Toon Link's Match-up Rediscussion: Meta Knight

[VietGeek]

Ladies and gentlemen, the most balanced character in the game, with lightweight and extreme difficulty in killing...

It's...

GORDOKNIGHT! Meta Knight!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd49/mad_mouth/Super%20Smash%20Bros/1209275300441.jpg

[vbdood1337]

Creepy picture, one hell of a tough match-up. I need soooo much help with this matchup.

[toondiddy]

why dont you get some meta knights to come tell the troubles they have with toon link like you and santi did for the marths

[Stoo99]

Jabs work well since Mk is gonna be in your face alot, and thats really your only option for close quarters combat :>

[TLMarth]

Ha the picture from the EL chat thread.

[sasukebowser]

*waits for Santi to put everything before I add little things he may have missed*
...*cuz he knows more about this matchup and I'm lazy*
Also that pic looks wrong. -.-

[VietGeek]

Bumps to the top.

This is serious business guys.

[QUIVO]

-camp. Make him play your game, not his.i try a more hit and run method. Never let him too Close unless its on your terms.

-zair is great for defensive and offensive set ups.i like zair to bomb a lot.


-keep a bomb in hand to knock MK out of his tornado.

-mix up revoveries so you dont get gimped.

-combos can be difficult. He can dair or nair you, thus you hit and run.

Honestly all i do is camp vs MK.

[DMG]

Where is Santi? He would have great advice considering he plays against a really good MK a lot.

Question: Does the Zair go through the Tornado? I could see that helping out some if it does, and even if it doesn't it is still a great spacing tool.

[QUIVO]

No it doesn't.

I've grabbed an MK out of the tornado before though.
Also, JC bomb throws are awesome vs mk. Spacing + good projectile.

[Santi]

Where is Santi? He would have great advice considering he plays against a really good MK a lot.

Question: Does the Zair go through the Tornado? I could see that helping out some if it does, and even if it doesn't it is still a great spacing tool.

I'm here. I'll just post later after other users put in their two cents and if something new needs to be mentioned. I might aslo get some new recent gameplay video against MK.

MK is vulnerable very early in the tornado animation.
If you hit him with the zair right after he starts his tornado, it will hit him out of it and you will be able to tell because you'll see the orange nado start to swirl but then go away.

But you must hit him with it very early and if your late you will get caught in the nado and take the damage.

I would suggest bomb pull then start to zair. Then you kind of have two options.

[Ørion]

I've never really played this matchup, but from what I know about mk i'll try to guess (I might be horrible wrong XD).

He is fast so camping won't be terribly effective, but definitely mix in some projectiles in there to get some damage in. He is light weight, so try to kill him quickly before he racks up damage on you (as if you need to know that :)).

[QUIVO]

Now that i think about it, i dont really camp. I run and throw stuff the entire time.

Usmash kills at 103 on most stages. Uair can kill earlier depending on their placement above you.

If hë tornadoes and you shield the entire thing, chances are he'll try escaping and then spot dodge if you chase him.use up b. A lot of mks do this for some reason.

If he dthrows, di a bit up and away. You can stop him from chasing you by using zaïr

[Silver Swordsman]

Alright, well I'll take a shot at it since nobody else is saying anything >.>

For one thing, don't approach MK. His attacks are all faster than yours and his range is nearly identical to yours (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, I know that it depends on which attack is being used). You need to camp and keep as much distance between you two as possible so that he doesn't get close enough to attack. Unfortunately, MK has a simple solution to get passed your arrows and boomerangs, his tornado.

Zair and bombs are your friend here. Try to carry a bomb at all times. Whenever you're holding a bomb, you can use boomerangs and arrows to pressure him and whenever he uses his tornado to get passed them, your bomb will go right through it. Whenever you need to use an aerial, drop the bomb by pressing Z and immediately use the aerial, so that you'll catch it while using the aerial at the same time (this has been around since the beginning of Brawl but hardly anyone uses it). Zair is your best melee range attack against him, which thankfully can also be used while holding a bomb (air dodge then press A or Z for those who don't know).

