Something all Ike players should know about Aether..and also something with BAIR

[XSilvenX]

I recently started using Aethers to spike alot more in my gameplay. But there are some times when I would go for an Aether spike vs someone and I would successfully get the spike but Ike wouldn't grab on for some weird reason. I found out that if was because I was holding forward. Now The only reason I would hold forward is to have Ike be on par with the ledge so that after the Aether I don't hit the floor but I grab the ledge. Now there is a way to of course grab the ledge after an Aether without any DI with proper spacing, but of course you're not always in the position to do that. Sometimes I would Aether far from the ledge so I would hold forward to sync Ike up with the ledge and at times Ike wouldn't grab no matter how close he was to the ledge. Little did I know that holding forward is the same thing as holding down in that situation..Ike WILL NOT GRAB THE LEDGE with his back turned to the ledge while you're holding forward. I thought it was only while holding down since it's a general thing for all characters but no...it's kind of weird. Of course this only applies to when his back it turned to the stage...he has no problem grabbing facing forward. I notice sometimes people recover with Ike's Aether backwards too when they're coming from under the stage so just remember to let go of Forward when Ike is on par with the ledge or else he won't grab.. That sure does explain my SD in the tourney match I had on Sunday.. (still won though hehe)

And the Shorthop B-Air issue..it may or may not happen to you but just try this....go in training mode or any other mode...really it doesn't matter. And try to do 10 successive shorthop bairs IMMEDIATELY out of jump with the C-stick. Stupid right...? What I'm referring to is the tendency for Ike to not SH BAIR sometimes...he will do a backwards jump with slight momentum going towards the back. I've talked to Versa about this and he says he has the same issue sometimes...at first he thought it was his controller but I'm starting to think there are certain frames where if you press Bair too fast after you jump, it won't register as a Bair. It's pretty ridiculous as SH Bair is one of the key things to Ike. An immediate one is necessary in certain situations. I've known about this for the longest but I always thought it was a controlller issue...only thing is, I'm using a relatively new controller and it does the same thing. Now I'm pretty much forced to delay my C-stick BAIR a little bit..it's still lagless but it's kind of annoying to have to remember to slow down your BAIR.

[xYz]

interesting.. good find, recently i've been diong the aether edge guard, but i've never suicided... nice find sil.

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

And the Shorthop B-Air issue..it may or may not happen to you but just try this....go in training mode or any other mode...really it doesn't matter. And try to do 10 successive shorthop bairs IMMEDIATELY out of jump with the C-stick. Stupid right...? What I'm referring to is the tendency for Ike to not SH BAIR sometimes...he will do a backwards jump with slight momentum going towards the back. I've talked to Versa about this and he says he has the same issue sometimes...at first he thought it was his controller but I'm starting to think there are certain frames where if you press Bair too fast after you jump, it won't register as a Bair. It's pretty ridiculous as SH Bair is one of the key things to Ike. An immediate one is necessary in certain situations. I've known about this for the longest but I always thought it was a controlller issue...only thing is, I'm using a relatively new controller and it does the same thing. Now I'm pretty much forced to delay my C-stick BAIR a little bit..it's still lagless but it's kind of annoying to have to remember to slow down your BAIR.

This is actually an issue arising from the C-stick itself. In Brawl, the C-stick isn't as responsive as in Melee, and has a tenancy to fail when used in quick succession with other commands. Exactly why it does this is beyond me, but I know its true. People who B-stick, or spam Smashes also notice this.

[Ussi]

its annoying to me the c-stick. I have jumped instead of doing the move i asked for. it's not Ike only, other characters also will feel this.

and wow o.o i haven't really don't aether spiking that much but i think its cause of that suicide i had i gave up on it >.> This probably explains it.

[XSilvenX]

This is actually an issue arising from the C-stick itself. In Brawl, the C-stick isn't as responsive as in Melee, and has a tenancy to fail when used in quick succession with other commands. Exactly why it does this is beyond me, but I know its true. People who B-stick, or spam Smashes also notice this.

That can't be right because it has the same tendency to do it when I shorthop and manually bair with the control stick and "A"..maybe we're talking about different things? :(

Anyway it's not a real HUGE deal...just wanted to bring it to attention since it's never really been spoken of. It's really simple to get around ...just pay more attention to your timing with bair really...so the margin of error is minimized. It's really frustrating to be able to KO someone on their last stock but NOT have it happen because Ike decides it would be fun to instead do a backflip instead of fling his sword... :psycho:

[thewiredknight]

The c-stick thing is right but the problem you describe sometimes happens with regular button inputs as well. Mostly because of two things I think

1. Ike's jumps are really short, especially his short hop
2. Ike's bair has a short startup

Because of those, sometimes Ike's short hop isn't long enough for him to even complete teh startup of the move and hence landing just cancels the thing.

