Time to elaborate: D-Air is NOT GOOD (or at least as much as it's made out to be)

[WuTangDude]

Let's be honest: When the majority of us first tried Toon Link, the first we noticed wasn't incredible b-air, or versatile projectiles; it was Toon Link's D-air (or, at leats this was my case). It's fast, strong, and best of all, can SPIKE. Seems like the perfect arial, huh?


It's not.

Toon Link's D-air is NOT the kind of move you wanna get in the habit of using frequently. Allow me to elaborate:

1.) It's SO easy to predict- Come on, when an opponent sees a TL in the air, and they're directly above them, they know what's coming. That and the animation is a stall-than-fall, which is cool, but also let's the opponent know what's coming. When your opponent sees your attack coming from a mile away, it's bad. It's even worse when...

2.) It's SO easy to dodge- Seriously, once the attack starts, there's no turning or cancelling out of it. It's a straight line down. All it takes is a roll on the ground, on an air dodge, which isn't very difficult at all to pull off. See, this where level 9's screw your game over: Despite their near-perfect spot dodges, rolls, and shielding from projectiles, they can't sense the D-air at all. Go figure. This gets players into the habit of using it a lot against the comps to rack up damage against comps, but against even a semi-skilled human player, it won't get you very far at all.

3.) If you don't have ground below you, than you might as well start a moment of silence for the little guy, because he's gonna SD (self-destruct)- This move can't be cancelled, so when you're going down, there's no stopping it (unless you use the bomb trick, look around if you don't know what that is). So when you're going for that oh-so satisfying spike, the chances or it's gonna fail and you'll die. Because either you'll miss, or your opponent will prove that point 2 is true.

4.) The landing lag is terrible!- When you hit the ground, your sword gets stuck in the ground, so you gotta take a second to pull it out. Sure, the air may push away characters, or you may be on ground where the pogo-effect comes in. OR, you could be on a slope, which you'll slide down! But that's often not going to be the case. The majority of the time you're just gonna get punished for missing such a laggy move.


...So, there you have it. For all the new Toon Link users, trust me, this is not a move to rely. It CAN be a good move, but it's so hyped by the new users that they fail to see, it's many downfalls. Even I was like that. It's as simple as the more you use it against humans, the more you'll agree with me.

If you're looking for good arials, his other three or sick!

(B-Air: Damage racker, combotastic
F-air: Horizontal kill move
U-Air: Vertical kill move)

[bottles vs mumbo]

so true. however there are some good ledgeguarding techniques u can do with (there are better options, but just to have some variations) also short hop dair can be good to punish laggy moves and also u look cool when u spike with dair :)

[Umby]

If you have an opening to punish with a SH dair, you're better off punishing with a smash or bair combo, depending on percentage.

[TheLake]

lol but who doesnt love when you smack a shielder with the dair and it just bounces off?

Its not that great of a move but I still say it has its uses.

[Ørion]

lol but its so fun when they're trying to recover and spike them down with this, bounce up, land on the stage, and taunt to bug them :) (yes, I know that this is still easy to dodge, but it looks awesome and your opponent feels stupid if you can pull it off.)

[WuTangDude]

lol but who doesnt love when you smack a shielder with the dair and it just bounces off?

Its not that great of a move but I still say it has its uses.

Without a doubt, it is a good move. Just not the God-like move most new-players intially think it is.

(That's the b-air :laugh:)

[Shanky]

Yeah, it's not something you should spam but I still use it once or twice in a match when I can catch my opponents off guard.

Oh and don't forget the SH N-air, thats a good one...

WuTungDude, you're from Tucson, I lived there for like 10 years, went to HS there...

[WuTangDude]

Yeah, it's not something you should spam but I still use it once or twice in a match when I can catch my opponents off guard.

Oh and don't forget the SH N-air, thats a good one...

WuTungDude, you're from Tucson, I lived there for like 10 years, went to HS there...

I've lived here my entire life. I love the place. Sorry for going off-topic, guys. :bee:

[TriforceCore]

I seriously need to get out of that habit.