In short: Keep a bomb out at all times, run away whenever he comes close, and just be as annoying as you can to him. When you finally get him away far enough, take a deep breath. Just think of the D-taunt :)

[sasukebowser]

Okay I'm gonna try even though I don't know a lot about the matchup. =(
Edge stuff (AKA, the only stuff I know)
MK's recovery rapes. Don't even try to go up to him and gimp him. Use bombs and aother projectiles and try to follow through. MK can go under the level and come up the other side to grab the edge, so be wary of that. I would suggest that when you start seeing him go under, start running to the other side of the level. About halfway across the level, SH, pull out a bomb, and proceed to the other side. Once there, throw the bomb down and grab the edge.
*thinks* Uhh....
Shuttle Loop is insane. It kills easily and comes out VERY fast. He can slash after the SL to land on the level with no lag, so watch out for that. If he tries to shuttle loop you while your on the level,shield an HOLD IT. Expect a Dsmash or something like that afterwords.
Thats all I got. T_T



I usually just try to be as cheap as I can when I play MK. Sasuke's camping skills ftw/l (usually).

[ZeroXMachine]

Uggh, finally. This match-up is pain.

Avoid fighting off-stage. MK always wins off-stage (if he's good).

[QUIVO]

I wouldn't even fight at the edge. That's asking to be gimped...

[VietGeek]

Bump. In case anyone else wants to add anything.

Also:

CP: Final Destination or Delfino
Ban: Rainbow Cruise/Pokemon Stadium I (high ceiling is HIGH) or whatever.

As for match-up ratio, it's 7/3 or 65/35 imo. You're going to be running for your life half of the time in my experience.

Perhaps that's what tripping was for...

to signify you can't escape MK...

O_o;

[sasukebowser]

Omg.
Viet your post made my day.

*thinks* Uhhh....MK's can cancel most of the landing lag of the tornado by making it go in the air a little at the last second. Watch out for that? @_@
As if they need to cancel any MORE lag.

[Santi]

*wants to contribute*


Dont know what to say :/


Stay mobile.

[DemonicTrilogy]

Some Meta Knight players find us tough to verse because we have projectiles... I guess the best way to verse is to projectile spam, run a lot, and attack when there is an openning (if there IS an opening),

[sasukebowser]

...
Aka spam. -_-

Man.
**** MK.
I regret playing him in Kirby Air Ride because of Brawl.

[Thechene]

Where is Santi? He would have great advice considering he plays against a really good MK a lot.

Question: Does the Zair go through the Tornado? I could see that helping out some if it does, and even if it doesn't it is still a great spacing tool.

zair can interrupt the tornado.


you have to drop the tip right on top of metaknight in the tornado.

it isn't easy, and doesn't seem practical yet, but it is possible.

[Asdioh]

Everything Santi did in his Toon Nasty did against Meta Knight, do that :)

Also, try a somersault, use the brake, and use bombs wisely.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Erm... try and slow the game down so he doesn't rape as fast, pray for a mistake or a pratfall and hope to God you're not playing some robotic player like M2K?

[NeoCrono]

I wish I could contrbute, the only thing I can say is what santi said. Stay mobile, keep a bomb on you at all times. Be ready to zair at a moments notice. Camp when you can, but be ready cause he is fast. But all of this has been said already lol. Just try and avoid the rape lol.

[VietGeek]

Just a note:

If MK Uthrows you while you have a bomb, and it explodes at the peak of its animation, you'll die while he's protected by his invincibility during that throw.

MK can obviously manipulate this by timing in grab jabs at you to stall then throw accordingly.

