Okay, VietG is just not "good" at Brawl (critique, videos of Wolf not failing)

[VietGeek]

Seriously, I know I've gotten more predictable now. I guess especially against Wolf since he has a good pressuring game JUST BY BEING BY YOU. <_<

Honestly, Wolf pisses me off. But I think I got gradually better the more I fought it.

Feel free to critique since I might need to get new ideas to add to my playstyle (which admittedly is very predictable, but then again, Diddy throwing 13154246 bananas is predictable, but it works so well). So I'll just add new ideas (like Sasuke's "bomb C4") onto my current playstyle.

Oh, and I know to try to do more Zair to grab. Also ledgehop Nair/Fair to Zair to grab looks pretty leet (thanks for showing me that Sasuke xD).

VietG (TL) Lv.99 (Wolf) 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkoR6byQ7P8&fmt=18)
VietG (TL) Lv.99 (Wolf) 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV-RUNSuDXY&fmt=18)
VietG (TL) Lv.99 (Wolf) 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0zznTOHC0&fmt=18)

Naturally, there was moments of extreme stupid. But don't butter up your critiques. Be cruel, relentless, make me emo, so that I can get better again. Thanks.

[Lobos]

Umm you might wanna fix your links.....video 1 and 2 are the same

[sasukebowser]

like Sasuke's "bomb C4"

*feels special* XD
Oh and Np about the other thing. >.>

I'll watch them when I get home and get back to you. >_>
Edit: Ok I saw some of the last match from this sucky work computer.
I saw a Nair->Dsmash.
THANK YOU!

[Rutger]

You need to stop hateing yourself. I've said that enough so I'm going to stop, it is up to you now.

Even though you say you are bad you are much better then me so I can't give advice. If anyone is getting worse it's me, I haven't played anyone competitively since FAST1 and before that it was last school year as long as you don't count online(and online sucks so you shouldn't count it).

Sorry for not being of any help but your matches were good to me.

[Rawrness]

That is one AWESOME TL.

use a tad bit more bombs though...especially when you're recovering

edit; zair->nair got predictable but it worked XD

[VietGeek]

Err...okay? Thanks Rutger...I think.

Lobos, I fixed the links now. Feel free to rip them apart. ;P You too Sasuke.

I'll be waiting for epic ways to destroy Wolf's Fsmash and stuff. ;P

That is one AWESOME TL.

use a tad bit more bombs though...

...

Lolwut? 9/10 people I meet online can agree I spam those things like Mach Tornado. Err...care to elaborate please? ^^

[Dr.octogonapus]

I'd like to give advice but....2 issues

1. Wolf is usually the 2nd worst char to play against for me.(metaknight)

2.Your Toon Link makes it look like I picked him up 20 minutes ago.

Keep it up ^_^

[Lobos]

Alright so you tend to spam zair > nair which isn't bad but it was starting to get predictable.

You know how to do the arrow cancel really well, even the reverse one but I only saw you use it once against the opponent. You should use it in your game play some more.

When knocked off the stage use your projectiles and give your opponent trouble for that kill. Let him work for it and make your edge game better. If you were playing against someone that can edge guard/hog good then it wouldn't have been pretty.

thats all I got for now, keep up the good work

[VietGeek]

Well then could you suggest another follow up?

Zair to grab I know about.

Zair to bomb is good, but the fact that you have to airdodge easily telegraphs what you're doing. I mean I airdodge a lot before using Zair anyway, and mix it up to empty airdodges, but when I hold a bomb, it seems to telegraph a lot easier for some reason (could be because I play w/ this guy all the time, I don't know).

I know you guys nitpick about the Nair follow-up. But seriously, that thing is like a combo. o_O

Zair to jab might work, other ground attacks I'm not too confident to say about.