[mr_kennedy44]

Completely true. When I first unlocked Toon Link he became my main instantly partially because of d-air. After a while though I'm like "wait a minute this move is so predictable". After a while though I dropped Toon Link in favor of Lucas (who didn't last long). I began to really hate Toon Link just because everybody spams d-air. if a Toon Link is over you 90% of the time a d-air is coming your way.

After watching a Toon Link combo video today it inspired me to pick him up again as one of my mains.

[Moka]

I use it once, at most, out of 3 matches. I always am amazed when people use it a lot off the stage. A little too risky for my taste. Always amazed at people who can't see it coming a mile away and get hit by it when they should have dodged, shielded, or even got out of the way.

[edde]

his dair never got my attention... what got it was the boomerang that worked like link's old and it was actually a really agile link that could easily displace from place to place of the field, also mentioning he is quite killer and has a good air game

[WuTangDude]

Completely true. When I first unlocked Toon Link he became my main instantly partially because of d-air. After a while though I'm like "wait a minute this move is so predictable". After a while though I dropped Toon Link in favor of Lucas (who didn't last long). I began to really hate Toon Link just because everybody spams d-air. if a Toon Link is over you 90% of the time a d-air is coming your way.

After watching a Toon Link combo video today it inspired me to pick him up again as one of my mains.


Same here except for the dumping TL as a main part. :p

I just wanted to warn the newer TL mains not to fall into that nasty habit.

[DamianDDDDD]

Same here except for the dumping TL as a main part. :p

I just wanted to warn the newer TL mains not to fall into that nasty habit.
Thanks for the advice. I don't own the game, but i played it wednesday. There are some videos on my YouTube-profile (See my signature) of me playing Toon Link. I think i've used the Dair too much. I know what i need to improve for the next time:

-Less Dair
-More Bair
-More boomerang
-More Usmash
-More shielding

[Umby]

Don't forget Arrows. Arrows are II gud.

[QUIVO]

Dair is ok in certain situations, I'm usually against using it so much... especially double jumped dairs. SHdair is better.


I honestly like the nair more than bair.. but I probably use it just as much as bair.

[LinkSpecialist]

If you use the D-air to edgeguard, only one thing is certain: Only one shall return to the stage.

Had to get that off my chest, carry on.

[Onichi]

i concur, when i pick up T. Link or Link, i always try to SH the D-air. It solved points 1 and 2.
3 is very situational , and it is rare that you can hit and DI back. As for #4, if you hit them with as many as possible, its not an issue. It is only when you miss. I usually can DI and bounce hit when they have low %, or if they have high % Fast fall after the connect so you can at least recover faster (you still get the land lag, but if you connect they are flying.)

But I took this all as common sense. /shrug

[nukethemall73]

i use it a fair bit in just for laugh matches, wouldnt ever in a remotely serious match, apart from if they are on the ledge, w/o invincibility frames and i can spike them off it, without any risk to myself. or on pirate ship and delfino plaza :D

[Umby]

i concur, when i pick up T. Link or Link, i always try to SH the D-air. It solved points 1 and 2.
3 is very situational , and it is rare that you can hit and DI back. As for #4, if you hit them with as many as possible, its not an issue. It is only when you miss. I usually can DI and bounce hit when they have low %, or if they have high % Fast fall after the connect so you can at least recover faster (you still get the land lag, but if you connect they are flying.)

But I took this all as common sense. /shrug

SH Dair for Link is cool shield pressure no doubt, but for Toon Link, your forward momentum is stopped, so you'd have to be right over the guy's head, and in close quarters I highly doubt that flies. You might as well space with SH Nair/Fair.

As for Double Jumping the Dair, why? You're going through so much trouble with a situational move when you could be racking up damage with SH Nair/Fair and Bow Canceling, not to mention spacing, which is what Toon Link excels at.

Dair should really only be used (when not risking your life for a spike) as a surprise attack from a mid aerial range or when someone (like Sonic) is chasing you in the air.

[Onichi]

SH Dair for Link is cool shield pressure no doubt, but for Toon Link, your forward momentum is stopped, so you'd have to be right over the guy's head, and in close quarters I highly doubt that flies. You might as well space with SH Nair/Fair.

