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sasukebowser
08-24-2008, 08:17 PM
Ehh, I know its conman knowledge, but as we all know when you use a move too much it does less damage and knockback. This sucks. Especially for us Toon Link users who have a tough time killing anyway. So I made a list of everything you can hit to regenerate your other moves. It's basically just a list of everything you can hit, but hey, I'm trying guys. To fully regenerate a move use like ~10 other moves on these things. I would recommend Dtilt cuz it's fast and I don't find many uses for that move except for practically"infiniting" against a wall. But you can use whatever move you want. Some things need to be hit with airials anyway. You can't hit some of these that many times, but any hit is better then none.

Stages (Tourney levels are underlined , Non-tourny levels are in (parenthesis), (Iffy ones are both)):

Luigi's Mansion - The 4 pilers of the house.
Norfair - The walls to the escape pod thing
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) - The Shy Guys
Castle Siege - The two statues at the phase part of the level
Distant Planet - The pellets while they're still on the flower, The nests
Smashville - The balloon (<3)
Green Hill Zone - The middle of the level, the checkpoint markers
Yoshi's Island (Melee) - The yellow blocks
Corneria - The guns at the front of the ship
Brinstar - The two "wall-like" things connecting the bottom platform to the side platforms, the chunk of stuff keeping the bottom platform together
(Mario Circuit) - The Shy Guys on carts
(Skyworld) - ....Everything
(Mushroomy Kingdom) - Both the regular and "?" blocks
(Rumble Falls) - The buttons, the presents, the singular spikes, and that one destructible wall on the right side of the waterfall near the begging of the level.
(Bridge of Eldin) - King Bulblin on Lord Bullbo, Bulbin minion that follows them
(Warioware, Inc.) - The "pop it!" party favors, the "chisel it!" marble
(Summit) - The chunk of ice platform on the right side of the level
(Mario Bros.) - The crabs, the turtles
(Hanenbow) - ......Also everything
(Shadow Moses Island) - The walls

Moves (Primarily a time to take advantage of spamming):
Diddy Kong's peanuts - Not hitting them, catching them and throwing them back to hit him.
Snake's grenades - Same as Diddy. Catch them and throw them back at Snake.
Snake's Nikita - When its coming at you, just hit it. Even with a jab attack. Very easy.
King Dedede's Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos - They're particularly easy to hit. Two Dtilts should be fine.
R.O.B.'s gyro - You can either just hit it, or pick it up and throw it back at him. I'd go with hitting it.
Olimar's Pikmin - Just hit them during any of the moves he uses them.





Bomb C-4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWTZsTdf3gI)
Two methods:
~Press Z immediately after dropping from a platform.
~Jump through a platform and press Z as the bomb goes through it.

Its not very practical, but I could see it helping people. Messes up spacing. I like to think of it as a weak version of Snakes C-4. But unlike Snakes C-4, it practically makes no noise and is very hard to notice if they're not looking for it (Especially at darker levels). I doubt anyone would see this coming. It works well against spammers who need you to be far away from them in order to spam. Or anyone else who needs to be far away from you to do something like charge a move. It can even be used as an anti-roll. If you know your playing a roller, you can set the bombs, approach with a nair or something, let them roll into the bombs, and follow up. No one sees these kinds of things coming the first time. Its this kind of unorthodox gameplay I love. This technique also gives the opponent something to worry about besides you. They have to pay attention to the bombs. Split their focus a little. The stress will probably make them play worse and shield a lot more. Free grabs. Small things lead up to big things. =)



Dumb things I noticed:
This ones just a joke, don't take it seriously. You can get across any level without taking a step. Repetitiously crouching/ getting up and tilting left/right on the control stick makes it look like he just slides. Like a mini-wavedash. =P

Toon Link Up-B only sweet-spots the edge when he swings his forward forward towards the edge. Make of that what you will.

zaf
08-24-2008, 10:41 PM
1st post

good job sasuke. great knowledge for people who still arent sure about move degeneration

ุrion
08-24-2008, 11:01 PM
Nice and informative, I didn't know about the corneria guns. I also had a question. I feel stupid that I don't know this, but whatever. Are both of toon links Fsmash swings part of the same move degneration or are they counted seperated? Like if I did the first swing but not the second swing, would the second swing later be fresh or stale?

sasukebowser
08-24-2008, 11:22 PM
Nice and informative, I didn't know about the corneria guns. I also had a question. I feel stupid that I don't know this, but whatever. Are both of toon links Fsmash swings part of the same move degneration or are they counted seperated? Like if I did the first swing but not the second swing, would the second swing later be fresh or stale?

I've asked this before and didn't get an answer.
Idk.
I think they're separate.
But then again, idk. =P
I'll check later today.

l SOUP l
08-25-2008, 12:05 AM
Nice post Sasuke ^_^ something to keep in mind instead of just standing around after a KO.

Drab Emordnilap
08-25-2008, 03:12 AM
Nice and informative, I didn't know about the corneria guns. I also had a question. I feel stupid that I don't know this, but whatever. Are both of toon links Fsmash swings part of the same move degneration or are they counted seperated? Like if I did the first swing but not the second swing, would the second swing later be fresh or stale?

