The Dair Spike

[Demenise]

I've been watching a lot of Toon Link videos, and something disturbed me about most of them: there was little to no dair spiking. If you get spiked off of the stage, there's no way you're coming back (unless it's high up.) So, what's holding people back from the spike? The only thing that I can think of is that missing is a suicide, but if you do it right, there's no way to miss.

[Recognize]

The search button has granted your wish.

Actually I did but whatever.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167544&highlight=dair

[Professional Idiot]

I've been watching a lot of Toon Link videos, and something disturbed me about most of them: there was little to no dair spiking. If you get spiked off of the stage, there's no way you're coming back (unless it's high up.) So, what's holding people back from the spike? The only thing that I can think of is that missing is a suicide, but if you do it right, there's no way to miss.

It's probably easier for the opponent to avoid such a linear spike than it is for Toon Link to find a scenario in which they cannot avoid it.

[Recognize]

It's probably easier for the opponent to avoid such a linear spike than it is for Toon Link to find a scenario in which they cannot avoid it.

We dont need ur kind round in these here parts O' town.

[Demenise]

What if you use it when you're almost overlapping them? Or, what if it's used after a footstool jump? Basically, pretending that it had the range of Link's dair, wouldn't that make it that much more accurate?

[Recognize]

Jesus what more do you need answered. People aren't THAT stupid to get caught in a situation like that. Any decent TL player knows never to Dair unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure they cant AD. It's hard to tell when to use this. IDK if you play with real people or whatever but Dair spiking a CPU is not the same as trying to Dair spike a real person. CPU's aren't aware of when you dair them. It's been proven time and time again.

[Demenise]

I NEVER play with CPUs. I'd NEVER base anything off of a CPU, I'm not an idiot. I already know not to spam the dair; I knew that before trying out Toon Link. It's no more than common sense. I'm trying to see if there are ways to incorporate the dair spike into gameplay for trickery or whatever. I know there are ways to avoid it, but there's ALWAYS a possibility of some combo or some way to set up for a spike.

[TehBo49]

The spike is very situational. Most opponents can avoid it easily. You should only use it if you're 100% sure you'll land it. Besides, it's not like Toon Link needs to rely on it anyway.

[Recognize]

I NEVER play with CPUs. I'd NEVER base anything off of a CPU, I'm not an idiot. I already know not to spam the dair; I knew that before trying out Toon Link. It's no more than common sense. I'm trying to see if there are ways to incorporate the dair spike into gameplay for trickery or whatever. I know there are ways to avoid it, but there's ALWAYS a possibility of some combo or some way to set up for a spike.


There are already combos for this. Look at Edde's Tips thread and watch this video of Hylian.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164283

[Hype]

Knowing when to use Toon links D air is a risk : reward decision. you can almost never be sure your spike will land (unless after a footstool). I am more likely to go for spikes if im at 150% and my opponant is at a very low percentage becasuse its not a huge loss to lose a stock that you were probebly going to lose next time you got hit but, it's hugh for your opponant who died at like 16%. it's all about risk and reward thats why everyone likes to spike people in water, almost no risk.

[WuTangDude]

The search button has granted your wish.

Actually I did but whatever.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167544&highlight=dair

I was just about to post a link to this (I'm the dude who made it :p).

Toon Link's D-AIR IS NOT GOOD! :dizzy:

[Coselm]

I'm surprised at how few TL users know that you can Dair spike someone while remaining on the stage.

[the melon!!!!!]

I'm surprised at how few TL users know that you can Dair spike someone while remaining on the stage.

I know!!! That is probly the only use for the Dair with TL other than annoying the crap out of someone with it by bunnyhopping (i don't do it unless i'm not taking the match seriously, but it is useful as a mindgame for those with the mental capacity of a piece of cheese)(i call it that...when you use the DL to bounce off their shield, usually gets the opponent into a false sense of security and they try to roll, but they fail and get hit by it, which allows you to start a combo if it is at low damage). The Dair i say is just not safe as a spike when off the edge, and this new thing with it on the edge is more than useful. Do that instead at moments. If you keep doin what your doin, than you is gonna die lots.

[TLMarth]

Well it's sort of hard to get it right... could you post some videos where in matches every single stock where you edgeguard you kill them with a dair?
Yes, it is the missing. The airdodge is incredibly annoying.

[Coselm]

So yea... The Dair's hitbox is not jsut the sword, it is pretty much all of TL, if you guys didn't realize that.

If I could play a match where I kill someone every stock with a Dair through the edge than I would be god.

It is easier on some characters that others.

Some easy ways to get it are to be standing on the very edge facing towards the stage. try to grab your opponent and throw them back. If they try to recover instantly or from below, you can ump and immediately dair and you will land a spike if they are in the right position. If you miss, big whoop... You don't die like all these other TLs are doing trying to get the spike off. You will rarely land this spike tactic on a good player, if at all.

The only way to land the through the edge, no chance of killing yourself spike is by learning characters recoveries, specific player's recovery habits, and plainly just by tricking people.

[Jellyfishn]

Well with a lot of practice, if you throw a bomb down just right off the edge, it can lead them right into a dair.

[sasukebowser]

if you do it right

lol if you do it right

[greatone_12]

I don't see the big issue with toon links d-air, I know wolf and marth have spikes that are also near impossible to recover from since they give enough downward speed to make recovery really hard. I think spikes in general are really risky and I wouldn't try them against a human player unlesss I was losing/winning really badly .

[sasukebowser]

I don't see the big issue with toon links d-air, I know wolf and marth have spikes that are also near impossible to recover from since they give enough downward speed to make recovery really hard. I think spikes in general are really risky and I wouldn't try them against a human player unlesss I was losing/winning really badly .

Well the thing about wolfs and Marths are that you can jump and immediately use Dair, so you probably won't have any trouble recovering. But besides that yeah I get what you mean.

[Aziel]

I've been watching a lot of Toon Link videos, and something disturbed me about most of them: there was little to no dair spiking. If you get spiked off of the stage, there's no way you're coming back (unless it's high up.) So, what's holding people back from the spike? The only thing that I can think of is that missing is a suicide, but if you do it right, there's no way to miss.

"If you do it right." You mean if you can manipulate certain factors that are completely out of your control, such as smart DI, air dodging at proper moments, and making it so that it's completely unpredictable? Please, any experienced player when going against a Toon Link knows that one of the hugest things to be wary of is the D-air whenever TL is above them. The only way it'd really be a reliable way to pull it off would be either against a character with a bad recovery, such as snake, or to B-air combo into, which, to be honest can still be air dodged out of. It's used sparingly for the fact that it's predictable. Not to mention its stall-and-fall mechanic doesn't really decrease it's predictability. And lastly, if you miss, you will die. No exceptions.

[Antichrist]

I've been watching a lot of Toon Link videos, and something disturbed me about most of them: there was little to no dair spiking. If you get spiked off of the stage, there's no way you're coming back (unless it's high up.) So, what's holding people back from the spike? The only thing that I can think of is that missing is a suicide, but if you do it right, there's no way to miss.

watch my vids on youtube

[3transfat]

Toon Link's dair is more useful in teams than one on one.
In teams, someone is less likely to notice if you're about to spike them if you're both on stage.

On 1v1, it's better to get them airborn from the ground to use an usmash or a uair.

[Hype]

The only times I use my dair is in water and perdicable recoverier (somtimes on the map too). I play regularly against a falco main, if I can get him below stage level (via downsmash at low percents) I spike him while he stalling in his up B almost every time.

[huenikad]

I love his dair just for fun games. It's great fun to play a game and spike my brother 3 times. Otherwise I never really use it off the stage.