TL... top tier?

[Veggieburger_802]

Greetings, my fellow Toon Linkers. I'm a long time reader, first time writer. As most of us TL mainers probably know, the issue of TL making the top tier list has been floating around for a while now. After a few minutes of searching the TL forums, I was very surprised to find that there was no thread dedicated specifically to said topic. So I hereby open up the discussion to anyone who would like to share their opinion about this. Thanks for your ideas! I hope the "Back Room People" will take this into consideration ;)

P.S. Please don't hesitate to throw in a :mad: ZOMFG TL FTL STFU N00B GTFO!!1 .... as long as you have a reason :)

[CYAN!]

There is no such thing as a "top" tier, because your advantage changes when your fighting different characters. So you may think your top teir against mario but phail against luigi. Simple as that.

I really dislike how many 08rs say ZOMG MY MAIN IS TOP TEIR, HELL YOSHI'S top tier! >_> (sarcasm on top teir anything)

I have nothing against supporting your character, but please. No top tier stuff please, dont make 08er's look worse :(

Edit: Sorry if i sound harsh, but i see this post way to often specially on the gamespot board.

[Dr.octogonapus]

There is no such thing as a "top" tier, because your advantage changes when your fighting different characters. So you may think your top teir against mario but phail against luigi. Simple as that.

I really dislike how many 08rs say ZOMG MY MAIN IS TOP TEIR, HELL YOSHI'S top tier! >_> (sarcasm on top teir anything)

I have nothing against supporting your character, but please. No top tier stuff please, dont make 08er's look worse :(

Edit: Sorry if i sound harsh, but i see this post way to often specially on the gamespot board.

Tiers are discussed on this board, theres nothing wrong with this thread at all, And your really not making "08ers" look any better with the generic "OH MAI TIERS DUNZ EXIST LAWL" argument =/

@veggieburger: I like the idea of the thread, but at this point I think were all just trying to get him to high tier.

[CYAN!]

Tiers are discussed on this board, theres nothing wrong with this thread at all, And your really not making "08ers" look any better with the generic "OH MAI TIERS DUNZ EXIST LAWL" argument.

@veggieburger: I like the idea of the thread, but at this point I think were all just trying to get him to high tier.

Good luck on your efforts, and yea i know im not really doing much better im fighting fire with wood when i join in but eh. I dont hate TL and id love to see some good mains come out of him so my best wishes.

[Asdioh]

Toon Link is an absolutely amazing character, and if this tier crap was based off of potential alone, and not tournament results, Toon Link would be top tier, or very close.

...what am I supposed to talk about now?

...

...so, how 'bout those DAirs...

[Ørion]

I seriously doubt that we will get him to top tier, unless, as sasuke (I think) said we find a gamebreaking technique or glitch. With good tournament results High tier won't be too hard. Top Tier, I wouldn't bet on.

[sasukebowser]

He'll get top if people play him and win.
And when people realize what hes capable of.
I know your like "blah blah blah capable of, what do you know sasuke? lol"
Well I actually have been working on it. I'll get to making stuff public later.
If, and I mean IF Toon Links are willing to work very hard (with techniques, tournement matches, metagame advancement, ect.) we can get top. Seriously.

[Asdioh]

Well I actually have been working on it. I'll get to making stuff public later.Sasuke's been trained in the art of Kaioken!

srsly though, it sounds like you know something >_>


Off topic: I've recently come to realize that my Toon Link sucks ***. I don't know when this happened, but my Captain Falcon is probably better. HALP!

My Kirby is still top tier though

[K 2]

Toon Link is an absolutely amazing character, and if this tier crap was based off of potential alone, and not tournament results, Toon Link would be top tier, or very close.

...what am I supposed to talk about now?

...

...so, how 'bout those DAirs...

