Best Ways To Projectile Spam?!!

[SmokeyBBQ]

Hiya! This is my first ever thread. YAY :)

I was searching the Toon Link boards and could'nt find anything on Projectile Spamming/Projectile wall. (Sorry if there already is:dizzy:)
When playing I attempt to make a wall, but there's sometimes gaps in zi defense, I get mixed up, or pullin out bombs & B-rang catch lag slows me down to much and I get hit. :( :urg:

Was wondering what the best way to use Toon Links great projectiles to the MAX! :psycho::psycho::psycho::confused:

Somthing like SH, pull out bomb as you rise then Quickdraw as you land, so the arrow provides some cover and the lag is cancelled, then B-rang, SH bomb throw, Quickdraw. Repeat etc
OR
Ive heard of: Bomb throw up, B-rang thrown at an angle then start SHDA? For an ohkish wall.

Well you guys have been here longer then i have.
Discuss.

[urdailywater]

Learn to do SHDA, I found that very important for keeping my opponents away if I'm going to play the defensive. Learn to shield or just press A whenever the boomerang comes back to you, always, so it'll keep the catch lag away.

Also, for bombs, just get them out whenever you have a chance. Play mid-range always so you don't have any problems keeping your opponent away.

And always keep a bomb on you. Maybe not literally, but they're pretty much your most important projectile so keep it on you.
Yah, that's all I can really say though >.<

[Alus]

Learn to do SHDA, I found that very important for keeping my opponents away if I'm going to play the defensive. Learn to shield or just press A whenever the boomerang comes back to you, always, so it'll keep the catch lag away.

Also, for bombs, just get them out whenever you have a chance. Play mid-range always so you don't have any problems keeping your opponent away.

And always keep a bomb on you. Maybe not literally, but they're pretty much your most important projectile so keep it on you.
Yah, that's all I can really say though >.<

really?

i just throw something every time my opponent moves...

[T3h Kaiser]

And always keep a bomb on you. Maybe not literally, but they're pretty much your most important projectile so keep it on you.


This may be a stupid question, but is there any possible way to reduce the lag from the bombs? I try to make use of them, but it just doesn't feel all that worth it due to the lag; it just seems smarter to make more use of arrows and the boomerang.

While I'm at it, is there any how-to vids on SHDA out there?

Kaiser,
New Toon Link Mainer
xoxo

[Lobos]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153532

Use the stickies

[QUIVO]

Make sure ALL your projectiles are spaced far enough so you don't get raped after you throw it. Try not to leave yoursellf open, and throw things where you think they will be.

Learn to arrow cancel. it will stop ground approaches. If they're close you can retreat with bairs/nairs to arrow cancels.

Short hop bomb pull to arrow cancel.

SHDA is good, but I don't use it as often as the other stuff i mentioned.

Also, to get away if they're close you can always double jump over and throw bombs down or drop them.

Jump cancelled bombs help you space more.

For bomb pulls I usually just jump away and pull a bomb. It's not bad as long as you're moving and pulling the bombs out.

Angled boomerangs seem to work well.

[DemonicTrilogy]

What would SHDA be?

[Donkey Bong]

if they're far away enough, its useful to charge up an arrow when your boomerang is coming back at you, the boomerang catch animation will not come out, and you'll have another projectile ready to go

[TheJerm]

Angle'd boomerangs do work, but thats what they expect. So I say throw in a straight one every now n then

[sasukebowser]

Theres no one certain way to do it, even in a particular matchup.
It all depends on your opponent really.
We can give you so called "advanced" ways to so stuff, but not the best thing to do always.

You just have to figure it out for yourself during matches.
Sorry this was a pointless post. =P

[Shadow Moth]

mix it up a little with the bombs. If a certain move always precedes a bomb, it will be that much easier for your opponent to dodge your best projectile.

[Pyroloserkid]

Somthing like SH, pull out bomb as you rise then Quickdraw as you land, so the arrow provides some cover and the lag is cancelled, then B-rang, SH bomb throw, Quickdraw. Repeat etc
This is pretty much what I do.

mix it up a little with the bombs. If a certain move always precedes a bomb, it will be that much easier for your opponent to dodge your best projectile.

I agree. Mix it up with bombs. I usually like to use bombs every 2nd projectile.

Ex: Arrow, Pull out Bomb, Boomerang, Throw Bomb, Arrow, Pull Out Bomb, etc.


Just try and keep something out at all times, whether it be a bomb in hand or a boomerang flying around.

Don't focus too much on projectile spam or else you'll get raped. Don't try and camp with it, instead use it as an approach into aerials and smash attacks.
This way you can build up damage and get kills a lot faster than just hanging back and spamming.