So...suggest Lobos. ^^

[sasukebowser]

...Zair to....
Zair
..................................
Then quickdraw.
>_>
<_<
Jk.
I think you can cancel the airdodge pretty fast and Zair Viet. Like to the point where they can't see the airdodge. But I'm not sure right now.
I get home in 6 hours. -_-"

EDIT: Viet, learn how to drop bombs without exploding them (if you don't already know) ( and i mean like CONSTANTLY, every time). Or SHBD. Whatever. Just learn it k?
It shall be usefull in the future. Promise. ^_^

[Rawrness]

Err...okay? Thanks Rutger...I think.

Lobos, I fixed the links now. Feel free to rip them apart. ;P You too Sasuke.

I'll be waiting for epic ways to destroy Wolf's Fsmash and stuff. ;P



...

Lolwut? 9/10 people I meet online can agree I spam those things like Mach Tornado. Err...care to elaborate please? ^^

...Zair to....
Zair
..................................
Then quickdraw.
>_>
<_<
Jk.
I think you can cancel the airdodge pretty fast and Zair Viet. Like to the point where they can't see the airdodge. But I'm not sure right now.
I get home in 6 hours. -_-"

EDIT: Viet, learn how to drop bombs without exploding them (if you don't already know) ( and i mean like CONSTANTLY, every time). Or SHBD. Whatever. Just learn it k?
It shall be usefull in the future. Promise. ^_^



That is one AWESOME TL.

use a tad bit more bombs though...especially when you're recovering

edit; zair->nair got predictable but it worked XD


and why will dropping bombs like that be helpful?

[vanderzant]

I read it somewhere else, but if you want to mix up your options after a zair, zair -> quick dash attack (using c-stick down instead of a) is a worthy option. I'm pretty sure TL's dash attack trips at certain percents which can lead to all sorts of things!

[Moosecalibur]

I read it somewhere else, but if you want to mix up your options after a zair, zair -> quick dash attack (using c-stick down instead of a) is a worthy option. I'm pretty sure TL's dash attack trips at certain percents which can lead to all sorts of things!

yea, TL's dash attack and sometimes his jab occasionally trips people (at least in my experience)

[sasukebowser]

Jab combo? wtf. Viet I'll watch them tonight I promise.

[noelwashere]

is it me or are the graphics different?

[Asdioh]

I thought you said videos of Wolf not failing...he suicided at the end of match 1 XD

Anyway, other than that, it was great. Did I see a glide toss? O_O I'll have to give that a try...

Excellent work of Zair. Nice projectile use, he kept getting hit by returning boomerangs, giving you a chance to attack. All around you did great, stop QQing.

One of my personal favorite attacks is shield into Up B, I've said this multiple times before. If used sparingly, it catches them off guard, and it can even lead into bair chains or other attacks. However, I've also heard people say that it's possible to power shield the whole thing, so maybe it's just good because I've been playing on wifi :/

I noticed at least one time where I would have pulled a bomb on my way back up to the stage. shrug

EDIT: Viet, learn how to drop bombs without exploding them (if you don't already know) ( and i mean like CONSTANTLY, every time). Or SHBD. Whatever. Just learn it k?
It shall be usefull in the future. Promise. ^_^I know how to do that, but only while I'm falling down. Is it possible to drop a bomb without it exploding the instant you leave the ground? I haven't tried it, at least not lately.
And you're freaking me out Sasuke, you seriously sound like you know something godlyamazing that will revolutionize the way Brawl is played :/

Edit: VietGeek, more Purple Toon Link is required.

[sasukebowser]

I know how to do that, but only while I'm falling down. Is it possible to drop a bomb without it exploding the instant you leave the ground? I haven't tried it, at least not lately.
And you're freaking me out Sasuke, you seriously sound like you know something godlyamazing that will revolutionize the way Brawl is played :/
No no, you have it right. Just learn how to drop then low without them exploading and how to drop them in the air and watch them again (jump, drop the bomb with Z, use and airial to catch it)
BE FREAKED OUT! Muh ha ha ha ha!!!
Jk. Its not something thats gonna revolutionize Brawl, but it's honestly gonna bring TL up a 'lil. And I mean DEFINITE up a 'lol. If not more.
I'll show you guys what I mean when I get good at it myself and know all the mechanics and stuff. I don't want to present false information to you guys.

