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View Full Version : Toon Link's: To Balance a Game


urdailywater
10-20-2008, 08:41 AM
The SBR has been considering 'balancing' the game Brawl as of now through continuous patches by hacking the game through Ocarina. There was a lot of arguments about Melee 2.0 and whatnot through the last week but instead of Wavedashing and L-Cancelling, they suggest simply nerfs and buffs.

Go to the thread that started it:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200495

and now to the current Debate about how it works:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200533

Here's my opinion on the entire project:

One think that would be bad about this is that the patches will be the responsibility of the community itself, and which can cause lots of arguements.

Ever played World of Warcraft? "Nerf rogues, buff mages!". There will be a lot of that happening if this project succeeds. I'm prepared myself, but it'll still happen.

and someone who clarified. Incoming TL;DR:

I don't think the overall meta-game of Brawl is stagnant to the point of hacking (yet). In a sense hacking the game to create balance can damage the meta-game; and more importantly the Brawl community.

Say if one person mastered a character (post balancing hacks) and ended up reaching the epitome of said characters meta game.. Said person becomes so good and so recognized by the community, that he inspires many to pick up his main.. From here that character's metagame flourishes; and for a period of time progresses faster than the majority of the cast..

The problem lies within the rest of the community at this point. Now that we've discovered ways to modify Brawl, people begin to expect more buffs from their characters when they lose a certain matchup. They no longer feel the need to progress on their own instead of finding ways to get around their main's faults.. There have been many games that have tried perfect balance, and the idea sounds good on paper; but the human factor will make it a near impossible feat for the fighting game genre.

Hacking the game to achieve perfect balance sadly would damage the overall community in outcries for buffs and nerfs, rather than present an ideal perfect balance everyone could enjoy. Just my 2 cents


What are your opinions on the situation though? If you think Toon Link needs a "buff", then how what would you like to see? Are you against patching, thinking it would cause to much contraversy amongst the Smash World Forums?

If anything needs a nerf, what would you like to see? I'm not against nerfing entirely but to balance a game then it would be needed of course.

TLMarth
10-20-2008, 09:47 AM
Buffs to TL
Dair is not fast falling, but retains spike :)
Zair is longer than a million shield breakers
quickdraw after boomerang (i.e. shorter boomerang throw time)
no lag on catching boomerang
Uber powerful Up smash

TLMSheikant
10-20-2008, 09:54 AM
No forward air start up lag would be awesome. foward tilt has a lot more knockback almost as much as forward air. Like TLMarth said dair spikes but isnt a stall then fall. Arrows do 6% uncharged and put u on fire, melee anyone? Boomerang's sweetspot does 15% instead of 11. Down tilt has the same range as metaknight's. More than 2 bombs can be out at the same time.

Hyro
10-20-2008, 12:40 PM
From above, I liked:

More than two bombs can be out at once and arrows do fire damage like young links from melee.

The one I did not like was changing TL's dair to not be a stall and fall. In my opinion, while it may not be the strongest, TL's spike is one of the best in the game because it comes out so fast. The fact that he plummets downward is what makes his spike so badass. I wouldn't take away the dair's properties, but I would LOVE to be able to cancel the dair once you miss it :D

urdailywater
10-20-2008, 01:05 PM
Okay guys I can see you want major buffs, but before you start to suggest just think about how everyone else is effected if these were to be patched to Toon Link?

No stall then fall would probably make many cry for a major nerf on TL seeing as he has a great spike, and GREAT recovery I might add. I myself would only allow this if they reduced how much it spikes the opponent to lets say Falco's spike. Maybe even a little less. That would sound reasonable and help Toon Links so there would be no catostrophic consequences if he were to miss off-stage.


We're already high middle tier. That's high on top if you ask me.

Just throwing that out there.

ImpactAR
10-20-2008, 01:35 PM
TL is good as is. He overall has only like 4 bad match up at most.

I honestly think that hacking the game isn't going to work out because it'll require a people to be a little program savvy and there are people who have trouble following directions. Plus it'll discourage new comers to pick up Brawl and play it competitively if they were to be told that you have to hack and adjust the game to a certain standard. Also there will always be some imbalance some people will always complain about. There would be too much updating.

I personally would like the Dair not to be a diving move cause i would have more of a use for it then. However, as it is now it's still has it's uses and TL has a load of options already.

I'd say if MK and Snake were banned that would be balance the game a lot. Alright, maybe just MK, not Snake. I just hate Snake. Stupid Utilt.

Lobos
10-20-2008, 01:58 PM
This is stupid, not everyone is gonna have access to do hack codes or even want to go to the trouble to do all this. It's never gonna be a tournament standard and it's dumb to compare to PC games that have mods because getting a mod/buff/nerf to a PC game are easier than what has to be done with a wii.

Rutger
10-20-2008, 02:24 PM
I am all for hacking the game, not everyone is like me though and many people will not accept it(at least not right away.) I am interested to see where this leads, though I'd be more surprised if it takes off then it being forgotten sadly.

As for TL, for now we should not look at changing him, start with the top tiers and work there way to say the end of top tier and then look at all of Low tier, then Middle and finally high and just give them small tweaks. So TL being the top of Middle should not be looked at for a while and I believe that little to no changes should be made to him.

I agree with the no two bomb limit, fire arrows would be nice but really is not balancing anything, leave Dair as is because it is a good high risk high reward move(that and I love how dair is now >_>), Boomerang catch lag should stay because you can avoid it by grabbing a bomb or doing an attack.

That's all I have to say.

QUIVO
10-20-2008, 02:36 PM
Leave everything be

SamuraiPanda
10-20-2008, 04:10 PM
That thread was about a side project that we were considering as a possibility. It is not happening now, nor will it happen any time soon.

So stop jumping the gun.