[Updated 12/27/08] VietGeek's God Awful Toon Link Videos (2 Tourney Sets)

[VietGeek]

Whatever, just look at my newest videos, critique, hate whatever. Watch it progress throughout the bitter months?

Videos:

December

Tournament

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Dynomite (Marth) [1/2] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llzh9wXQU-s)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Dynomite (Marth) [2/2] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm6bg3iJM4c)

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Noir/Ninja (Meta Knight) [1/3] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhF14APxcA)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Noir/Ninja (Diddy Kong) [2/3] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIxNM80BI-U)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Noir/Ninja (Diddy Kong) [3/3] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N-D2_wg2u4)

November

$1 Money Match

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Dynomite (Marth) [1/4] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjDtxYmrmhA)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Dynomite (Marth) [2/4] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlQlZVI-Lz4)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Dynomite (Marth) [3/4] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s830n8oU1e8)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Dynomite (Marth) [4/4] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p97SChUrHdM)

VietGeek (Blue Toon Link) vs. KingK (NES Toon Link) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVImT9SEIQ)

October

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Lv.99 (ROB) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK1LhsyXz3Y)

September

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. OcTIx (Lucario) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMmRdKhKVB4)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Lv.99 (Wolf) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQXa_dtxcY)

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Desire (Fox) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMYXzqGN9Xk)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Desire (Lucas) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyQ7-qSxJ_4)

VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Lv.99 (Wolf) [1/3] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkoR6byQ7P8)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Lv.99 (Wolf) [2/3] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV-RUNSuDXY)
VietGeek (Toon Link) vs. Lv.99 (Wolf) [3/3] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0zznTOHC0)

[Ørion]

Hi, I'm sorry but I don't think many people here will download a zip file from a random link on smashboards.... Just see if you can borrow a video camera and record the replay on your wii and upload it to youtube.

[VietGeek]

Or I can ask you if you have recording equipment.

Do you have recording equipment yourself? Even just a random video camera? =P

Seriously, I'll even send these via Wi-Fi if necessary. I'm out of money to buy equipment (used it all to buy Wii+Brawl), and haven't even come close to winning any tourney I've come across. I can't get a random video camera because all my acquaintances just throw out stuff they don't need anymore. >_>

[YumClock]

I'm about to buy a Sony Handycam or some variation with a hard disk drive, I'll see what I can do.
This'll be like a month though, so if you're still desperate, you can ask me.
Or aaaaayum at Youtube, he has currently given me all of my vids.
though he's not very trusting. and we still have 10 more videos to upload.

[VietGeek]

Err, a bump for great justice? I finally got my videos up, but the quality is questionable (shakes fist in frustration toward Youtube).

Oh, and it was very kind of you to offer me such a thing YumClock. =)

[JesiahTEG]

Ugh, it's so hard to tell people's skill level from videos in Brawl.

[VietGeek]

Well, I'm not driving up to NY just to try to prove to you anything. xD

At least complain about something. You know you can't resist.

[JesiahTEG]

Nah dude, I'm not saying you're bad lol...I'm just saying, it's just so hard to tell in Brawl.

Um, you did everything well I thought, just some random mistakes that everyone makes, like pulling out projectiles at close range, attacking and not DI'ing away to keep spacing...Those kinds of things..

Also, will you be at Critical Hit 3? I'll be there, and in addition to getting some Toon Link matches in, I'll play you in Marth dittos. My favorite matchup xD.

[VietGeek]

Thanks for the input, I'll try to...not make mistakes? I don't know, I didn't find something witty or epic to comment back on your feedback (because I expected to be more ridiculed for some reason).

As for Critical Hit 3: I would, but I only recently entered the tourney scene, so I rather be keeping close to home now (gas prices don't help either). Not only that, but I'm 14 (therefore not driving legal), last, I don't spam (in a good way) side-B enough in Marth dittos. Still gotta work on that before I aim for teh munniez.

Someday though, someday we'll have those dittos.

[VietGeek]

Bump I guess. Because it seems no one even attempts to look down to the 2/3rd of the front page anymore. >_>

Come on people, Anti-Christ can't get all your criticism. Split it with this guy you've never heard of. Or else.

[Lobos]

Well it seems like you have all the Techniques down. Just need some work on the mind games.

[VietGeek]

Well it seems like you have all the Techniques down. Just need some work on the mind games.