Edit: VietGeek, more Purple Toon Link is required.

QFT.
This is why purple is my secondary color. (yes I have them in order -.-)

[TLMarth]

Ah I saw the ol VG combo! lol.
What about if you condition him to think that after you zair you bomb, then he'll try to reflect it, then you can do something else (Such as bomb aerial, or throw the bomb up and attack him)

EDIT 1: Also with zair->nair you could quickdraw an arrow after the nair!

EDIT 2: In the third match you were being pressured offstage by wolf, and you didn't use projectiles. Is this because of fear that he will reflect them?

EDIT 3: These and the other videos should go in your video thread

[TLMarth]

I think deflicker (soft or sharp images)

[VietGeek]

I think deflicker (soft or sharp images)

The DVD Recorder makes things look more rigid like the Deflicker isn't set correctly. It's not too much of a bother though.

And I'll try to use more projectiles offstage. Wolf's Reflector is, in my opinion, the best of all three, and the send back speed can be insane sometimes. I'll try to use bombs more often or less. I typically get scared when I'm forced to recovery low, since pulling a projectile there might mean I loss the height I needed to live on. :/

As for SHBD, I actually sat down and did it again yesterday Sasuke. I found it's too easily telegraphed. When you do an empty shorthop, You might be trying to do a delayed aerial, autocanceled Zair, or bomb drop. Since you have to drop then pick up the bomb for aerials, airdodge for Zair, they'll know I'm trying to drop it.

The distance Wolf covers would make it extremely risky imo, to drop bombs here and there. I particularly like your C4 trick because it's safe and quick (unlike the SHBD at ledge which leaves you VERY vulnerable) or normal SHBD. I still have a knack of not dropping the bomb ON the platform when I go under, or the game buffered my down command so I throw it in my face, but up is a breeze.

Tell me easy, safe ways to set us SHBDs Sasuke. ^^

Oh, and yeah, my predictable Zair -> Nair might be because of my Marth mentality of staying safe. And Zair to Nair is the safest follow-up from my research. Dash attack is blocked (rape), if the opponent buffers a roll (grab follow-up, raped). If your opponent is named Wolf (VietG combo, other random follow-ups, raped).

But...Zair to Nair has never failed me. Or at least I've never been excessively punished for it. Do you guys think my mentalities of my characters are conflicting each other? Or do you guys just want less Nair because it bores you and makes the popcorn go stale?

[Rawrness]

Whats your VietG combo?

[VietGeek]

Whats your VietG combo?

Pull bomb -> SH airdodge -> cancel with Zair -> throw bomb -> Hyphen smash at foe. 25 damage undiminished right there.

Depending on where you hit, you can follow up with more Bairs, or BAIT an airdodge for a Uair.

[sasukebowser]

As for SHBD, I actually sat down and did it again yesterday Sasuke. I found it's too easily telegraphed. When you do an empty shorthop, You might be trying to do a delayed aerial, autocanceled Zair, or bomb drop. Since you have to drop then pick up the bomb for aerials, airdodge for Zair, they'll know I'm trying to drop it.

The distance Wolf covers would make it extremely risky imo, to drop bombs here and there. I particularly like your C4 trick because it's safe and quick (unlike the SHBD at ledge which leaves you VERY vulnerable) or normal SHBD. I still have a knack of not dropping the bomb ON the platform when I go under, or the game buffered my down command so I throw it in my face, but up is a breeze.

Tell me easy, safe ways to set us SHBDs Sasuke. ^^

Safe ways to set it up? *thinks* Hmmm..
I'd guess that doing a SHDA or just a sh then quickdraw would leave them to believe that your going to approach when pulling out them bomb. Or maybe throw a boomerang and let it cover the space in front of you and then do it. It would be better if your far enough so the boomerang doesn't hit him (it just comes up to him and comes back). That would make them waste time trying to avoid it, and they'd have to wait for the boomerang to come back to you. You can do a running SHBD (although it's just a liiiittle bit harder). Idk much more, I never really thought about it being too practical. =( I'll have to work on that. They airdodge can be fast Viet. You can zair as soon as you catch the bomb. It shouldn't be that much of a problem once you get the timing down.

