Zair, worth it, or not? You tell me.

[Shiroi]

Hey guys, I'm a TL main who's pretty good, pretty intermediate. I just want your opinion on this. Is zair worth the trouble of putting into your gamestyle or not? So far, I'm fine without, so anyone wanna change my mind?

[Asdioh]

I'm nowhere near amazing as a TL player, but I can definitely tell you that you'll want to learn how to zair. When facing higher-level opponents, it's great for spacing, and can lead to combos and good mindgames. I'm still not good at incorporating it myself. But you can do stuff like dodge and immediately hit Z, and you'll hookshot in the air, and that works while holding a bomb. Stuff like that...and zair has no landing lag, which is what makes it so great. You can follow up with, for example, a grab right after landing a blow, and it's pretty much guaranteed to land.

[Liquid_Kai?]

Watch a Santi vid and tell me Zair isnt important.

;)

[VietGeek]

Watch a Santi vid and tell me Zair isnt important.

;)

Zair isn't important.

[clowsui]

I'll try to get in some vids with QUIVO ~2 weeks from now, he's coming down for a monthly probably

ZAir is super important, especially against stupid people like MK who like to get close >_>;
ZAir sets up for quite a few things, mainly projectiles stuff...if you're not good w/ projectiles it's kinda useless. ZAir is actually quite nice to punish bad spacing + interrupt recoveries (Phantasm >_>)

[QUIVO]

Zair > grab
Zair> Nair
Zair > Nair > Arrow
Zair > Projectile
Zair > Usmash
Zair > Bomb
Zair > Bomb > Usmash/Fair/Nair

Add an airdodge to the beginning of these, and they can mess around with people.
Zair is too good.
Great for spacing and setting things up.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Zair isn't needed against ALL opponents (I mean, you'll still own a Pikachu without it).

But against someone like Wolf who's a total [bleep] to approach... you do. Nair and Fair just don't work that well.

[sasukebowser]

Toon Link's Zair is more important then sex.
PSHHHHHHH
But no, its pretty important.

[VietGeek]

Marth's Dolphin Slash is more important then sex.
PSHHHHHHH
It really is. Don't deny it now.

Yeah, what Sasuke said. Learn to use it well.

[sasukebowser]

LMAO. So true.
Sasukes the best

Thanks Viet! ^_^
Don't get maddddd >_>


Get glad!
Gladware! XD

[Santi]

It's super important.
And I would say it's important against everyone.


Any move that keeps you spaced and auto cancels.... should be considered and important move in all matchups.

TL's zair is like Marth's fair imo.

[F3ma Ch33f]

TL's zair is too good not to put into your gamestyle so many follow up moves you can do after it. So yes it is worth putting it into your gamestyle

[xmisosoupx]

definitely worth it... since zair has no lag... ur just like hmm i missed.. oh well... nuthing bad happens... but if u hit.. ur liek YESSSS AN OPPORTUNITY lol so... yeah :P

[Giggidax]

its been awhile since ive postedo nt he boards but is zair worth it? i dont know wat u mean by that, Zair is a great move that has its usefulness in certain situations.
i myself use it a bit and i find it pretty viable for edgeguarding since toon links attacks dont range very far Zair is one of his farthest ranged attacks besides his projectiles

[Alzi]

Toon Link's Zair is more important then sex.
PSHHHHHHH
But no, its pretty important.

OMG.

I should be using this Zair more then i do. I did the zair to bomb combo on a wario it worked out great but then i went to up smash and he shielded.

[zaf]

It's super important.
And I would say it's important against everyone.


Any move that keeps you spaced and auto cancels.... should be considered and important move in all matchups.

TL's zair is like Marth's fair imo.

yea i would agree with santi here. It is as important as marths fair, but shouldn't be use as much as marths fair.

OMG.

I should be using this Zair more then i do. I did the zair to bomb combo on a wario it worked out great but then i went to up smash and he shielded.

be quicker, or try jump canceling the bomb to get a little extra boost.

[Veggieburger_802]

Yeah, it's definitely important. Right up there with the good ol' bair. In any disputes, though... I say always listen to Santi. He's the man.

[ImpactAR]

Zair is important.