As for Double Jumping the Dair, why? You're going through so much trouble with a situational move when you could be racking up damage with SH Nair/Fair and Bow Canceling, not to mention spacing, which is what Toon Link excels at.

Dair should really only be used (when not risking your life for a spike) as a surprise attack from a mid aerial range or when someone (like Sonic) is chasing you in the air.

I see where you are going, and your right, for shield pressure Link's is far better. On the T.Link side once you connect with the shield, D-air's initial momentum is stopped, and your free to DI the same as Link's, allowing shield pressure, or shield stabbing with the bounce the same as one from Link. Ah the beauty of 'clones.'

If your mixing your aerials up, as you approach and notice they have shielded you can (and I have) used D-air to be above them, directly and having my hurtbox outside of their grab range, or better yet hit them as they drop their shield to attack.

When you get someone to get into any pattern you can change it up and fake them out.

So in short, situational attack at its finest.

[Umby]

I don't see what kind of spacing you can do with dair that Nair wouldn't solve. Though, I do relate on mixing things up.

edit: Btw, I'm not trying to argue that dair is completely useless in practical purposes, but I would like to negate the advocacy of spamming it everywhere, as well as any reasons that would hint that it's ok to do so.

[Onichi]

I hear ya Umby, I'm trying not to be pro-spam (i have a hard enough time with being flamed at all as a Pit main ><) but I hate wasting any part of any move-set, one of the things i hated about Melee.

Its not so much spacing, as delaying an action, your using the momentum, and general floatiness of TL to move close and above your opponent during the SH. So your a half character length above your target, instead of next to them and in grab range. Shield-grabbing is the biggest tactic right now and is the most used, so its good to try and get around it, especially with an aerial beast like TL.

As for the Nair, if they hold the shield longer, and where you are in relation to them to hit with it, you can't shield pressure. If your going for that you are going to get grabbed.

You have to have a good idea where to use every move in your arsenal, or else you'll miss your opportunity.

[Umby]

True too, though I've never had a Nair shield grabbed unless I completely ****ed up my spacing.

[ph00tbag]

It's a stall-then-fall. In general, that constitutes a bad move. But as far as STFs go, it's pretty good, for it's ability to bounce. As long as you DI away after bouncing, you should be safe. Definitely only use it to punish laggy shield pressure, though.

[3transfat]

I find dair to be extremely good if you have plenty of upward momentum.
This causes you to completely skip the stall and float downwards, while retaining the spike.

Maybe my usual opponent is stupid, which probably is the case, but any time he tries to attack, my dair still out-prioritizes him.

[Ryos4]

well i think its a really good attack. Atleast for a few uses.
For me its a great counter attack when u are hit up and the person always tries to chase you down. Right when they get close thats when u jump and go straight into a down aerial. It works on really aggressive or heavy combo players.
It also can be used to do the Dair float or w/e its called here.
I also use it at low altitudes where people tend to not expect it, which would send people up to allow you to continue a combo u already started or start a new one.
At low % it can also combo, ive done about almost 50% damage in a Dair combo when they start at really low %s.

Its probably one of my more used toon link attacks. As long as you dont use super openly where its super easy to predict, for example jumping over them just so u can do it

Course this is just my opinion..

[mlgc4]

wu tang your not smart ,the dair is very good perhaps toon links best air move next to his up-air.
=]

[Umby]

Dair is good. It just shouldn't be used a means of approach or spammed alot.

[JesiahTEG]

It's one of Toon Link's subpar moves. The TC is right...Stick with his other 3 aerials, but use it when you know it will connect.

For example, vs Snake's recovery, or Bowser's recovery, or any character with a set trajectory as their recovery.

[Ryos4]

Idk i hardly ever use his Uair. most of the time its easily dodged. Everyone sees it coming, im never able to connect it. I connect the Dair like 30 times more often then i do the U air. If ur gonna use any sort of aerial to hit people who are above u. The Bair is a much better choice. They tend to dodge it less, just because there its harder to tell when ur going to use it.

[WuTangDude]

wu tang your not smart ,the dair is very good perhaps toon links best air move next to his up-air.
=]

Sure buddy. :embarrass

I'm definitly not smart, all 0 of your points to why I'm wrong proved that.

