Ike is overrated but underpowered

[Smashbros_7]

I'm sick of noobs coming into this board and other boards complaining about how overpowered this guy is when the player doesn't know how to shield or dodge. It's sad how such an underpowered character gets all this undeserved praise.

Ike is truly the noob killer of brawl. He's so predictable, he's to slow and his recover is garbage. He's got his range and power but all of his good killing moves are also his good damage moves(ftilt bair). This is a serious problem because he's never gonna kill with his fsmash, usmash, dair, dtilt and dsmash. Those moves are simply to slow or/and situational. This is a problem because Ike's ftilt is his best combat move and killer so the damage and knockback reduction rule will affect him greatly.

This also applies to his bair but it's somewhat predictable because he's jumping to accomplish this move. His other aerials are also predictable and easy to avoid because they're not as fast or as strong as his bair. Shield pressuring also doesn't apply to Ike because he's even to slow for that! It's quite sad the way Ike can't chase, combo and edge guard well because he's to slow and most characters can stall easily to counter shield pressuring tactics.

His edge guarding sucks because he has horrible aerial DI and his moves are predictable and will be air dodged. His moves are all mediocre as well. B: to predictable and easy to avoid. B>:Predictable as an attack and bad as a recovery move. B^:Spamming doesn't work because you can just shield and grab. When your above him you can simply air dodge. As a recovery move it's atrocious. His counter is the worst counter in the game and is just an overall bad move. Let's face it Ike doesn't even have good grabs because they're all weak and can't combo. Ike has absolutely nothing going for him. No grab game, bad Bmoves, bad recovery and isn't heavy enough to cntemplate for it, bad recovery and a surprising amount of trouble killing due to slowness, predictable and damage claus.

PS:His jab combo is decent but easy to grab Ike out of.

[SiShenDao]

You'll probably get flamed for this, but i see where you are coming from. but i must disagree with somethings you said.

while i do agree ike is easily the best noob punisher, i have to say his fmash and upsmash are completely situational and a good ike should be able to force an opponent into it. as for dtilt, barely anyone uses it but dair is useful vs those who mess up their recovery and are slightly above the platform. as for your ftilt as his best killer and damager? that is probably wrong as jab combo is his best damager and i find his aerials are his best killer moves.

as for your statement on bair is partially true, of course people using a high recovery will notice you're trying to bair them, but there's also the thought that you can use that to mind game them into using an airdodge and instead use uair to kill them vertically. plus when Ike does a RAR, it comes out so fast that most people won't be able to react to it.

true, eruption is easily seen but if an opponent is hanging on the ledge the massive hitbox gives them massive pressure. from what i've seen a good ike can position himself so that the front of the explosion will hit a person getting up from the ledge and the back will hit if they roll. plus you have to remember, eruption has some super armor frames, and if well timed you can use it to counter someone attacking you. as for his >B it's an amazing tool for ike's positioning, not an attack. another bright side to it is that you can charge it forever, keeping your opponent guessing, but of course a projectile will simply own this. an upb spammer is obviously not that great of a player, so don't even talk about that. and as for his counter, that's just to add to his mindgame pool. if someone was rapidly attacking you and then you suddenly whip out a counter, it's supposed to make them worried that you may randomly spam it out again.

as a summary if you didn't bother to read, it's true that Ike seems to be overrated by the mass number of newbies, but he's not as bad as you say he is, though i don't think he'll be a top tier character, he'll probably be in the middle somewhere as he has good offensive abilities, decent defensive, and a slightly poor recovery (it's definitely better than Link's).

[Lord Aether]

if someone was rapidly attacking you and then you suddenly whip out a counter, it's supposed to make them worried that you may randomly spam it out again.Despite the delay from the actual Counter itself? Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "rapidly".

[SiShenDao]

Despite the delay from the actual Counter itself? Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "rapidly".

by rapid I a person who is on complete offensive and is constantly trying to hit you, not rapid as in like metaknight.