[XSilvenX]

I think this happens with all characters..the holding forward thing. I can't believe I never knew about this. I'm gonna check this out for sure since I'm not 100% yet. If it is then I believe there are people that aren't exactly "in the know" about this...since I wasn't and I've been playing smash competitively since Melee...pretty ridiculous. There was never a need to hold forward when recovering in Melee though since characters did not grab on backwards like that, but since this is Brawl and all characters do it then there may be times where you would prefer doing a reverse upb.

[sesshomaru]

Ew concerning the bair thing, play meta and then try snake. You'll do that so much, it seems very noticeable with the slow char. lol I love when I bair to fast and snake will sh FORWARD. Too stupid.

[XSilvenX]

Oh so it's throughout the whole game..that's so retarded. So many bugs...that can't be on purpose. The game has a buffer system that transfers the last direction you were holding within a few frames from air to land. For example you shorthop and mash LEFT or RIGHT as your character is about to fall and he will dash LEFT or RIGHT immediately as he lands. It also buffers the next thing you want to do from the ending animation from your previous move...yet somehow you attempt a SH BAIR and the character just jumps at times?! Nobody can convince me that they did that on purpose..ridiculous.

[Vro]

I've never had that problem with Aether and grabbing the ledge. Grabbing the ledge is always going to be a little goofy.

As far as the C-Stick goes, Trebor-Nella got it just right. The C-Stick's responsiveness is lacking..

[Chompskee]

Thats a good find with the Aether, i use it for Edge as well i dont suicide too often but ill confirm this and then post

[XSilvenX]

I've never had that problem with Aether and grabbing the ledge. Grabbing the ledge is always going to be a little goofy.

As far as the C-Stick goes, Trebor-Nella got it just right. The C-Stick's responsiveness is lacking..

That's probably because you don't reverse Aether recover as much as I do. It's pretty handy, and if the player isn't careful about where he steps sometimes they get spiked..it's stupid how it works but it does....

[Ree301]

ganons lagless stomp has this issue as well. it's either a timing issue where if the attack command is given too soon it spoils the whole short hop, or [less likely] a limit on Ike programed into the game itself...and Gannondorf too:[ either way, good luck with it. HEAVY CHARACTERS UNITE

[ike_love]

The c-stick thing is right but the problem you describe sometimes happens with regular button inputs as well. Mostly because of two things I think

1. Ike's jumps are really short, especially his short hop
2. Ike's bair has a short startup

Because of those, sometimes Ike's short hop isn't long enough for him to even complete teh startup of the move and hence landing just cancels the thing.

Ok... I think you're talking about something completely different. The bair is Ike's quickest air, so that wouldn't make any sence unless you were trying to get it off JUST BEFORE you land. Silven is talking about when you want to IMMEDIATELY bair from rar.

Oh so it's throughout the whole game..that's so retarded. So many bugs...that can't be on purpose. The game has a buffer system that transfers the last direction you were holding within a few frames from air to land. For example you shorthop and mash LEFT or RIGHT as your character is about to fall and he will dash LEFT or RIGHT immediately as he lands. It also buffers the next thing you want to do from the ending animation from your previous move...yet somehow you attempt a SH BAIR and the character just jumps at times?! Nobody can convince me that they did that on purpose..ridiculous.

And yes I believe it's just something that can't be buffered like other moves. I could be wrong, but maybe it has something to do with the fact that you can reverse Usmash through a cancelled rar. Maybe there's some sort of No-Fly-Zone to where there's a few frames when no imput can be entered or something. I don't know, that's the only thing that I could think of.

[Empy]

Yeah I use Aether spike all the time, it's a great move. Please do note, you don't have to let go of your control stick until the very last second. I've Aether spiked from pretty far from the ledge and I find it pretty easy to do from the stage.

Another great tip for Aether spikes, is knowing your opponents UpB. You know this is the next move he'll do, so timing a dair right can destroy him. In fact you can Aether spike > Dair on certain characters at 15-20%, while you can even pick them up from the stage, I killed a Bowser at about 30% yesterday with an Aether out of shield, works amazing.

[Tenki]

This is actually an issue arising from the C-stick itself. In Brawl, the C-stick isn't as responsive as in Melee, and has a tenancy to fail when used in quick succession with other commands. Exactly why it does this is beyond me, but I know its true. People who B-stick, or spam Smashes also notice this.

Either way, it's usually fixed if you press that direction with the ctrl stick, I think.

example:
can't do dsmash with c-stick.
[taps down on control stick]
[taps down on c-stick]

`.`; i'd reconfirm it more, but atm, i'm avoiding my GC controller, ruined after a cg. lul