Idk i hardly ever use his Uair. most of the time its easily dodged. Everyone sees it coming, im never able to connect it. I connect the Dair like 30 times more often then i do the U air. If ur gonna use any sort of aerial to hit people who are above u. The Bair is a much better choice. They tend to dodge it less, just because there its harder to tell when ur going to use it.

Who do you play against? If it's comps of any sort, they don't sense the D-air at all (as I've already said), which is why you're landing such massive %'s.

Against even a semi-skilled player, it will 95% of the time be dodged.

[Umby]

If you land dair more than uair, you might want to switch up your playstyle. Uair is important to land on floaty characters, since more often than not, you need to get them KO'd off the top.

[FrostByte]

Dair should be one of TL's least used aerials imo, it's too situational. It's the most unsafe spike to use at the edge in the game, and even worse given brawl's defence buffs. The % range for comboing into it is very small too. It does combo itself into nair/bair at low % though.

Nair is rape and completely safe
Fair is pretty rape too (much better than link's)
Uair is probably his best aerial to KO, if you can excuse the lag
Bair is sodomysauce.

[mlgc4]

dair is rape serious I use dairs in my combos,to get quick damge done,for shield pressure and use it to tech chase with .

[Clevr]

Cash rules everything around me CREAM get the money... dollah dollah bills, y'all.

Good stuff.

D-Air is pretty awful when spammed. However, if you save it until the end of the game when the percentages are high, it can be a great tactic to catch somebody when they least expect it to send them flying into the air, ready to get F-Air'ed into oblivion.

U-Air is actually surprisingly useful, and really isn't used much, to my astonishment. TL's sword stays up for such a long time! This is a good thing if you're very high in the air, or if you're catching them near the stage before they land. They'll do quick Air Dodge, let go, try to counter, and TL's sword will still be there, out prioritizing their attack, and sending them up very high (it's also extremely powerful).

[WuTangDude]

Cash rules everything around me CREAM get the money... dollah dollah bills, y'all.

Good stuff.

D-Air is pretty awful when spammed. However, if you save it until the end of the game when the percentages are high, it can be a great tactic to catch somebody when they least expect it to send them flying into the air, ready to get F-Air'ed into oblivion.

U-Air is actually surprisingly useful, and really isn't used much, to my astonishment. TL's sword stays up for such a long time! This is a good thing if you're very high in the air, or if you're catching them near the stage before they land. They'll do quick Air Dodge, let go, try to counter, and TL's sword will still be there, out prioritizing their attack, and sending them up very high (it's also extremely powerful).


They're my favorite group (Nas is my favorite solo rapper though)!

And I often use u-air as a kill move. U-air, U-smash, and F-air and F-smash, those are my favorite kill moves (in no particular order)

[WuTangDude]

Cash rules everything around me CREAM get the money... dollah dollah bills, y'all.

Good stuff.

D-Air is pretty awful when spammed. However, if you save it until the end of the game when the percentages are high, it can be a great tactic to catch somebody when they least expect it to send them flying into the air, ready to get F-Air'ed into oblivion.

U-Air is actually surprisingly useful, and really isn't used much, to my astonishment. TL's sword stays up for such a long time! This is a good thing if you're very high in the air, or if you're catching them near the stage before they land. They'll do quick Air Dodge, let go, try to counter, and TL's sword will still be there, out prioritizing their attack, and sending them up very high (it's also extremely powerful).


They're my favorite group (Nas is my favorite solo rapper though)!

And I often use u-air as a kill move. U-air, U-smash, and F-air and F-smash, those are my favorite kill moves (in no particular order)

[Clevr]

They're my favorite group (Nas is my favorite solo rapper though)!

And I often use u-air as a kill move. U-air, U-smash, and F-air and F-smash, those are my favorite kill moves (in no particular order)

They're definitely one of the better groups out there.

I've never seen them as a whole live, but last summer I saw RZA, and I'm seeing Ghostface this summer. Should be great.

F-smash is a little too laggy for me. Never liked it much. I prefer Dash to U-smash, then U-Air // F-Air. Once they're up there, they're done for.

[courte]

or it can simply be used... i dunno correctly