[Smashbros_7]

You'll probably get flamed for this, but i see where you are coming from. but i must disagree with somethings you said.

while i do agree ike is easily the best noob punisher, i have to say his fmash and upsmash are completely situational and a good ike should be able to force an opponent into it. as for dtilt, barely anyone uses it but dair is useful vs those who mess up their recovery and are slightly above the platform. as for your ftilt as his best killer and damager? that is probably wrong as jab combo is his best damager and i find his aerials are his best killer moves.

as for your statement on bair is partially true, of course people using a high recovery will notice you're trying to bair them, but there's also the thought that you can use that to mind game them into using an airdodge and instead use uair to kill them vertically. plus when Ike does a RAR, it comes out so fast that most people won't be able to react to it.

true, eruption is easily seen but if an opponent is hanging on the ledge the massive hitbox gives them massive pressure. from what i've seen a good ike can position himself so that the front of the explosion will hit a person getting up from the ledge and the back will hit if they roll. plus you have to remember, eruption has some super armor frames, and if well timed you can use it to counter someone attacking you. as for his >B it's an amazing tool for ike's positioning, not an attack. another bright side to it is that you can charge it forever, keeping your opponent guessing, but of course a projectile will simply own this. an upb spammer is obviously not that great of a player, so don't even talk about that. and as for his counter, that's just to add to his mindgame pool. if someone was rapidly attacking you and then you suddenly whip out a counter, it's supposed to make them worried that you may randomly spam it out again.

as a summary if you didn't bother to read, it's true that Ike seems to be overrated by the mass number of newbies, but he's not as bad as you say he is, though i don't think he'll be a top tier character, he'll probably be in the middle somewhere as he has good offensive abilities, decent defensive, and a slightly poor recovery (it's definitely better than Link's).

True. So true. I was expecting flames.

[3xSwords]

True. So true. I was expecting flames.

If you want them have you can have 'em. BURN NOOB BURNNN!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA BURNN YOU LITTLE DUMB****, ALL YOU NOOBS CAN BURNNNNNN!!!!!! ....ok I've had my fun. Anyone else.


*psssstt this is probably the only time they'll let you off for flaming:p lol

[homicidalrapist]

Ike's neutral A rapes. he can do a short hopped fair and then neutral A after he lands. It's hard to punish. Ike's up B is pretty good for spiking' you can thru someone off the stage and use it while they recover. if u move forward slightly, you'll grab the ledge while sending ur opponent down below.

Ike's counter isn't so bad really, u can mix up the counter with eruption since eruption kinda acts like a faster counter.

His Dair is kinda like wolf's, it can be good as an approach and isn't hard to spike with.

The thing about Ike is that he has massive start up times for his attacks but recovery times are pretty small in comparison, so he's not as easy to punish as say, bowser.....

[xYz]

Smashbros7.... you fail.

predictable?? ya if you're fighting a noob *** ike. good ikes eliminate most of ike's predictability. his recovery has its ups and downs.

I had alot of **** to write but im just lazy... you sound like one of these noobs you're trying to discribe.

[Radical Dreamer]

Lol at this loser again, and lol at Ike never being able to kill with Usmash, Dsmash or dair. Wanna know how to kill with Usmash? Go to the stage select screen and pick Battlefield or Lylat Cruise. Yeah, Ike has a crappy grab game, but so does just about everyone in Brawl unless you play IC's, Dedede or Falco. It can still potentially set up for offstage dairs.

That said, as much as I love Ike, he is a pretty limited character and will have a ton of trouble against the higher tier characters.

Still, you're a retard. He isn't heavy enough to "cntemplate" for it? Jesus. Typical misunderstanding of the definition of DI as well.

[Krath]

Do people not realize that Ike's dsmash is fast and somewhat powerful?

Oh, also, Ike's fsmash isn't useless for killing. I love it when people underestimate my timing with his fsmash and I hit them with it during something like Falco/Fox's Illusion.

[Sans Glutin]

Ike's neutral A rapes. he can do a short hopped fair and then neutral A after he lands. It's hard to punish. Ike's up B is pretty good for spiking' you can thru someone off the stage and use it while they recover. if u move forward slightly, you'll grab the ledge while sending ur opponent down below.

Ike's counter isn't so bad really, u can mix up the counter with eruption since eruption kinda acts like a faster counter.

His Dair is kinda like wolf's, it can be good as an approach and isn't hard to spike with.

The thing about Ike is that he has massive start up times for his attacks but recovery times are pretty small in comparison, so he's not as easy to punish as say, bowser.....

I'm sorry but what are you talking about? You can't use a neutral aerial after you land on the ground.

Eruption isn't like counter at all, and it isn't faster than it.

Ike's Dair isn't a good approach. Not sure about Wolf's but I don't think it is either.

[SHined BLind]

If you want them have you can have 'em. BURN NOOB BURNNN!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA BURNN YOU LITTLE DUMB****, ALL YOU NOOBS CAN BURNNNNNN!!!!!! ....ok I've had my fun. Anyone else.