Umm, even if I did do a mindgame, how could you tell? What constitutes as a mindgame? I'm asking because my friend does say I do occasional mindgames (probably not every match though), but it's difficult per say to "work" on mindgames (or even know for sure you did such a thing). Sure, I can try to be witty, but most people won't notice it though.

But enough philosophical discussions about mindgames, lol. Is that the only thing I have to work on?

If so, I'll be focusing on fixing up my Marth now. He's kinda rusty.

If not, please do tell if there's anything crucial I need to improve on. I'm trying to do a balancing act with my two characters here in terms of practice (and it's difficult enough to keep two characters polished, so I don't see how the heck some people can have 4-5 "mains").

Thanks for the critique nonetheless.

[stevensteve]

try not to do so many smashes that leave u in vulnerable positions.

in the pikachu videoes, the pikachu does either one of two things: thunder or grab. you can easily avoid both with proper spacing. of course, the pikachu can spam thunder jolts but i don't think the pika player knew the move existed

[VietGeek]

try not to do so many smashes that leave u in vulnerable positions.

in the pikachu videoes, the pikachu does either one of two things: thunder or grab. you can easily avoid both with proper spacing. of course, the pikachu can spam thunder jolts but i don't think the pika player knew the move existed

He knew it existed, and I actually told him to start using it, but refused to for some reason. All I can say is scrub. <_<

Yeah, I've been trying to tone down all the smashes too. I rely on them somewhat less now.

As for being grabbed and Thundered, I don't think I did too badly avoiding either. Grabs maybe a lot worst, but I think the Thunder spam was for the most part (save 2 or 3 occasions) avoided and punished if possible. I'll work on not getting grabbed so often though, or at all if possible.

Thanks for the critique, will work on what you mentioned.

[VietGeek]

Last bump for the week. Tell me everything you'd like and I'll improve over the weekend.

Please don't hate me because TL's my secondary (and not my main), hate me because I constantly harass you to speak up in this thread. =)

[3transfat]

Very nice. You've got the tech skill down. You just need to work on the mindgames, as said previously.

I also play someone who refuses to play better. In Melee, they refused to wavedash/L-Cancel. In Brawl, they refuse to cape/F.L.U.D.D.

I don't understand.

[VietGeek]

Hmm, well, I guess my tech skill is good enough that I'm confident in it, so about these mindgames...

I've heard around these boards praise for Anti and his mindgames. I've only watch him on Battlefield vs. Dark_Meow's Peach and the one with 7734's DK.

Now, he's good. However, his opponents usually chase him. DK has no projectile game, and Peach's projectile game is inferior overall (still a staple of her game, but it's not on par with TL's).

I fight high-pressure opponents. By high-pressure, I mean I don't usually have the time to throw bombs every. I've incorporated more bomb throwing in my game, with my decent boomerang throws and my tech-skill spamming arrows, but against R.O.B, most generally do this:

- Shoot laser at beginning of match (I shield)
- Charge Gyro (SHDA, arrows negate momentum of Gyro)
- Should ROB attempt to pick it up and throw it at me (eat it with a shield)
- ROB approaches because his projectiles don't work (reverse SHDA Battlechrist-style to set up for Bairs and punish) If possible I go offstage with him and attempt to Fair him off, or Nair if his percentage is high enough, or gimp him if he's low enough. If I need to get back on stage and he's still off, I usually throw a curved boomerang and then Fair him again.

After 1st stock loss, I'd generally have to run away from him and be uber defensive until the invincibly wears off (or run away and throw-jump-cancel a bomb). I'd rinse and repeat, and throw in some bombs (SH pull bomb, arrow cancel, SH C-stick throw bomb, arrow cancel).

Generally, this works so well against ROB because it counters the staple of his game: camping. By forcing him to approach, you already hinder him a great deal.

So now I ask, how can I effectively use bombs to pressure the foe even more so?

Or, to ask it in a more casual way:

How do I spam bombs like 666 while still 3-stocking ROBs?

I know that this was a long post. But help me out here. My Marth improves with each passing day, but my Toon Link seems to have reached a halt after I perfected my tech skill.

I don't want my Toon Link to fall behind.

Need good number of responses to this; will have more videos soon.

[gkrackerr]

hmm...

well, I watched a few matches of 666, and he used bombs a lot, like a lot a lot, but only effectively a few times. Most of the time he threw them into areas that wouldn't affect or hinder his opponents movements and it would feel kind of wasted. Then again, it seemed to work, so I'm not gonna go and say that his strategy is bad or incorrect.