I'm mostly sure they count as entirely separate moves. The jab combo is definitely separate moves.

Asdioh
08-25-2008, 06:49 PM
For the Ice Climbers Summit, I think you can hit the falling icicle when it's completely formed. Not positive though.

Dumb things I noticed:
This ones just a joke, don't take it seriously. You can get across any level without taking a step. Repetitiously crouching/ getting up and tilting left/right on the control stick makes it look like he just slides. Like a mini-wavedash. =PKirby does it cooler. Especially scrubby Kirbys :P

TLMarth
08-25-2008, 07:17 PM
I would think that up-b is more useful. Well, it's pretty fast. But does each hit in up-b count towards degeneration?
In the air, I think the best aerial would be bair

VietGeek
08-25-2008, 07:43 PM
Up+B counts as an entire move. Otherwise it and other true multi-hits would be broken.

ุrion
08-25-2008, 07:59 PM
I would think that up-b is more useful. Well, it's pretty fast. But does each hit in up-b count towards degeneration?
In the air, I think the best aerial would be bair

That would awesome :)

Shiekah
08-26-2008, 05:05 AM
Up+B counts as an entire move. Otherwise it and other true multi-hits would be broken.

Hmm are you sure about that? I know for a fact that Toon Links F-smash degenerates with both hits. The only way to get the max damage/knockback from your F-smash is to miss with the 1st hit. The same applies to Marth's Forward B.

VietGeek
08-26-2008, 05:42 AM
Like I said true multi-hit moves. Not ones you can cancel on whim like jabs, certain tilts, Dancing Blade, the Links' Fsmash, etc.

But think about it. How broken would ROB be if his main kill move regenerated his other moves. <_<

I mean, I know Brawl fails at reasoning, but they had some logic in the development process.

Just some though.

Mr.E
08-30-2008, 06:59 AM
TL seems severely underused for such a good character.


At any rate, *ahem* (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186915). Although you seemed to catch one or two things I missed (i.e. the actual ground of GHZ) and it's organized a bit better. Also guys, for the most part each button press counts as a separate attack in the queue. All of Dancing Blade count as completely different attacks, most jabs count separately for each hit, and whatnot.

sasukebowser
08-30-2008, 07:22 AM
TL seems severely underused for such a good character.


At any rate, *ahem* (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186915). Although you seemed to catch one or two things I missed (i.e. the actual ground of GHZ) and it's organized a bit better. Also guys, for the most part each button press counts as a separate attack in the queue. All of Dancing Blade count as completely different attacks, most jabs count separately for each hit, and whatnot.

Ahh I completely copied your thread idea! Sorry!
I even posted on that one. It must have been a while ago I completely forgot. =(
To think I spent a long while looking for all this stuff.
Again, sorry.

Also I know the Diddy peanut thing doesn't really count cuz its kinda....meh, but if you catch it and HIt Diddy with it, it works.
Wow I forgot a lot of things too.

Deoxys
10-25-2008, 02:14 AM
Are you sure the blocks on Green Greens don't count? Seems kind of weird that everything else does....

urdailywater
10-25-2008, 02:36 AM
Kind of an old topic don'tcha think?

Bleh, Diminishing returns is a better word imo. To get rid of diminishing returns.

It isn't that old so I guess it doesn't matter though.

Rawrness
10-25-2008, 02:44 AM
Does zair never diminish?

urdailywater
10-25-2008, 03:01 AM
Does zair never diminish?

If I'm not mistaking every attack should diminish, just read his first post though.

edit: I only learned this a few days ago myself so I can't say for sure.

sasukebowser
10-25-2008, 03:04 AM
Zair diminishes.

Deoxys
10-25-2008, 03:40 AM
Kind of an old topic don'tcha think?

Yeah, but no one bothered to ask this question... It's relevant to the list.

VietGeek
10-25-2008, 09:03 AM
Zair diminishes.

...

Really now? It doesn't seem to degenerate in %s (4%) or knockback. It would be silly to weaken a move that is simply an annoyance to people anyway. If anything that'll make it easier for us to set moves up with it, and that's ridiculous. <_<

Rutger
10-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Because it is fun. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8R0LpQvjI&fmt=18)

Probably next to useless but...
It's fun...>_>

Shadow Moth
10-29-2008, 09:14 PM
zair probably diminishes but I never notice because I really only use it because it auto cancels easily.

DemonicTrilogy
10-30-2008, 02:24 AM
Wait, are you saying that you have to hit someone with a move in order to have it degenerate/ regenerate???

Black_Heretic
10-30-2008, 02:40 PM
Wait, are you saying that you have to hit someone with a move in order to have it degenerate/ regenerate???

yes, someone or some stage features

BTW, does hitting multiple shy guys on Yoshi's Island count as only one hit towards refreshing your moves?

Shadow Moth
10-31-2008, 12:29 PM
probably not. it's the attack not the hit that counts... I think