bucket to absorb them. Don't spam them, but use them as you jumping away to keep him off balance, and than rush in for dash, up smash, bair/ fair combos. G&W is good and quite annoying for Toon Link, but Toon Link does have the edge.

Watch out for the turtle and the key. The turtle has hit stun has does a lot of damage. The key is quick has two hits

1) the downward strike
2) when it hits the ground, it has a "shockwave" effect that hurts you if you're too close to it.

Its also hard to tell when his sidestep starts and ends. I recommend using d smash or up B. Also, make sure you get your fast falls and shielding down. Especailly the sheild. DO NOT LET GO. G&W has lot of areral priority, and he can keep you in the air with his u air. His attacks have long frames (f smash for instance) and you will think they are over before they really are.

That's pretty much it. You should do very well with those techniques.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/snake/snake_s.jpg

Snake -

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/sonic/sonic_s.jpg

Sonic - (1)

[VVayfarer]

Ike - 1. Toon Link is fast and it's easy to just spam bair against Ike, and he wont give Ike a chance to attack by spamming projectiles.

[Kairace]

Ike - 1. Toon Link is fast and it's easy to just spam bair against Ike, and he wont give Ike a chance to attack by spamming projectiles.

Not neccisarly. Ike's range is amazing and can be hard to deal with against a good Ike.

Personally.........I'd say a 2

[PXG]

My first input. Luigi.......All of my input is based off IRL matches with other competitive Smashers. WiFi is too laggy and unreliable and CPUS...well.....that's obvious.

[VVayfarer]

Not neccisarly. Ike's range is amazing and can be hard to deal with against a good Ike.

Personally.........I'd say a 2

I main TL and second Ike, and I can only say...

... If Ike isn't 1, no one is.

[PXG]

I say Ike is a 2. He can get you, if you're not paying attention. Toon Link's projectiles and agility make it hard for Ike to connect. But Ike's range is ridiculous, and will get unsuspecting players.

I play against A LOT of Ikes and am friends with a Ike mainer who is reasonably good with him. I will update the OP with my input later.

[King Zeal]

G&W should be a 4 or 5, I think. His close-range speed is phenomenal against TL. Toon Link has the edge in projectiles, but the majority of G&W's smashes can kill TL at a fairly mediocre percentage.

D-smash = The Devil!

[PXG]

I posted this in another thread:

Projectiles....G&W hates them. Since they're not energy based, he can't use the bucket to absorb them. Don't spam them, but use them as you jumping away to keep him off balance, and than rush in for dash, up smash, bair/ fair combos. G&W is good and quite annoying for Toon Link, but Toon Link does have the edge.

Watch out for the turtle and the key. The turtle has hit stun has does a lot of damage. The key is quick has two hits

1) the downward strike
2) when it hits the ground, it has a "shockwave" effect that hurts you if you're too close to it.

Its also hard to tell when his sidestep starts and ends. I recommend using d smash or up B. Also, make sure you get your fast falls and shielding down. Especailly the sheild. DO NOT LET GO. G&W has lot of areral priority, and he can keep you in the air with his u air. His attacks have long frames (f smash for instance) and you will think they are over before they really are.

That's pretty much it. You should do very well with those techniques.

[King Zeal]

Ha. Unfortunately, I know a lot of that, now. (Didn' t know about the splash damage from G&W's d-air, though). Unfortunately, this comes after a G&W took me out of a recent tourney.

Thanks, though. I look forward to your formal matchup.


EDIT: P.S. -- Do you mind if I add you to my buddies on MSN?

[Kairace]

I'd say sheik at 3 as well.

Her grabbing pisses me off.

[MIRN]

I agree about Zelda. My best friend plays as Zelda as I probably have the most Brawl experience versus his excellent Zelda than any other character. Our matches are pretty even, and it's not uncommon for one of us to win because something stupid happened to the other person (e.g. suicides.)

I cannot stress enough to not DAir spam a good Zelda. Her Upsmash, Uptilt, and UpAir will all out-prioritize DAir, and kill you at low percentages (especially her UpAir, not even uncommon to die at ~83% from it.)

Overall, I think Sheik is much less of a challenge than Zelda, but I hardly ever play versus Sheiks...my friend is starting to learn her, and I've been having problems, but mainly from not being used to Brawl Sheik, I think. The needles can and will hurt you, and our faster than any of our projectiles, so I have actually found that being more aggressive versus Sheik is advantageous.

My other really good friend plays Peach, and has since Melee, where he was amazing at her. Now that he has become acclimated to Brawl Peach, Peach is actually an issue, when I thought she would not be. A good Peach will always beat you on the ground, and although projectiles help, you will not be able to do much else to throw her off. I have found that grabbing a lot works, especially since her dash attack is so good and hence many Peaches will use it. Peach Bomber is buffed, but if you time it right hookshot grab > Peach bomber. Some of her aerials have deceptive range, and beware of her FAir, it's quite strong. Though she has nothing near the killing power of Zelda, she makes up for it in speed and recovery. Speaking of, chasing a floating Peach is a good thing, although a really good Peach can get around that, or go far enough off-stage that you'll suicide trying to tech chase. :embarrass

In closing, I agree with Zelda being an even match (3) and I think a good Peach should be, as well. Once again, these are my experiences with my friends who are very proficient at their characters, and I play versus them quite a bit.

As for other characters, I cannot recall having too many issues with other ones. I could see a really good Falco or Olimar being a major issue. I'm actually learning Falco now myself (he's very fun), but I do not know anyone who mains him right now.

[PXG]

I will add more to the Zelda match up as well as others later. Right now, I'm working on a new Toon Link and Wolf sig for moi.