I totally agree that the tier list should be based off of potential alone. I friend went to a tournament about a month ago and he said half the people their used Metagay. That's why metagay always wins the tournament, because everyone uses him! When brawl first came out, I main MG because he looked really cool, but I dropped him because he had -5 finishing moves. He's also very light and extremely easy to KO. I've destroyed every MG I've came across. I don't see why he is considered the best character in the game.

[VietGeek]

K 2, if you really are killing MKs everywhere, they either all suck or you need to phone M2K for a money match pl0x. =O

Really. Also, potential alone would still make Meta Knight higher than Toon Link. Statistically speaking then, MK would still be top tier. Just maybe the MKs in your area need to stop whoring tornado and Shuttle Loop exclusively and learn to play like Mew2King. A good MK >>> A good TL any day of the week.

[K 2]

Obviously I haven't played any "pros" who use MG, nor to I claim to be a "pro". I use G&W against Metagays, uair works wonders.

I don't think MG should be number one in top tier. Yes, he has potential and yes, he is very good in the right hands (Mew2king I guess), but no he is DEFIANTLY not the best character in the game. As for MG and TL on the tier list, I think they shouldn't be separated by a whole freaking tier. TL isn't THAT bad against a MG.

[VietGeek]

Obviously I haven't played any "pros" who use MG, nor to I claim to be a "pro". I use G&W against Metagays, uair works wonders.

I don't think MG should be number one in top tier. Yes, he has potential and yes, he is very good in the right hands (Mew2king I guess), but no he is DEFIANTLY not the best character in the game. As for MG and TL on the tier list, I think they shouldn't be separated by a whole freaking tier. TL isn't THAT bad against a MG.

I think you're like a lot of people. People like us that don't know the true extent of gayness that is MK until we face a good one. But it may also be because you're using G&W, which a lot of more "pro" people would probably agree is top tier along with MK on the top, Snake in second, and GameWatch at 3rd. Which means you're at more of an equilibrium with MetaKnight than Toon Link, Wolf, Pit, Marth, ROB, and whatever other "high tiers" will ever be.

Also, by curiosity, who DO you think belongs in top tier?

[K 2]

I think you're like a lot of people. People like us that don't know the true extent of gayness that is MK until we face a good one. But it may also be because you're using G&W, which a lot of more "pro" people would probably agree is top tier along with MK on the top, Snake in second, and GameWatch at 3rd. Which means you're at more of an equilibrium with MetaKnight than Toon Link, Wolf, Pit, Marth, ROB, and whatever other "high tiers" will ever be.

Also, by curiosity, who DO you think belongs in top tier?

Top tier (in no particular order)
Snake
G&W
Marth
Pit
possible diddy kong

High tier
near the top of high tier: MK
near the lower middle part of high tier: TL

[Ginger_Warrior]

Toon Link is an absolutely amazing character, and if this tier crap was based off of potential alone, and not tournament results, Toon Link would be top tier, or very close.
Potential must surely include the ability to actually kill a character. Aside from fairs and hyphen smash (oh yeah, and I guess you can spike down with dair, flick someone with bair or take 5 minutes over an fsmash), what potential has he got there?

Well, there are numerous ways you can work around it thanks to TL's versatility with projectiles, but compared to Snake who can kill with a normal A-attack... TL just doesn't compare.

But then I really don't care for tier lists. If TL was top tier, I might feel a little tingly for 5 seconds and then I'd be back to normal. To be honest, I'd hate it if every other opponent I faced was a TL, as is the case with MK. >_>

[K 2]

Potential must surely include the ability to actually kill a character. Aside from fairs and hyphen smash (oh yeah, and I guess you can spike down with dair, flick someone with bair or take 5 minutes over an fsmash), what potential has he got there?

Well, there are numerous ways you can work around it thanks to TL's versatility with projectiles, but compared to Snake who can kill with a normal A-attack... TL just doesn't compare.