*psssstt this is probably the only time they'll let you off for flaming:p lol

Ohh, oohh, pick mii, pick me, I want to flame!! You teh n00b, so third degree burn, n00b!1!!

O.k... back on topic. Ike is cheap because he has: good knockback, heavyweight, great dis-jointed hit box witch more than compensates his lack of speed (despite being probably the faster heavyweight character) and has one of the best final smashes. Shure he can't combo easily, but c'm'on, who can in Brawl?/

[Smashbros_7]

Geez louise.

Ike Neutral A combo isn't that. You can interrupt it! Ike is slow in ALL of his attacks, bad recovery, and Radical Dreamer is a troll who can't play well. Forget him.

[XSilvenX]

You Are An Idiot. Plz Get Off This Sub-section Of The Forums

[Smashbros_7]

You Are An Idiot. Plz Get Off This Sub-section Of The Forums

No argument? Fail.

As you can see, you made yourself look like an idiot.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Lord Aether]

Oh, also, Ike's fsmash isn't useless for killing. I love it when people underestimate my timing with his fsmash and I hit them with it during something like Falco/Fox's Illusion.The only time I could ever actually hit someone with an fsmash was when my friend used his Down+B on my and went right in front of me during an fsmash. Pure luck.

I don't use Fsmash unless I'm 90% confident it'll hit and getting to that point is harder than it sounds. I can see it as the worst of his smashes because it's not nearly as fast as dsmash and doesn't cover nearly as much as his usmash; granted, I don't really use usmash either. But I use it a lot more than fsmash.

Ftilt works so much better even if you have to get them up to 100% to get the KO.

[Exia 00]

why is this thread still alive ? (just realized that i helped)

[paSTAR]

I'm going to have to agree with you on Ike being predicatable. I play with my friend and he knows how to play against my Ike. He plays Falco so it's really hard to beat him. But I think your wrong about neutral A. I don't think I've seen anyone get out of it after being hit by the first punch.

He doesn't have the greatest B moves, but I stick to his A.

Does anyone else have a hard time fighting Falco/Link? (I don't have any other friends that play other projectile users.)

[Radical Dreamer]

Yeah, last night I was playing Brawl against the best Melee Game & Watch player aside from Ken and Chudat. Who do you play with again? If I can hit him with usmashes, dsmashes and fairs, I can sure as hell hit a scrub like you with them.

Ike does kind of suck, but your analysis is still flawed and retarded.

[VersatileBJN]

Predictability is out the window pretty much when the Ike player is actually...I dunno...good?

Ike is high tier. Probably bottom of the high tier. Yes, he has problems against the top tiers as in he loses to them in a best of 10 for the most part. Outside of Falco none of them are obscenely hard, but if two players of equal skill go at it and it's Ike vs GW, Falco, Wolf, Marth, Toon Link, Rob, Pikachu, D3, Pit, Snake, Meta, Fox, etc he's at a disadvantage. Winnable? Certainly, but you have to work harder.

He has great range and priority. He probably has the best jab in the game and the most range for sure. He can KO in a game where lots of characters struggle to do so. His aerials are very good and he has high stamina.

This doesn't translate to bad...play better Ikes plz.

bottom of the high tier or top of the mid tier.

[Krath]

You've already made yourself look like an idiot, Smashbros_7. Please, stop being a crappy troll and leave.

[Smashbros_7]

Fine I'll stop posting I surrender. But can someone explain why this thread is completely false, why Radical dreamer won't leave me alone, why people still think this guy's high tier and why there are so many flamers who can't except an opinion. Jeez, was just annoyed that everyone claims that this guy's the best when that's probably G&W, Snake, Metaknight or Falco. Someone convince me why this guy won't be low mid or high low please.

[Smashbros_7]

Lol at this loser again, and lol at Ike never being able to kill with Usmash, Dsmash or dair. Wanna know how to kill with Usmash? Go to the stage select screen and pick Battlefield or Lylat Cruise. Yeah, Ike has a crappy grab game, but so does just about everyone in Brawl unless you play IC's, Dedede or Falco. It can still potentially set up for offstage dairs.

That said, as much as I love Ike, he is a pretty limited character and will have a ton of trouble against the higher tier characters.

Still, you're a retard. He isn't heavy enough to "cntemplate" for it? Jesus. Typical misunderstanding of the definition of DI as well.

I know what DI is. And besides Ike really isn't that heavy. Bowser has a bad recovery but he contemplates for it by being the heaviest.