IMO, Zair is more of a offensive poking move that should be combined with other moves (usually projectiles), not to be confused with combo start. So use it defensively or to poke and aid in racking on damage.

[Santi]

yea i would agree with santi here. It is as important as marths fair, but shouldn't be use as much as marths fair.
Depends on how aggresive you want to be I guess.

Yeah, it's definitely important. Right up there with the good ol' bair. In any disputes, though... I say always listen to Santi. He's the man.

NO your the man!
=)

[DMG]

Zair is good people, it's a great tool why not use it? Just sayin

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

It's good for a low lag combo, especially into fair, but it's not completely necessary.

[3GOD]

Zair:
First hits on frame 11
Landing lag: 2
Shield hit lag: 6
Shield stun: 7
Advantage: -1

You decide.

[Santi]

It's good for a low lag combo, especially into fair, but it's not completely necessary.
It isn't necessary to combo either. It pokes at your opponent adding little damage and keeps your space.
Almost like another projectile except theres so many options than can come from it.

Zair:
First hits on frame 11
Landing lag: 2
Shield hit lag: 6
Shield stun: 7
Advantage: -1

You decide.

Landing lag?
What move doesn't have a landing lag.

It's his best aerial that can help keep your distance. It auto cancels, which allows you to do the move close to the ground instead of on the rise. You can zair with a bomb in your hand. (Much easier than a bair or nair with bomb)

And even if you do space bad just jab right after (since it auto cancels) to prevent a punishment.

And the PRIORITY!?!?
Don't forget that.

The possibilities that can come from the zair are so much more diverse rather than another aerial or projectile you decide to do.

Zair> grab
Zair> bomb throw>>???
Zair> Nair> Nair/ arrow/etc etc
Zair> jab>??????

[3GOD]

My point with the bold "landing lag" is that it's VERY low. Actually, it's the standard landing lag for any short hop with out an aerial attack (higher falls have a little more lag upon landing).

Also, once I compile all of Toon Link's frame data, I'll post it all and you'll see why -1 advantage is good. Your opponent can move 1 frame (from their shielding position) before you can do anything, but compared to most attacks in Brawl, this is a decent trade off.

Basically, it's a great move frame-wise and obviously good for it's spacing capabilities.

[sasukebowser]

Santi I'm uploading videos I want you to watch. =)

Also, once I compile all of Toon Link's frame data, I'll post it s.

I <3 you.

[Santi]

My point with the bold "landing lag" is that it's VERY low. Actually, it's the standard landing lag for any short hop with out an aerial attack (higher falls have a little more lag upon landing).

Also, once I compile all of Toon Link's frame data, I'll post it all and you'll see why -1 advantage is good. Your opponent can move 1 frame (from their shielding position) before you can do anything, but compared to most attacks in Brawl, this is a decent trade off.

Basically, it's a great move frame-wise and obviously good for it's spacing capabilities.

I'm sorry I took it the wrong way. I thought you were implying the move had a negative advantage or whatever and I was like wtf this move is good.
Too good not to use.

I'm glad were on the same page now. lol.


Sasuke! let me see em bro.

I'll have videos in a few days as well and EVERYONE shall see :D

[sasukebowser]

I had my 3:30 moment. But it was different.
Not as sexy. =(
But how could it be as sexy? lmao.

But seriously, I think you guys are gonna love em.
It'll probably take until tomorrow to upload them though. =(
Youtube is so slow. I'll just leave my computer on all night.





The short version of this thread:
Zair is the smex.
Use it.

[Shiroi]

Thanks alot for all the tips. I'll [TRY] to be using zair in my gameplay.
But when I think about it, since zair is like a projectile, isnt that what TL's arrows are for?:confused:
I mean theres barely lag on it.

[neon..?]

zair is a monster.

[F00LY]

Did anyone else have the issue with full hopping when they wanted to Zair? XD I kept doing that while trying to learn. Just takes practice like everything else though. Recently incorporated it more into my gameplay and it feels so good everytime you get a minicombo off of it.

[SmokeyBBQ]

Yes! You definitly should start using ZAIR!

Creates so many opportunities, can be followed up by pretty much anything, and surprises your opponent with its long range.

Once you've fully incorparated it into your game, you'll see the diffrence.