Help against a skilled Lucario

[WuTangDude]

My brother is very good at Smash, just an edge over me, and uses Lucario. I have a ton of trouble against him (His rolls, air dodges, and spot dodges are spot-on perfect timing...), and I can't seem to get in a good kill move on him. He's even getting better at dodging the oh-so awesome B-air. Somebody wanna give your fellow TL mainer a tip? :)

[Coselm]

Against Lucario, spacing is very important. Lucario has more range than you would think, and it increases with his damage. I am yet to play a good Lucario, but one thing I do know about him is that he has a predictable recovery. Perfect for Dair spikes.

So I guess the only advice I can give you is learn his recovery patterns and Dair spike when it is safe. Also if he is dodging your attacks very well, it means that you are being predictable, and this needs to stop. Also don't forget your projectiles.

[QUIVO]

What's up with all these TLs going for Dair spikes? I've seen so many suicide because of it, and it's really not worth it...

Anyway, from my experience with playing Azen, use projectiles a lot and try to bair combo. I'll always use projectile to overwhelm then and to force them to shield, so I can possibly even get a grab in. Also, if they shield... try to go bair and then get to the otherside of their shield so you can nair before you land. They'll usually try punishing you, so you could get a hit in.

So many TLs go for Dairs and Dair spikes... they're so predictable. Don't use them much. Use a lot of nair, especially out of the shield. Watch out for his dair, since the hitbox seems to be pretty big.. also on top of that, it's strong. Be hesitant when going for uairs from beneath. From what I can recall, I killed him with random Fsmash, Usmash, and Nair off the stage. A lot of times you can get them far enough so you can just edgehog them.

If i think of more stuff, I'll just edit.

[zaf]

What's up with all these TLs going for Dair spikes? I've seen so many suicide because of it, and it's really not worth it...

Anyway, from my experience with playing Azen, use projectiles a lot and try to bair combo. I'll always use projectile to overwhelm then and to force them to shield, so I can possibly even get a grab in. Also, if they shield... try to go bair and then get to the otherside of their shield so you can nair before you land. They'll usually try punishing you, so you could get a hit in.

So many TLs go for Dairs and Dair spikes... they're so predictable. Don't use them much. Use a lot of nair, especially out of the shield. Watch out for his dair, since the hitbox seems to be pretty big.. also on top of that, it's strong. Be hesitant when going for uairs from beneath. From what I can recall, I killed him with random Fsmash, Usmash, and Nair off the stage. A lot of times you can get them far enough so you can just edgehog them.

If i think of more stuff, I'll just edit.


projectiles are key, thats one of the best things about toon link and one of the reasons why i use him, his projectiles are amazing. the boomerang shoots out so fast. So use it more often if he dodges that he wont always have time to dodge an attack right after.

and yes dair spikes do work, when you use them right. I see so many people d-air spiking when they are way to high above the target because its too obvious. If you want to see a great d-air spike here is a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7voERORf-g

a nair out of a shield is a great way to catch lucarios off their guard aswell Another thing that TL can do amazing vs anyone, is his f-smash mind games. remember that you have 2 swipes when you do your forward smash. Try and time your 2nd swipe to hit lucario. PLay mind games and always switch up the amount of time before each swing you do.

[QUIVO]

Too bad the spike is incredibly risky and predictable. They can airdodge, or just DI out of the way.

I used to go for so many spikes, and I'd try to pull them off randomly... or just after a bair. They work occasionally to rarely on any good player.

[zaf]

Too bad the spike is incredibly risky and predictable. They can airdodge, or just DI out of the way.

I used to go for so many spikes, and I'd try to pull them off randomly... or just after a bair. They work occasionally to rarely on any good player.

you have to pull put the dairs when it is least expected. like in the video in my last post. when i was watching i expected some more bair or some fair to send them off to the side but out of no where is a dair.

i agree that it will be hard to pull off on pro's, but thats why you limit the use of that move and make sure it will happen when you do . I barely use it, but when i do i make sure it works and was worth it

[WuTangDude]

Yeah, for the record, I barely d-air. I'd rather not, y'know, lose. Any situation where I could use a d-air, I use just use a b-air or even better, an f-air, which are both safer on a lot more levels...

And I guess I should up my projectile game. Afterall, I use arrows frequently (not enoguh for it to be considered spamming though), I rarely use bombs and I never even touch the boomerang (I'll use it like, once per match).

[J_DA_KING]

The only time to Dair is when your up a stock with pretty high damage....For me if im up a stock ill go for it at about 120 % but if i get up by two ill go for it as low as 80

[zaf]

Yeah, for the record, I barely d-air. I'd rather not, y'know, lose. Any situation where I could use a d-air, I use just use a b-air or even better, an f-air, which are both safer on a lot more levels...

And I guess I should up my projectile game. Afterall, I use arrows frequently (not enoguh for it to be considered spamming though), I rarely use bombs and I never even touch the boomerang (I'll use it like, once per match).

try to incorporate the boomerang a lil more often, it has a nice lil knockback. Once you hit with it if you are close enough you usually got time for a nice hit to get in.

the reason i said to use dair was because it was unexpected, thats all, if you can do it, then do it. seeing as you fair a lot it wont be expected from you

[QUIVO]

Use bombs more, they're so good. Sometimes you could just hit them with a bomb and follow up with a nair. This works for boomerang too, but i love bombs lol. If you think they're too slow, just jump and move while you pull one out.

[w3bhead]

Lucario's biggest weakness is his crappy recovery, well not the recovery itself but the fact that it can't do anything to stop you from edgehogging. I have a friend who is a very skilled Lucario player as well, and aside from projectiles I find that throwing Lucario off the stage followed by a bair and then an edgehog at decent percentages is a great strategy. Good luck taking advantage of this, hope it helps!

P.S. Look out for Lucario's dair

[DarkSeraph0]

Lucario's biggest weakness is his crappy recovery, well not the recovery itself but the fact that it can't do anything to stop you from edgehogging. I have a friend who is a very skilled Lucario player as well, and aside from projectiles I find that throwing Lucario off the stage followed by a bair and then an edgehog at decent percentages is a great strategy. Good luck taking advantage of this, hope it helps!

P.S. Look out for Lucario's dair

I don't usually have much of a problem making it back on to the stage as Lucario. I have my ways for dealing with edgehogs :P Mindgames ftw. Also, Double Team > all :D

[Anklez15]

just try to rack on damage by comboing. something good against lucario would be like up tilt up till u smash to like an aerial attack and then make sure u kill him fast because as u already know lucario gets stronger as he racks up more damage. Some good killing moves are Toon u air and his F air has great horizontal knock back. just mix it up on him so he doesn't know what to expect from you.

[WuTangDude]

try to incorporate the boomerang a lil more often, it has a nice lil knockback. Once you hit with it if you are close enough you usually got time for a nice hit to get in.

the reason i said to use dair was because it was unexpected, thats all, if you can do it, then do it. seeing as you fair a lot it wont be expected from you

Well, alright. I understand I should use the boomerang more, at least for the added unpredictability.

I just avoided spamming D-air a lot because I know that's the noobiest thing a TL user can do.

But thanks for all your advice.

P.S. Look out for Lucario's dair

Yeah, you don't gotta tell me twice, I found this out too. :laugh:

[Zenonfury]

Bombs are always a good nuisance for any opponent..use your mindgames and boomerangs at angles are awesome