[NeoCrono]

Whoa, I didnt know that. that is pretty.... gay to say the least. I wish I knew what to do against this guy, keep moving, space well, watch out for the up B, zair quickly, and avoid the rape

[QUIVO]

Just a note:

If MK Uthrows you while you have a bomb, and it explodes at the peak of its animation, you'll die while he's protected by his invincibility during that throw.

MK can obviously manipulate this by timing in grab jabs at you to stall then throw accordingly.

That happened to me a while back. -_-
I was playing an online ladder match and I had low percent when he had high percent, two stocks each. Then he did the uthrow and killed us both. It screwed me over and I lost the whole set.

[sasukebowser]

ROFL. XD
I'm sorry.
Thats really funny.
(Not it happening to you Quivo, just it happening in general)

[zaf]

Alright words from an mk main.

~~

-I have trouble against toons on levels with short ceilings. They tend to usmash me earlier then i expect and i die a lot easier. CP PLEASE

-Like santi said, zair can hit MK out of his tornado at early stages of it. If you cant get it done, have a bomb at hand. So i suggest fighting MK with a lot of bombs. The stun is also helpful to get in some free hits. I hate being bombed.

-After i UpB out of shield or off ground, i always end with a glide attack. Glide attacks priority is broken. So i suggest retreating after the MK upb's.

-Also on that same note, do not pressure mk's shield so much with attacks, you will get upb'd.

-Almost always try to land with a Canceled arrow. Mk is a fast char and can get close to you fast. An arrow in his path stalls him and gives you more time to think and more around.

-Retreat your zair PLEASE. I told santi the same thing. If you zair and MK has room to dash attack under you he will do it. So when you zair retreat so that the mk does not get this opportunity.

- Attack and get out. Attack with a nair, retreat to a canceled arrow. MK is not a char you want to fight hit for hit. Everytime a toon tries to get up in my area being cocky, i tornado or upb. You need to know when to attack.

- With attacking and getting out, i notice if toons are too close to me using melee attacks i can out prioritize him and hit him with ftilts or i wil dtilt. This is dangerous for toons cuz i can dash attack or grab after a dtilt. Also after a ftilt i can just do another if they di bad.

Hope it helps fellow tooners.

[NeoCrono]

Actially, that helped out alot. I played my friend who uses metaknight, and I did better then I usally do lol. Thanks :)

[Lobos]

Don't know if anyone mentioned this but if you get put/thrown/hit into the air and expect an UPb from MK, a laggy Dair will kill him if timed correctly. Don't know what percentages tho....

[Dojo.]

HI :)

10MKs

[Santi]

HI :)

10MKs

*crushes 10MKs*


I need all the help I can get in this matchup now.
I will get super raped in about 3 weeks.

[Venusdude21]

Pretty much just stay mobile, don't try to gimp him, he always wins at gimping. And Side tilt sends him quite far.

[rebd121]

Is this a hard match-up for Toon Link as well?

Is there no counter to the Meta?

[sasukebowser]

I will get super raped in about 3 weeks.

Me too. =(
I ish coming. Guarantied ride. =D
But my parents might change their minds. ~_~



Dojo give us tips. D=
Or something idk. Your good with MK.

[Dojo.]

Me too. =(
I ish coming. Guarantied ride. =D
But my parents might change their minds. ~_~



Dojo give us tips. D=
Or something idk. Your good with MK.

Try M2K. He's gonna be at HOBO 11...

Um...
I dunno really.
Patience is the key?
Stay calm in the face of danger.
Try not to go off the edge. Worst place you can be.
I really don't know much besides common sense stuff.
Santi would have alot more knowledge than me on this. He can take me to one stock close matches if he stays calm and patient.

That's all I got. Sorry :\

[Jer]

Bombs and rang' are my best friends. I play w/ Zaf quite often, and i always screw him over with these, zair to grab is always good. Try to chain bairs at low % but the gimp is kinda hard to pull off. NEVER try to spike while MK up B's, i got so screwed with that like 5 times.