Stage counterpicking

[MelodiousNocturne]

I need some advice on stage choice with TL. Any suggestions?

[nukethemall73]

flat stages. final destination, bridge of eldin, animal crossing, even halberd and orpheous are good i find. also a high ceiling is nice cos toon link is really light, unless you like to use your up smash as a kill move. altho, on high ceiling matches i just use upsmash to build LOADS of %, and use other moves to finish. pretty much any stage you can make good use of your projectiles works well. i dont mind platforms as long as its easy to kill from the base floor (so a big no to skyworld) and pass through platforms cos you can piss off your opponent utterly by u-airing thru the floor but not be at risk from counter (disjointed hitbox, and if they drop thru their just gonna be knocked up again by your sword) i love pirate ship cos the dip in the middle lets you send some projectile rapeage into the middle if they are in there. also, the water means riskless D-airs, same as delfino plaza. hell, isnt there a section on toon links good stages in -aether 's toon link guide?

[Cooper736]

Actually I'm going to disagree with nuke about flat stages. They are good, especially without platforms on some occasions, but don't count out places like Smashville (great stage in general, by the way), the new Yoshi's Island, and Delfino Plaza. Delfino in particular allows you to take advantage of your aerials by letting you jump under the stage, slash through it with a Bair, and double jump or Up B through it.

Flat stages are good, but Toon Link doesn't have the same camping potential as Pit or Snake. Never underestimate the power of a good floating platform or fall-through stage. It might save your life someday (Wolf can't Fsmash you on your way down...).

[TriforceCore]

My picks are Final D, Yoshis Isle, Corneria, Delfino, Pirate ship, and Final D-3(created flat level)

[fusiongtxz]

My picks are Final Destination, Smashville, Delfino Plaza, Halbred, and Yoshi's Island.
I have a little more difficulty beating people on stages like Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Skyworld, and Luigi's Mansion.
Also a really nice counterpick stage (for me) is Green Hill Zone. Mainly because you get zero lag with your D-Air in the middle of the stage.

[Crizthakidd]

new yoshis island should be your first pick

then final D. smashville delfino, ect

[Cooper736]

Why Yoshi's Island? I know it's good for TL, but that platform does screw a few combos, and offers a place to hide from arrows and bombs in many cases. I like Final Destination a lot more, then Smashville, then Delfino, then the Island.

Thought the music in Smashville sucks. Why couldn't Nintendo have brought the awesomeness of the Kirby soundtrack to Animal Crossing?

[QUIVO]

I really like Distant Planet and Delfino Plaza. Distant Planet you can control the stage really well. Deflino Plaza i can do well on. I also like to attack from under the stage.

[MelodiousNocturne]

Thanks for the help. Personally I was thinking along the lines of Criz. Typically I ban battlefield; my TL sucks it up at battlefield.

[Jing)]

FD. Best by far. No platforms so easy to spam projectiles and his ^B never is caught on edge if your careful while many peoples are.. soz.

[Shanky]

I think the best counterpick is Delfino. You can totally abuse those platforms and the parts where there is water allow for Dair spikes :-D

Melodious, you're not the only one...I really hate Battlefield with TL. Actually, I kind of hate Battlefield in general, because characters like Marth and DK can upsmash through all the platforms which is incredibly annoying. Fair and balanced my ***

[Quietdrive]

I think Pirate Ship (although not tourny legal) is Toon Links best stage... Dairing people through the water is more than satisfying and you don't have to worry about killing yourself in the process.

Of course this would just be for fun and not suitable for competitive play, but even so... I'd have to say that Pirate Ship is indeed Toon Link's best stage due to the water.