But, what I can tell you from watching young-link players in melee, and some good TL players in brawl, is that you should primarily use your bombs as a way to open up parts in your opponents defenses, or clear a path for you. TL's bombs chip away at the opponents shield along with his aerials. It's then that you can catch them with a well spaced nair or d-smash (shield poking). And also, quite clearly, his bombs are wonderful for pressuring. A few times I have seen TLs SH bomb pull and arrow, jump cancel a bomb throw, have it bounce off the opponents shield and then catch it/toss it again as they jump over the opponent. They are wonderful for mindgames and saving you from a large hit at the last second (like you can air-dodge and buffer a z-drop and have the bomb hit you/your opponent as they try to hit you with a strong aerial).

Spamming with bombs is alright, but it's not the most affective thing. I believe that you should just try and work bombs into your gameplay at those moments where you have pauses. Say for instance you bair your opponents shield and they roll back or spot dodge, if you can't punish it, then double jump and pull a bomb. You can sh bomb pull and arrow, or you can fair/nair/bair, double jump bomb pull and toss it downward or z-drop as you retreat.

The bombs are really quite good for TL. I just think that they are more situational, as opposed to TL's arrows which he can spam from a distance.

EDIT: Well, I went and re-watched the 666 vids. I wanna take back what I said about his bomb use not being too effective. He does use them intelligently at times, but it seems more like his opponent not knowing how to respond. Like instead of air-dodging and catching them, they'll shield and just wait there, or they'll get hit by it.

[VietGeek]

Oh, nice, someone responded. Yeah, I'll try to work on that. I loved bombs in Melee, but for some reason, they don't have that...flare in Brawl (no, I do not think that made any sense).

Regardless, I have been trying to incorporate more bombs into my TL game. I'll probably post more videos after I've improved a bit more.

Thanks for the in-depth analysis of bomb usage. =)

[VietGeek]

Lame bump.

Help meh.

[Santi]

I was taken out of my last tourney I entered from a ROB so I dont have much to contribute on the Matchup.

But I do like watching these and learning how you handle the dumb robot.
Your Toon is much faster than it was in the previous videos.
Just keep practicing and work on your spacing a little more.

And your still pulling out stuff to close to your opponent
like at
:12
and
:24- you dint get punished here. lucky dog.

Also be careful with using Dair on stage.
You didn't spam that which is good.

I aslo liked how you used the UpB on the stage.
Just aslo be careful with that. Especially I think it was on your first stock... you were high percent and used the Up B and missed. You could of been killed there.


And I applaud you for using tilts.
Good Job.
Not alot of Toons use many tilts.
I know I could do them more in my gameplay.


That uptilt is pretty fast and you killed Rob with it on his last two stocks. very nice.

[VietGeek]

Yeah I need to watch out for pulling stuff out so close to an opponent.
The Up-B was a joke that that ROB would always roll into it and get hit. It happened a lot prior to me recording so I did another one for fun. I'll try to be more serious in friendlies though.

Thanks for the critique. I think not trying to use projectiles too close will be my main thing to improve on =)

EDIT: Whoa, I used a lot of Dairs on the ROB battle. I never noticed it until you said something. Funny that I didn't use it once vs. Marth though.

[Santi]

Yeah I need to watch out for pulling stuff out so close to an opponent.
The Up-B was a joke that that ROB would always roll into it and get hit. It happened a lot prior to me recording so I did another one for fun. I'll try to be more serious in friendlies though.

Thanks for the critique. I think not trying to use projectiles too close will be my main thing to improve on =)

Def.
That will save you from alot of damage that your getting.
Just keep thinking mid range

thats where TL will own hard.

[VietGeek]

Well, Santi told me the most important thing: Don't use projectiles up close, but does anyone else have anything to say?

Oh, and just to clarify Santi: Do you mean don't pull out bombs up close or projectiles altogether. Just want to confirm because you're all-knowing and stuff. xD

[QUIVO]

Learn the character more. There were better things you could've done. For example you would just use uair when he was behind you, instead you could've done a bair. Bair when they airdodge since you can get two of them off and have a better chance of hitting them. Also, mindgames could always need work.