I know what you mean about the throwing the bomb down thing try to let the control stick go back to neutral as fast as possible. Just flick it down ( don't let your thumb stay on it too long ) and press Z.

I'll watch the vids now. -.-

[VietGeek]

You know, I just thought you meant putting bombs on the ground w/ SHBD. If you mean bomb aerials then I haven't touched on that. <_<

[sasukebowser]

...<_<
Try it......
*is writing my answer to this actual thread right now* >_>

[sasukebowser]

Alright I'm putting things in order of how I saw them in the vid.
When your getting killed off the top, use Dair. It stalls your momentum (crucial in this game). Idk if you just messed up that time though.
Grab when the boomerangs returning and hes in front of you.
(i don't understand why that Wolf uses Nair when His side B does that)
Try a roll recovery or something when your trying to get back to the edge. Or drop down, Wall jump, boomerang down at him then get on the stage with your second jump.
You seem to lose it just a little when you get hit. Watch out for that.
That second stock on the second vid.....You probably know what to do for that now.
When he was using reflector past the edge when you threw a bomb at him, I would just run off the edge and Fair him after you threw the bomb. I mean, whats he gonna do?
Pull bombs out when your recovering. You'll make it. done worry =)
Zair->Nair->Stilt/smash is good. keep that up. (maybe as mindgames trying charging it when you think hes gonna roll?)
If you find him right in front of you spotdodging use jab combo instead of Dsmash.
Quickdraw when he hits you back. He'll try to approach and get hit by the arrow.

Okay overall:
Work on your edge game. Its Wolf man. His recovery is crap. Just spend a little more time near the edge in matches and pick up your own little tricks there. It'll help.
Your combos were too good.
*tries to remember the rest*...Uhh maybe like a few more quickdraws after Nair? Especially if the Nair hits him not very far off the level.

Umm I think this was it. But it was written with a night without sleep so some stuff might be.. idk wrong? O_o

I understand you position Viet, I really do. But your Toon is one of the better ones out there. I know your better then me at least. Don't think that you not good, think that your not 100% the absolute best in the world if you have to. It will still help you thrive to do better.

~_~ *falls asleep*

EDIT:
WAIT! Dammit! *goes to Wario match-up thread to finish stuff*

[VietGeek]

Alright I'm putting things in order of how I saw them in the vid.
When your getting killed off the top, use Dair. It stalls your momentum (crucial in this game). Idk if you just messed up that time though.

If you're talking about the 1st game my 1st stock, the hitstun from the Fair's knockback was too high to do anything. I Dair on reflex now, sometimes in a bad way. <_<


(i don't understand why that Wolf uses Nair when His side B does that)

Does what? I think he's just trying to combo Nair -> Dsmash. I don't know. Can you explain your confusion?


You seem to lose it just a little when you get hit. Watch out for that.

I don't get it. I mean, when I mean Wolf is like TL, I meant he has weird set-ups and "combos" and stuff. But do explain what you mean.

That second stock on the second vid.....You probably know what to do for that now.

You mean I have to face the ledge, or what? If so, yeah I do now...if not, enlighten me.


Zair->Nair->Stilt/smash is good. keep that up. (maybe as mindgames trying charging it when you think hes gonna roll?)

Sasuke, don't do these weird Silex mindgames on me. Do you mean jab combo/Fsmash?

EDIT:
WAIT! Dammit! *goes to Wario match-up thread to finish stuff*

Haha, good luck.

