UnderWing
08-22-2008, 07:19 AM
Ok, "Jew and Magoo" posted a thread posing the question "Why is TL not higher tier, when he has no/few disadvantages?" (paraphrased)
Sorry, hate to break it to everyone here, but -- TL has disadvantages. TL, I'd daresay, has a lot of disadvantages. Some obvious, some not-so-obvious. I actually wrote the majority of this post as a reply to the aforementioned thread, but I thought it would be more appropriate as a stand-alone discussion. So, this thread is to discuss TL's disadvantages and how to counteract them with your playstyle.
Really quickly, before I state my observations, to get it out of the way -- the following stuff is what I've observed as a TL player, and watching other TL players -- I've seen what works, I've seen what doesn't work. I don't really have any up-to-date videos online, right now, and I'm obviously not a very well known player in this section of the community -- I read here frequently, post in spurts (mainly 'cause of how long my posts end up being). I'm no "pro", and I have no misconceptions of being one -- I have, however, been playing TL as my main since Brawl launched, and I got into the tourney scene here in SoCal as early as it started. I've stayed active, and participated in what probably averages out to about 2 tournaments a month, 3 since summer started. My placing hasn't been high, but not low either. So I've been able to observe a lot of play, in person, and I've been able to test what works and what doesn't in the tournament scene. I don't play online, so all of the following observations have been from in-person experimentation and observation. Here we go:
Toon Link's obvious weaknesses are that a) he's light, which leads to early deaths when you get hit, and b) he's tricky to kill with, since you need to use techniques and combos just to open kill opportunities. These two result in a lower-than-average "death zone", or % where you're a hit away from death, and a higher-than-average "kill zone", since (even though his moves kill at fairly decent percentages) he has trouble setting up kills. This means they're living longer than they maybe "should", and you're dying earlier than you maybe "should". Now, his maneuverability (proper spacing) and recovery can counter both of these points to an extent, as you can prevent taking the damage/hits in the first place by evading the attacks, and you can put yourself in the kill position by tricking your enemies and setting up combos. The ability to do these things is something that's vital to playing TL, and effectiveness in this area is the one of the major differences between a good TL and a great one.
But that's the surface of the issue. Another of TL's weaknesses is that most of his killing relies on one of two things -- gimping a recovery, or killing vertically (there's a huge vertical element to most of TL's kill moves). There are easy counters to either of these, and they can be combined to make a hard matchup for TL. For one, gimping is harder in Brawl, and the simple counter is one of the "floaters", or multi-jump characters. TL has a lot of strength off the ledge, and it's what lets him set up so many gimps oftentimes -- if you send a character out far enough, they have to follow a certain general path of recovery, and that predictability lets TL show his off-ledge strength. But in Brawl, there's enough strong characters who have more recovery than they could ever need -- MK and Pit can easily go under a level, or fly high enough where TL can't touch them. MK up-B makes it tricky to take advantage of him being off the ledge (even if he's limited in jumps). So many characters with strong recoveries makes gimping an unreliable kill method at best -- sure you'll do well against your friend who plays DK or something, but in tournament you'll end up facing someone who you just won't be able to gimp... and you're SOL at that point.
The verticality of his moveset also presents a problem -- you could play a tournament match in a stage with a high ceiling, and every kill could require up to 20-30% more damage racked up. The vertical knockback also makes those moves easy to recover from, since the enemy ends up off the ledge but high enough to DI back and simply focus on air-dodging your attacks. There are counters to this, but each one can in turn be canceled out by a smart player most of the time... so they aren't reliable. This high-altitude position simply gives the opponent too many options to reliably lead to a kill.