Yeah, last night I was playing Brawl against the best Melee Game & Watch player aside from Ken and Chudat. Who do you play with again? If I can hit him with usmashes, dsmashes and fairs, I can sure as hell hit a scrub like you with them.

Ike does kind of suck, but your analysis is still flawed and retarded.

Again, heres radical jerk hiding behind the players he plays. Again. Yes you can hit with them but I can tell you that those moves were predicted, blocked and punished in more then one occasion during your match. I can also tell you that you probably lost.

I know I stated I'd stop posting but radical jerk is a jerk who hides behind the people he plays and takes range and priority over all else. Stop trolling on the Ness/Wario boards you
close minded, blunt, annoying cowardice *******. That is all and yes that was just to radical****head.

[VersatileBJN]

We dont need to convince you lmao. Who are you, Ken?

I wouldn't even try to convince Ken of ****. I'd tell him to kiss my buttocks.

You aren't important son lmao.

If you think Ike is low tier that's fine. You're wrong tho XD

[Mizar]

Sage goes in all fields.

[cam702]

Have you played a reputable Ike? Fight Ussi, or Silven, or xYz, or RoK. For God's sake someone kick this guy's ***.

[Radical Dreamer]

I post in the Ike and Wario forums because I play these freaking characters. Both of them are mid tier at best and possibly even low tier. In Brawl I'm a mid tier/low tier player.

You don't know what DI is. You don't know what 'contemplate' is either.

Yes you can get punished as Ike, but this isn't Melee, so unless you're playing against Falco, Ice Climbers, Dedede, Snake or another Ike, being punished isn't really that big of a deal in Brawl.

I make a point of mentioning the people I play with because you make a point of telling me that I suck. I go to school with one of the best Smashers in Norcal. I've only been playing Smash for a year, but nearly all of that time has been spent playing with a lot of competent players and even some legendary players, and this experience informs my views and lends a degree of legitimacy that you can't claim. Have you ever played with anyone noteworthy at all?

[Sygmus]

In place of the word "contemplate," you're thinking of the word "compensate" (if I spelled it right).

I can see where you're coming from, Ike is slow enough to be predictable to a degree. I almost never use his smash attacks, they're just too slow. I only use them when my opponent is off-guard, which is not often. But a good Ike player changes up attacks effectively enough to be quite a threat. If predicability is kept to a minimum, Ike becomes a power to be reckoned with. I love Ike's uB for recovery, by the way.

On a side note to Radical Dreamer, that's awesome that you're constantly in contact with some superb players. Playing and losing to better players is how I got better as well. I've had the pleasure of playing Bob$ every so often.

[RednaXale]

Agree with your statements. When I started playing I thought Ike was really good. Now I realize he's just a predictable powerhouse. Dodge and you win. Ike is better in FFA or teams but will get owned in 1 vs 1.

[Radical Dreamer]

Do you live in Norcal? The player I keep referring to is Snap, who I played Brawl with last night. He is, along with players like Bob$, one of the best players in Norcal. Obviously not as well known as the King or Silentspectre, but a few months ago he caught some attention at UCSD, where he was beating Lucky's Fox in friendlies and won the first game of his set with Mango -- both with Mr. Game & Watch.

I played Bob$ once myself. I think I got 3 stocked.

[Smashbros_7]

I post in the Ike and Wario forums because I play these freaking characters. Both of them are mid tier at best and possibly even low tier. In Brawl I'm a mid tier/low tier player.

You don't know what DI is. You don't know what 'contemplate' is either.

Yes you can get punished as Ike, but this isn't Melee, so unless you're playing against Falco, Ice Climbers, Dedede, Snake or another Ike, being punished isn't really that big of a deal in Brawl.

I make a point of mentioning the people I play with because you make a point of telling me that I suck. I go to school with one of the best Smashers in Norcal. I've only been playing Smash for a year, but nearly all of that time has been spent playing with a lot of competent players and even some legendary players, and this experience informs my views and lends a degree of legitimacy that you can't claim. Have you ever played with anyone noteworthy at all?

Wario is high tier IMO. Seriously, just learn to play him. I respect that play with good players but you've only played for a year yet you think your opinion beats all else. If you want to state an opinion state their opinion. I know what DI is and if I have to state a description I will: Direction Influence. This is influencing what direction you go when your opponent launches you with an attack. Whoops I used contemplate instead of compensate...

Since when is being punished not a bad thing? When it's happening throughout the match it can be a pain. When I say Ike is predictable I mean he has a staring animation for everything except his bair so you know whats coming. When Ike SH in to an aerial and it's blocked he'll be punished because he can't DI backwards after any aerial to remain safe. Remind you of someone? Also since when does DI completely eliminate recovery problems?