But then I really don't care for tier lists. If TL was top tier, I might feel a little tingly for 5 seconds and then I'd be back to normal. To be honest, I'd hate it if every other opponent I faced was a TL, as is the case with MK. >_>

Tl's kill moves? Uair, Dair, Fair, Nair
Usmash, Fsmash
Dsmash sets up for gimp kills
did I mention his incredible edgeguarding game?

[Yukiwarashi]

Toon Link won't reach top because he's not stupidly broken. He actually suffers from lag after attacks *cough*Metaknight*cough*, doesn't have messed up hitboxes *cough*Snake*cough*or extremely stupid sidestepping *cough*ROB*cough* or stupid chaingrabs *cough*Dedede*cough*

Man...I'm quite sick today. Toon Link is actually a balanced character, therefore the best we can hope for is High. I think Toon Link can certainly reach that, but top...? Ehhh...I really can't see it. It'd be nice, but...

[K 2]

Toon Link won't reach top because he's not stupidly broken. He actually suffers from lag after attacks *cough*Metaknight*cough*, doesn't have messed up hitboxes *cough*Snake*cough*or extremely stupid sidestepping *cough*ROB*cough* or stupid chaingrabs *cough*Dedede*cough*

Man...I'm quite sick today. Toon Link is actually a balanced character, therefore the best we can hope for is High. I think Toon Link can certainly reach that, but top...? Ehhh...I really can't see it. It'd be nice, but...

Well, did you see my psuedo tier list? I would place TL at around lower-middle high tier.

[Asdioh]

I think you're like a lot of people. People like us that don't know the true extent of gayness that is MK until we face a good one.

oh, how I wish that was me. Darn you, Master Raven, for ruining my hopes of Meta Knight being overrated.

Also, there is some EXTREMELY squeaky car outside my window, you have NO IDEA.

[l SOUP l]

K 2, if you really are killing MKs everywhere, they either all suck or you need to phone M2K for a money match pl0x. =O

Really. Also, potential alone would still make Meta Knight higher than Toon Link. Statistically speaking then, MK would still be top tier. Just maybe the MKs in your area need to stop whoring tornado and Shuttle Loop exclusively and learn to play like Mew2King. A good MK >>> A good TL any day of the week.

^ that
_____________________

TL top tier? I don't see it happening, he definitely has the potential for middle of high tier, but with a character like MK around I severely doubt it. Most of the posters here don't know what's it like to fight a good MK, (one that actually uses his brokenness wisely) so let me elaborate so that you might have an idea.

Imagine a chess game where you are the black pieces, your opponent is obviously white. And gets the first move, 2 of his pawns on the front line are queens, and for every turn you get he gets 3 turns. That pretty much summarizes it.

[Dr.octogonapus]

^ that
_____________________

TL top tier? I don't see it happening, he definitely has the potential for middle of high tier, but with a character like MK around I severely doubt it. Most of the posters here don't know what's it like to fight a good MK, (one that actually uses his brokenness wisely) so let me elaborate so that you might have an idea.

Imagine a chess game where you are the black pieces, your opponent is obviously white. And gets the first move, 2 of his pawns on the front line are queens, and for every turn you get he gets 3 turns. That pretty much summarizes it.

QFT. I have never seen such a perfect description of the matchup.

[Airwalkerr]

Well, there is one way to get TL into top tier. Win some tourneys, broseph. unless they base it on other things now, I've been living literally under a rock since March.

[cutter]

Toon Link is top tier... in theorycraft world that is. That's the main reason why Toon Link was a guaranteed LOCK for top tier back in March; people didn't actually play the game and based the entire tier list off theorycraft.

Many people fail to realize a tier list bases a character off CURRENT status in the metagame. What is the point in saying "oh man Toon Link has so much potential he could be really good in the future blah blah blah" when Toon Link fails to produce when it REALLY counts -- in tournament play?

He was so grossly overhyped and theorycrafted up to the max when the game first came out. Once we started serious tournament play we started to realize Toon Link really isn't that great. The reason characters like MK, Snake, G&W, and DDD are in top tier is because they HAVE produced in tournament play and are proven to be forces to be reckoned with.