[Coselm]

flat stages. final destination, bridge of eldin, animal crossing, even halberd and orpheous are good i find. also a high ceiling is nice cos toon link is really light, unless you like to use your up smash as a kill move. altho, on high ceiling matches i just use upsmash to build LOADS of %, and use other moves to finish. pretty much any stage you can make good use of your projectiles works well. i dont mind platforms as long as its easy to kill from the base floor (so a big no to skyworld) and pass through platforms cos you can piss off your opponent utterly by u-airing thru the floor but not be at risk from counter (disjointed hitbox, and if they drop thru their just gonna be knocked up again by your sword) i love pirate ship cos the dip in the middle lets you send some projectile rapeage into the middle if they are in there. also, the water means riskless D-airs, same as delfino plaza. hell, isnt there a section on toon links good stages in -aether 's toon link guide?

High Ceilings suck for TL. I played a DDD on jungle japes, and you basically CANT kill him off the roof. You have to be aware that TL has good ceiling kill moves (Dsmash, Usmash, Uair), while landing a Fsmash or a Fair can be tricky.

[WuTangDude]

If you're not playing by the official stage pick rules, try to use stages with water a lot. Using the D-Air to spike someone to their death is normally extremely risky, but on water stages, you just plop in the water! On top of that, your opponent can't air dodge! :chuckle:

So yeah, Isle Delfino, Great Sea, and Summit (steer clear of the fish though!) are nice.

(Note that the running waters of Jungle Japes and Distant Planet don't count in this situation, they're too dangerous).

:)

[Johnknight1]

My picks are Final Destination, Smashville, Delfino Plaza, Halbred, and Yoshi's Island.
I have a little more difficulty beating people on stages like Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Skyworld, and Luigi's Mansion.
Also a really nice counterpick stage (for me) is Green Hill Zone. Mainly because you get zero lag with your D-Air in the middle of the stage.

Agree, although GHZ is just a slight counter-pick stage, and I find Battlefield to be only slightly a Toon Link pro-counter pick stage as well. Lylay Cruise sorta depends. It generally is a TL stage, but arrows aren't as goodin most cases, but bombs and boomerangs can be powerful. Luigi's Mansion is a anti-TL stage, but it isn't a huge disadvantage.

Pirate Ship is also a great Toon Link stage, somewhat along with Bridge of Eldin, Frigate Orpheon, and the Pokémon Stadiums.

Actually, try Rainbow Ride. It's a real good Toon Link stage, and you can do a lot with it. It's EASILY one of the best Toon Link stages in my opinion. And if you know how to use onett's center, it can be a powerful counter-pick stage for KO'ing your foe upwards.

High Ceilings generally hurt TL if you can kill upwards. He generally gets his outwards, so high ceilings hurt him more then it helps. Your uAir kills great, and TL basically always get killed outwards=bad. High ceilings are somewhat a counter-pick AGAINST Toon Link, in my opinion.

[Cooper736]

Lylat Cruise is definitely a counterpick against Toon Link to me. The platforms, though slightly more level with each other, are definitely reminiscent of Battlefield. The fact that they're in such close proximity with each other can also make it difficult to bomb from above, Dair, and throw your boomerangs down; in essence, recover. I'm not sure why Delfino doesn't work this way, but if you're into using platforms, Delfino is definitely the place to be.

As far as water stages go, I'd advise against them in many cases if you're only into them for spiking. A lot of characters this gen have awesome spiking ability, and Toon Link isn't the only one with a disjointed hitbox. Link, Ike, Olimar, Lucas, and Ganondorf all come to mind, and your Uair won't exactly help much if you're trying to counter a character with a bigger DH than yours. Not to mention that as a light character, you're easier to smack down of the stage, as opposed to heavier characters.

Those are my impressions anyway.

[Shanky]

High Ceilings suck for TL. I played a DDD on jungle japes, and you basically CANT kill him off the roof. You have to be aware that TL has good ceiling kill moves (Dsmash, Usmash, Uair), while landing a Fsmash or a Fair can be tricky.

I think you just have to play differently. Normally, I save the Usmash for higher percentages as a killing move, so when I play stages with high ceilings, I do the opposite and spam it at lower percentages. At the same time, keep the Fsmash and the fair fresh.

Although I do agree, I would rather not have a high ceiling....I find that as TL I'm usually getting KO-ed off the side anyway.