Another aspect of Brawl that's almost out to get TL is the diminishing returns -- they have to be played intelligently and carefully, since they could easily end up elongating an opponent's life. I have seen many matches where a TL goes for a kill with a FAir, or a USmash, or even a DSmash, but the opponent survives because the move is stale. TL's great kill moves are also some of his great overall moves, and using them early in the fight is a temptation that's often too much to resist. A good TL will actually use his entire moveset, but be smart about how and when -- if an enemy is in the perfect position for an up-smash, an up-tilt is likely to work just as well -- and if they're within 20% of being killed, the u-smash might be a little too diminished already -- the utilt will push it down in the queue, and potentially make it better rather than worse -- so, when another opportunity arises, the u-smash will be stronger. The opposite's also possible, and it's something I've used before to my advantage. If I notice somebody falls into my usmashes a lot, I let it happen. It's good damage and knockback, so if the hit will work (and they're not within kill range of another move I could land, or I could have a for-sure hit with my usmash but not with another move) I'll just keep using it. Then, I rack up a little extra damage, and surprise them with my utilt -- if it's fresh, it kills a lot of light characters at lower percentages than most people expect, and it's a wonderful surprise to have for late-game play (both players on their last stock, with both char's at 100+%) -- I've won a lot of matches by simply lulling them into thinking an up-smash is coming, and nailing them with an earlier up-tilt instead -- added bonus, of course, being that the up-tilt can be harder to punish.
In the end, TL is a character who has to be played very technically -- if your spacing fails, you're screwed. If your timing fails, you're screwed. If you don't play smart with your projectile game (something I haven't even really gotten into here, since its mainly a strength), you're screwed. If you don't pay attention to the many aspects of the game and what's happening with the flow of the battle, you can *easily* get screwed over for it. There's plenty of ways for TL to die early, and kill late, and these are exactly what you have to watch for -- the causes of this should be the focus of your growth as a player.
So, with this laundry list of disadvantages, why play TL? The reason I do it is that for every disadvantage, there are things you can do to counter it -- and the process of learning to not show these weaknesses actually makes you stronger in other areas. A smart opponent will try to exploit the disadvantageous elements of your character... if you're ready, you can overcome this targeted attack and dynamically modify your style to play smart and turn the situation to your advantage. It's an intellectual challenge, in the end, to overcome these aspects of the character. But that's what makes it interesting, and that's what makes TL a fun character to play.
--UnderWing
<please excuse my verbosity>
Sorry, hate to break it to everyone here, but -- TL has disadvantages. TL, I'd daresay, has a lot of disadvantages. Some obvious, some not-so-obvious. I actually wrote the majority of this post as a reply to the aforementioned thread, but I thought it would be more appropriate as a stand-alone discussion. So, this thread is to discuss TL's disadvantages and how to counteract them with your playstyle.
Really quickly, before I state my observations, to get it out of the way -- the following stuff is what I've observed as a TL player, and watching other TL players -- I've seen what works, I've seen what doesn't work. I don't really have any up-to-date videos online, right now, and I'm obviously not a very well known player in this section of the community -- I read here frequently, post in spurts (mainly 'cause of how long my posts end up being). I'm no "pro", and I have no misconceptions of being one -- I have, however, been playing TL as my main since Brawl launched, and I got into the tourney scene here in SoCal as early as it started. I've stayed active, and participated in what probably averages out to about 2 tournaments a month, 3 since summer started. My placing hasn't been high, but not low either. So I've been able to observe a lot of play, in person, and I've been able to test what works and what doesn't in the tournament scene. I don't play online, so all of the following observations have been from in-person experimentation and observation. Here we go:
Toon Link's obvious weaknesses are that a) he's light, which leads to early deaths when you get hit, and b) he's tricky to kill with, since you need to use techniques and combos just to open kill opportunities. These two result in a lower-than-average "death zone", or % where you're a hit away from death, and a higher-than-average "kill zone", since (even though his moves kill at fairly decent percentages) he has trouble setting up kills. This means they're living longer than they maybe "should", and you're dying earlier than you maybe "should". Now, his maneuverability (proper spacing) and recovery can counter both of these points to an extent, as you can prevent taking the damage/hits in the first place by evading the attacks, and you can put yourself in the kill position by tricking your enemies and setting up combos. The ability to do these things is something that's vital to playing TL, and effectiveness in this area is the one of the major differences between a good TL and a great one.