In short, Toon Link is a theorycraft machine. He looks SO GOOD on paper, but he really isn't all that people thought he turned out to be.

[Midnaftw]

Greetings, my fellow Toon Linkers. I'm a long time reader, first time writer. As most of us TL mainers probably know, the issue of TL making the top tier list has been floating around for a while now. After a few minutes of searching the TL forums, I was very surprised to find that there was no thread dedicated specifically to said topic. So I hereby open up the discussion to anyone who would like to share their opinion about this. Thanks for your ideas! I hope the "Back Room People" will take this into consideration ;)

P.S. Please don't hesitate to throw in a :mad: ZOMFG TL FTL STFU N00B GTFO!!1 .... as long as you have a reason :)


:mad: ZOMFG TL FTL STFU N00B GTFO!!1 ...

sorry, felt like it :bee:

TL is my main and I think hes awesome, but, as with most characters, it's judged on opinion... like imo I think Olimar isn't such a great character, but loads of people think hes amazing. But unfortunately there are always the people who think :mad: ZOMFG TL FTL STFU N00B GTFO!!1 ... who will cancel us out :(

EDIT: wait, It's judged on tourney wins? woops, ignore this noob post

[QUIVO]

Why you guys want him to be Top tier, is beyond me...

All the sheep will start maining him and we'll end up having TL dittos all the time (which is the most boring matchup ever).

TL for mid tier!!!!!!!

[sasukebowser]

Why you guys want him to be Top tier, is beyond me...

All the sheep will start maining him and we'll end up having TL dittos all the time (which is the most boring matchup ever).

TL for mid tier!!!!!!!

...
TL for Toon tier.
Screw TL dittos. lol sheep. awww
No one will know if hes even bottom tier material.
And people won't know hes good. =D

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Not enough people play as him in tournaments to be top tier. :/

[darkspatan117]

tlink is not good engough to reach to tier high maybe but not top

[sasukebowser]

tlink is not good enough to reach to tier high maybe but not top
That sentence had a lot of mistakes. <_<
And yes he is.
YOUR JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH to realize it!!!1!1!1one!1!!!
jk, jk. Or am I?

[-mugen-]

He'll get top if people play him and win.
And when people realize what hes capable of.
I know your like "blah blah blah capable of, what do you know sasuke? lol"
Well I actually have been working on it. I'll get to making stuff public later.
If, and I mean IF Toon Links are willing to work very hard (with techniques, tournement matches, metagame advancement, ect.) we can get top. Seriously.

Good sh*t.

[brinboy789]

IMO hes gonna get into high cuz hes top of middle but not top :\

[sasukebowser]

IMO hes gonna get into high cuz hes top of middle but not top :\

Why?
What is the characters on top of him get better too?
He'll get high if players do better or if we find amazing things for him. nuff said.

[Nic64]

I totally agree that the tier list should be based off of potential alone. I friend went to a tournament about a month ago and he said half the people their used Metagay. That's why metagay always wins the tournament, because everyone uses him!

The problem with this is that everyone thinks their character has top tier potential, aside from the garbage fodder tier everyone likes to say "they're great if you know their potential", you can see this all around the character forums here even for a lot of lower tier characters...and if it were true you'd see the results. Toon Link should be far more popular than MK, when brawl first came out there would have been many more people starting out with him than MK, MK's popularity in brawl is a product of how good he is in brawl, he isn't good just because more people use him, and if he was closer to toon links level toon link would most likely have more users than him. it sucks but the game was horribly balanced and it's pretty transparent

edit: though to be fair I don't doubt that TL is underrated, definitely belongs in high tier IMO, but he's not metaknight/snake good, and without some kind of glitch discovery never will be

[Gheb_01]

TL isn't top tier material...he should be mid of high tier imo