EDIT --

Wow, my G&W is so horribly written. I did type it when I was half asleep. So many stupid errors in spelling and grammar.

[daytimeninja]

really great post.

For wolf, you could say something along the lines of "Hard to RAR and aerial due to fast fsmash and dsmash"

I would automaticaly say wolf is ranked a 5. I'm a pretty good TL player, but I find it VERY hard to beat a good wolf.

[PXG]

I keep on hearing that Wolf is a counter to Toon Link. I play as both characters, but I have yet to able to play one against the other (at least someone who is good with either of them). IRL, I can't find a Toon Link that is as good as mine or a Wolf that is as good as mine. :(

[the melon!!!!!]

I agree with all of the posted, and I would like to make a submission. I would put a 4 or a 5 on Meta Knight due how fast his moves come out. The only move TL has that can come close to MK's speed is his Nair and his Bair maybe. You can't combo someone senseless when they can stop it with a simple Nair or Fair, and both can send TL into perfect position for a string of combos and eventually death. I would know, since a guy uses him in my crew, and neither me nor the other TL player can beat him, and we are on basically even levels with him.

P.S. I would rate vs. Wolf a 3, an even match.

[w3bhead]

Regarding Wolf, I have a friend who isn't even near the same skill that I am at who yet manages to consistently put up a great fight with Wolf and on some occasions actually beat me. Wolf's great fsmash range, dsmash and ability to reflect projectiles make him very dangerous against tlink. His slow recovery is something that can be gimped w/ bair or projectiles so overall I would give wolf a 4. As far as I can tell tlink beats Wolf in the air so be sure to grab lots and combo in the air, but be weary of Wolf's ground game.

[Frank The Tank]

Yeah I'd put MK at a 4 or 5 as well. And I actually think Marth might be a 4 also due to his extra range on his sword. I have trouble against him w/ TL.


Oh and I seem to be one of the few that's been acquainted with a good Wario, but I'd put him at a 2 probably. Even though he's not even on your list X_X

[Crizthakidd]

good thread man. imcomplete but cant wait to see the outcome

for my G&W is a little hard so is ike if u make a mistake its a KO at 25% T_________T

[Phoenix~Lament]

As a sidenote I think you should take Toon Link off the list, since what you're trying to do is point at certain different aspects of each character and compare them to see who has the upper hand in a 1v1 match. All technical, one Toon Link is the exact same as another Toon Link - it's only the user that's different.

So take him off, if you get what I mean, since you can't exactly compare on a 1-5 scale. It's about skill, not character advantage and so doesn't belong here.

[Cooper736]

You are taking care to look in this (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159736) thread, correct? Though it's still new, it has some useful information.

Also, I wouldn't say Olimar is a 5. In my opinion, he's a 4 at best. As far as I've seen, he has poo range with his Pikmin (poison is an exception), and is only really dangerous at close range. He doesn't have a very good air game, which means he will never be able to take the sky away from TL. The only thing you have to watch out for is him getting behind you, where he can wreak havoc before you can escape. Arrow spamming is good, because sometimes you'll hit through the Pikmin, and he can't hit you back from a distance.

[PXG]

The more detail and information the better. The other thread is "okay", but it doesn't really elaborate as to why some characters are hard to beat or what can be done to counter them.

Anything on this list is subject to change and is a work in progress. Nothing is definite or finalized. I will continue to do more research and play matches against other people myself. I will do more write ups later today.

EDIT -

Who the hell edited my post? Its completely messed up. God ****it. Please do not edit the OP without asking me. I am taking this very seriously and don't want people messing this up for those who might need this information.

EDIT 2

I just realized this is some April Fools joke.....Nice.....

[TriforceCore]

Omg I am so confused what are the matchups? The colors duke the colors.

[PXG]

Once April Fool's is over, I will re post all of the info I had up.

[Cooper736]

Also, I wouldn't say Cap'n Crunch is a 5. In my opinion, he's a 4 at best.

YES. Also OP is a killjoy, because now the rest of us can't enjoy what was obviously a good joke.

[Nicknyte]

Serious PXG is serious. Anyway, on my take on Luigi, PXG is right, and I am the basis on what he wrote Luigi Upon. Mediocre Luigi's can get easily owned by projectiles, and aerial can be demolished with Toon's Up smash. But with better players such as myself, I usually cancel out the projectiles with a jab or a kick. Some of the things you should never do against a seasoned Luigi is:

1. Throw. I see this, I ready my up b.
2. Dair into the ground. I can see the lag.

This combined with the stupid azz stepdodging of Luigi, and near perfect UpBing (or poke) action of a doubly stepdodged forward smash makes Luigi a retarded 4 if not 4.5.

[PXG]

Serious PXG is serious. Anyway, on my take on Luigi, PXG is right, and I am the basis on what he wrote Luigi Upon. Mediocre Luigi's can get easily owned by projectiles, and aerial can be demolished with Toon's Up smash. But with better players such as myself, I usually cancel out the projectiles with a jab or a kick. Some of the things you should never do against a seasoned Luigi is:

1. Throw. I see this, I ready my up b.
2. Dair into the ground. I can see the lag.

This combined with the stupid azz stepdodging of Luigi, and near perfect UpBing (or poke) action of a doubly stepdodged forward smash makes Luigi a retarded 4 if not 4.5.

Also, remember the "forbidden smashes". With Toon Link against Luigi, NEVER do d smashes or f smashes. A good Luigi will sheild your f smash and counter with a smash or fire punch. Your d smash can be easily be side stepped and followed up by a grab, smash or fire punch.

EDIT

Now that April Fool's is over I can continue to update this thread with new imformation.