[Blue sHell]

Smashbros_7, PM Silven, the guy that said you fail in the first page of this thread. And then fight him on wifi. Then go back on smashboards and try to say predictable, too slow, and can't kill in the same sentence as Ike.

This isn't meant to be any offense. In all honesty, its clear you haven't fought a high end Ike, and you deserve to.

[Radical Dreamer]

Since when is being punished not a bad thing? When it's happening throughout the match it can be a pain. When I say Ike is predictable I mean he has a staring animation for everything except his bair so you know whats coming. When Ike SH in to an aerial and it's blocked he'll be punished because he can't DI backwards after any aerial to remain safe. Remind you of someone? Also since when does DI completely eliminate recovery problems?
Nice job defining DI for me and then going back to misusing it a paragraph later. Gee, Wario can move back after doing an aerial that he needed to be an inch away to perform? Ike can land his attacks three Wario body lengths away.

Fact of the matter is that almost no characters in this game have a substantial reward for punishing mistakes, with a few notable exceptions. IC's are an exception since they can 0-to-death everyone in the game with one grab. Ike and Snake are exceptions because they kill at unusually low percents. But most characters in the game will only get a free 10% and won't kill until well past 130.

[Aggression]

Lol at this loser again, and lol at Ike never being able to kill with Usmash, Dsmash or dair. Wanna know how to kill with Usmash? Go to the stage select screen and pick Battlefield or Lylat Cruise. Yeah, Ike has a crappy grab game, but so does just about everyone in Brawl unless you play IC's, Dedede or Falco. It can still potentially set up for offstage dairs.

That said, as much as I love Ike, he is a pretty limited character and will have a ton of trouble against the higher tier characters.

Still, you're a retard. He isn't heavy enough to "cntemplate" for it? Jesus. Typical misunderstanding of the definition of DI as well.

we only have like 7 high tiers, and they're not even that good by comparison of the high tiers to mid tiers in melee...
there's only like 28 mid and 7 high tiers, not much dif...

[Smashbros_7]

Nice job defining DI for me and then going back to misusing it a paragraph later. Gee, Wario can move back after doing an aerial that he needed to be an inch away to perform? Ike can land his attacks three Wario body lengths away.

Fact of the matter is that almost no characters in this game have a substantial reward for punishing mistakes, with a few notable exceptions. IC's are an exception since they can 0-to-death everyone in the game with one grab. Ike and Snake are exceptions because they kill at unusually low percents. But most characters in the game will only get a free 10% and won't kill until well past 130.

What I mean by DI'ng backwards is that Wario has the best aerial DI in the game. The actual term is aerial movement but I prefer the other term.

Hey, Blueshell. Wasn't it you who stated in the Wario vs. Ike match up thread that Wario would have the advantage? Whatever, Ike is probably better than what I give him credit for I guess...

Radical loser, why are you arguing with me when you have the same opinion of Ike as I do. I guess I should stop insulting you through your name but it has become a force of habit so you shouldn't take it so personally although I do disagree with your views on Wario.

Importance
1.Speed
2.Power
3.Range
4.Projectile and camping game
5.Recovery (Not as important as it was in melee but still a very important factor DI or not.)

Anyways Wario fills 3/5 of this while Ike only fills 2/5. This doesn't mean Wario is a 3/5 character though.

This obviously isn't all of the most important things in brawl.

[Emblem Lord]

Make a mistake vs Marth and eat a tipper and then die at 80%

Just saying.

Also Ike is subpar.

Close this thread now plz.

[Smashbros_7]

Make a mistake vs Marth and eat a tipper and then die at 80%

Just saying.

Also Ike is subpar.

Close this thread now plz.

Your agreeing with me but you hate this thread?

Well I put my point out here so I guess it should be closed, but you have to agree that Ike is the most overrated character in this game. It's true and you can't argue with that.

[Emblem Lord]

Ike is overrated by noobs, but he actually kind of sucks.

Too easy to edgeguard.

[PKSkyler]

I dont think Ike` areials are too predictable, his most predictible attacks are his Fsmah and Usmash, and I only use Usmash if they are open or if I dash then slide and usmash, fsmash just as a killing move or edge guard(some stupid people fall for this if they are above me and you let go a little earlier then the air dodge xD)
Also dtilt is just for spikes (feels gerat when you hit them xD)

[Radical Dreamer]

Marth is gay.

But he's so much fun to play in Melee.