Btw I only watched two of the ROB matches and the ROB seemed a bit inexperienced. Good **** though

[VietGeek]

Learn the character more. There were better things you could've done. For example you would just use uair when he was behind you, instead you could've done a bair. Bair when they airdodge since you can get two of them off and have a better chance of hitting them. Also, mindgames could always need work.

Btw I only watched two of the ROB matches and the ROB seemed a bit inexperienced. Good **** though

Yup, Toon Link not being my main means I don't know how to use him as well say those who main him and picked up around launch and not in the middle of May, lol. Of course that's why I set up this thread, so you guys can nag me until I get better.

I always thought that since Uair has a lingering hitbox that I could follow the airdodge and it'll work (which also looked like the case here >_>). But yeah, what you're saying makes sense Quivo. Bair will probably work better for the most part.

Aside from the June 21st videos, the older ones is when the ROB player was still picking him up. In the middle of May. You see where I'm going with this? lol.

So let's see...

- Don't use projectiles up close.
- Mid-range camping and stuff is 1337.
- Learn Toon Link better.
- Mindgames. Like with the Falchion but with projectiles.
- Learn to use better moves in certain situations.
- Don't go back to that urge to Dair giant robots.
- Don't goof off in friendlies so people can stop saying you sandbag so much.
- ???
- I don't think I can profit off Toon Link. <__<

Thanks Santi and Quivo. I would give you guys cookies but I can't prepare palatable food.

[kkkoala]

more arrows
mix up ur air game. u were trying to get off uair too much on marth, 1 specific time i was like "whyd u uair a bair would of him um :(" in my mind...

nice zair+bomb combos though
and i too applaud ur on stage upB's

i didnt rly watch the old ones, i mean u were all like im just warming tl up and etc, but u should make some more vids of diff match ups imo

[QUIVO]

I understand you don't main him and the guy was just picking him up. It's all good. Just telling you to learn a bit more about TL. You'll just naturally pick up things that are good and bad.

[VietGeek]

more arrows
mix up ur air game. u were trying to get off uair too much on marth, 1 specific time i was like "whyd u uair a bair would of him um :(" in my mind...

nice zair+bomb combos though
and i too applaud ur on stage upB's

i didnt rly watch the old ones, i mean u were all like im just warming tl up and etc, but u should make some more vids of diff match ups imo

More arrows? Are you sure? Because...I feel like I use a lot of arrows already (well, I've been doing retreating Nairs to arrow lately, kinda like Marth's retreating Fair; not really seen in these videos) so I think I actually spam arrows. o_O

Hmm, yeah, Quivo kinda implied the same thing. The first Uair in the Marth match I missed. But yes, I was kinda spamming my main aerial kill move a little too much in that match. At 2:12-2:14 was what you're talking about, right? Yeah, that was stupid, I should have tried to chain Bairs or go for Fair if I knew he would DI in front of me.

Yeah, don't watch the old ones unless you want to see how I've improved. I'll try to get more match-ups for Toon Link next time. Most of my Toon Link replays are past 3 minutes though, which is why I had a problem showing off more stuff (should bring my DVD recorder next time).

[VietGeek]

Updating this because I want views. <_<

Also...

yeah, just want some views guys.

[sasukebowser]

Dam son. =O

[Santi]

You already know what I think.

[l SOUP l]

Holy **** VG you got like 9000 times better :o. Awesome job. Your zair was so hawt I had an
orgasm<--- true fact

[virtuososteve]

Personally I though u were awsome, i loved ur combo w/ the z-air and f-smash

[sasukebowser]

I challenge you to a Marth ditto Viet.
D=
And maybe a TL one.

[VietGeek]

I challenge you to a Marth ditto Viet.
D=
And maybe a TL one.

You're on the most western side of the US, and I'm on the most eastern one.

Bad things will happen, lol.

[sasukebowser]

You're on the most western side of the US, and I'm on the most eastern one.

Bad things will happen, lol.

Then I vote we meet up in Texas. =)
lol
I call black Marth. >_>

[Lobos]

Your TL really shows improvement. I like how more TL mains are using the zair into their game now *tear*

[drudge]

I haven't tried it yet so this might be a dumb question but, is there a special tech involved with the bomb pull and zair? i was under the impression that the zair would cause the bomb to drop in mid air.

[VietGeek]

I haven't tried it yet so this might be a dumb question but, is there a special tech involved with the bomb pull and zair? i was under the impression that the zair would cause the bomb to drop in mid air.

You have to airdodge before you use the Hookshot.