But that's the surface of the issue. Another of TL's weaknesses is that most of his killing relies on one of two things -- gimping a recovery, or killing vertically (there's a huge vertical element to most of TL's kill moves). There are easy counters to either of these, and they can be combined to make a hard matchup for TL. For one, gimping is harder in Brawl, and the simple counter is one of the "floaters", or multi-jump characters. TL has a lot of strength off the ledge, and it's what lets him set up so many gimps oftentimes -- if you send a character out far enough, they have to follow a certain general path of recovery, and that predictability lets TL show his off-ledge strength. But in Brawl, there's enough strong characters who have more recovery than they could ever need -- MK and Pit can easily go under a level, or fly high enough where TL can't touch them. MK up-B makes it tricky to take advantage of him being off the ledge (even if he's limited in jumps). So many characters with strong recoveries makes gimping an unreliable kill method at best -- sure you'll do well against your friend who plays DK or something, but in tournament you'll end up facing someone who you just won't be able to gimp... and you're SOL at that point.
The verticality of his moveset also presents a problem -- you could play a tournament match in a stage with a high ceiling, and every kill could require up to 20-30% more damage racked up. The vertical knockback also makes those moves easy to recover from, since the enemy ends up off the ledge but high enough to DI back and simply focus on air-dodging your attacks. There are counters to this, but each one can in turn be canceled out by a smart player most of the time... so they aren't reliable. This high-altitude position simply gives the opponent too many options to reliably lead to a kill.
Another aspect of Brawl that's almost out to get TL is the diminishing returns -- they have to be played intelligently and carefully, since they could easily end up elongating an opponent's life. I have seen many matches where a TL goes for a kill with a FAir, or a USmash, or even a DSmash, but the opponent survives because the move is stale. TL's great kill moves are also some of his great overall moves, and using them early in the fight is a temptation that's often too much to resist. A good TL will actually use his entire moveset, but be smart about how and when -- if an enemy is in the perfect position for an up-smash, an up-tilt is likely to work just as well -- and if they're within 20% of being killed, the u-smash might be a little too diminished already -- the utilt will push it down in the queue, and potentially make it better rather than worse -- so, when another opportunity arises, the u-smash will be stronger. The opposite's also possible, and it's something I've used before to my advantage. If I notice somebody falls into my usmashes a lot, I let it happen. It's good damage and knockback, so if the hit will work (and they're not within kill range of another move I could land, or I could have a for-sure hit with my usmash but not with another move) I'll just keep using it. Then, I rack up a little extra damage, and surprise them with my utilt -- if it's fresh, it kills a lot of light characters at lower percentages than most people expect, and it's a wonderful surprise to have for late-game play (both players on their last stock, with both char's at 100+%) -- I've won a lot of matches by simply lulling them into thinking an up-smash is coming, and nailing them with an earlier up-tilt instead -- added bonus, of course, being that the up-tilt can be harder to punish.
In the end, TL is a character who has to be played very technically -- if your spacing fails, you're screwed. If your timing fails, you're screwed. If you don't play smart with your projectile game (something I haven't even really gotten into here, since its mainly a strength), you're screwed. If you don't pay attention to the many aspects of the game and what's happening with the flow of the battle, you can *easily* get screwed over for it. There's plenty of ways for TL to die early, and kill late, and these are exactly what you have to watch for -- the causes of this should be the focus of your growth as a player.
So, with this laundry list of disadvantages, why play TL? The reason I do it is that for every disadvantage, there are things you can do to counter it -- and the process of learning to not show these weaknesses actually makes you stronger in other areas. A smart opponent will try to exploit the disadvantageous elements of your character... if you're ready, you can overcome this targeted attack and dynamically modify your style to play smart and turn the situation to your advantage. It's an intellectual challenge, in the end, to overcome these aspects of the character. But that's what makes it interesting, and that's what makes TL a fun character to play.
--UnderWing
<please excuse my verbosity>