And I'll try to work on my edge game. I'm usually better than that. Maybe because Wolf isn't a giant robot so I don't wanna go out there and gimp. o_O

[sasukebowser]

Does what? I think he's just trying to combo Nair -> Dsmash. I don't know. Can you explain your confusion?
I mean when hes recovering. And his side B does that one glitch thing and he misses the ledge. Does Nair help him angle up to the ledge or something?
I don't get it. I mean, when I mean Wolf is like TL, I meant he has weird set-ups and "combos" and stuff. But do explain what you mean.
You airdodge just a liiiittle too much.. >_<
But your right.
You mean I have to face the ledge, or what? If so, yeah I do now...if not, enlighten me.
Yeah, face the ledge. That was sort of a waste of a stock. >_>
Sasuke, don't do these weird Silex mindgames on me. Do you mean jab combo/Fsmash?
LMAO. I meant Dsmash and Dtilt. My bad. XD
And I'll try to work on my edge game. I'm usually better than that. Maybe because Wolf isn't a giant robot so I don't wanna go out there and gimp. o_O
Ahh I see. Okay. TL's edge game is sooo good man. One of the best in the game IMO. But Wario> TL there. -___-
I HAVE THE OPPOSITE PROBLEM. T_________T I can't do anything against ROB. Wel,, actually I got better against him, but hes harder for me then like Snake.

[Asdioh]

VietG, can you reply to my youtube comment on the pokemon stadium video? I was wondering why the heeeeeeel your Up B did not hit him as he hung there. Unless "face the ledge" is what you're talking about o_o

[VietGeek]

I mean when hes recovering. And his side B does that one glitch thing and he misses the ledge. Does Nair help him angle up to the ledge or something?

No idea, I think he just wanted to do it to make me reluctant to attack him or something.

You airdodge just a liiiittle too much.. >_<

True. I think it's the fact that I don't have an attack that angles down like Marth's Fair so I feel really unsafe against Wolf. I usually airdodge to Zair though, so that the window of vulnerability I have is smaller than usual. As for when I'm hit, Wolf's Uair is some sort of crazy. I'll try to work on DI-ing away correctly.

Yeah, face the ledge. That was sort of a waste of a stock. >_>

Ignorance is bliss, except that time I was pissed. Ah, I made a rhyme. -_-

LMAO. I meant Dsmash and Dtilt. My bad. XD

That makes more sense. I was actually doing a lot of that these matches. Dtilt is an okay move that needs to be used more imo. It's okay though, not really good. :x

Ahh I see. Okay. TL's edge game is sooo good man. One of the best in the game IMO. But Wario> TL there. -___-
I HAVE THE OPPOSITE PROBLEM. T_________T I can't do anything against ROB. Wel,, actually I got better against him, but hes harder for me then like Snake.

I agree Wario is insane in the air. I think I just didn't want to get sweetspotted by Wolf's illusion and get sent flying faaaarrrrr. I'll need to work on that.

Dude, ROB is just a pain. You have to bait his gyro/lasers that he'll try to use to secure the stage, then punish with Fair or something.

[sasukebowser]

True. I think it's the fact that I don't have an attack that angles down like Marth's Fair so I feel really unsafe against Wolf. I usually airdodge to Zair though, so that the window of vulnerability I have is smaller than usual. As for when I'm hit, Wolf's Uair is some sort of crazy. I'll try to work on DI-ing away correctly.
I know whta you mean. I'd go with bombs here if you can. It makes it like almost impossible for them successfully hit you. But the bomb option is not always safe/ available.
That makes more sense. I was actually doing a lot of that these matches. Dtilt is an okay move that needs to be used more imo. It's okay though, not really good. :x
QFT. Dtilts not even that bad. It's like one of the worst moves, but its still not that bad. It's faster then Ftilt, and covers the space in front of you.
I agree Wario is insane in the air. I think I just didn't want to get sweetspotted by Wolf's illusion and get sent flying faaaarrrrr. I'll need to work on that.
Ahh I hate that. Umm...I THINK Up-B can stop the Wolf illusion?? I know the last hit can at least.
Dude, ROB is just a pain. You have to bait his gyro/lasers that he'll try to use to secure the stage, then punish with Fair or something.
@_@; Ahhh I see. I just sorta waited for him to use his B, then dodge the gyro and do work <_< I need to play better ROBs I think.