[Shadow Moth]

exactly! but without the repetitive pattern. Otherwise you will become too predictable.

[Pyroloserkid]

I usually do that pattern for about the first 10 seconds or so, and then get to business.


After I'm done with that pattern, I just try to always have a projectile out while I approach with Aerials and such.

[Shadow Moth]

Then why didn't you say so o_O

[Pyroloserkid]

Because this thread is more like a "How to use projectiles?" thread.

Not a "What's your playstyle?" thread.


Why do you feel the need to have the last post in every thread in this forum?

[Shadow Moth]

I don't have to. There are plenty of recent threads I haven't even posted in. I'm just curious and feel like if I don't ask I'll never find out. Also saying that you should break away from the pattern after 10 seconds is plenty relevant to the topic.

[Pyroloserkid]

The thing is, you don't really have to be awesome to win.

I played this guy, and really all he did was stand at one side of the stage, spam, and when I got close he'd Fmash or hit me away with an aerial or something. I ended up losing to him.

Of course I just picked TL after, outcamped him and raped him, but this just goes to show that if you REALLY want to carry out that pattern forever, you can =P.

[Shadow Moth]

Hmmm I didn't realize it was possible. I'm more of a proactive person anyway so my theory is bomb to boomerang to aerial and it works okay.

[Pyroloserkid]

Returning Boomerang is also really good for USmashes and Fsmashes.


Actually, a returning boomerang hit can pretty much go into anything.
But for an unexpected kill go for the smashes.

[TLMarth]

I find that you don't always have to be limited by a short hop. You can use a boomerang and then quickdraw, or bomb then boomerang.
Anyways, SHDA is probably the most efficient spamming technique, but sometimes the arrows don't hit or they shield all of them or they go over them. I think arrows are much better for slipping in an attack after your aerials, bomb throw and pull.
So yes, bomb pull can be covered.
Always have your boomerang flying around somewhere

[QUIVO]

Everything I said earlier you shouldn't do all the time.

I wouldn't even say most of the time. Projectile usage depends on the situation.

[Shadow Moth]

What is the situation determined by?

[SmokeyBBQ]

Thanks guys this is really good stuff! :) Toon Link Boards rock

SHDA is annoyingly tough to do...or do you have to change your button settings?
Is that allows in tournaments??!

[VietGeek]

Thanks guys this is really good stuff! :) Toon Link Boards rock

SHDA is annoyingly tough to do...or do you have to change your button settings?
Is that allows in tournaments??!

You can do it on default controls. That's what I do now, I don't use my L-trigger as an aid anymore (just for jump-cancel item tosses and Dolphin Slash OoS lol).

So assign jump to a shoulder button and learn to shorthop from the buttons and you can then practice SHDA easier.

Also custom controls are allowed in tournaments. Unless it's a lame tournament. <_<

[Shadow Moth]

Wow. I've been to some pretty lame tournaments lately.

[Z3rr]

QUIVO covered most everything...

Ehh, I like throwing bombs up, this gives TL a decent defense. This combined with boomerang angling and quickdraw and TL will seem unapproachable to many. If your oppenent isn't paying attention, the bomb might provide you with a free approach a couple seconds later. If they are, they'll either dodge it (free approach as well if spacing permits), or catch it- in which case, they've limited their options making your life easier assuming you know how to fight against items.

Bomb dropping (Z) is also fantastic. Combined with a well timed boomerang throw and you have a decent retreat to reclaim safe space or resume projectile camping (slightly ironic, hehe).

Learn how to cancel your boomerang RETURN, be it a SH to miss it, bomb pull, w/e. I don't know how many times I've been effed over from the return lag on that.

All that comes to mind off the top of my head... just get all the short hop tricks down first, then work on your theory. Remember, you can Z-air to quickdraw as well, that's a biggie. Otherwise, just practice and play more, eventually your projectile understanding will become second nature and you won't find yourself in those awkward moments where you don't have your boomerang to throw (but try anyways!), bombed by your own, etc.

QUESTION: Is it possible to jump backwards while aiming the SHDA forwards? I can rarely pull this off consistently... perhaps a better control setting for this (tested it with C-Stick to special with no luck)...? Maybe this is just one of those very, very precise things I still need to practice at... Idk. Any tips?

EDIT: Might be willing to write a guide on projectile usage with additional character match-up info if I have the time... friggin love TL's projectile game xD

[flyingcow989]

Thanks guys this is really good stuff! :) Toon Link Boards rock

SHDA is annoyingly tough to do...or do you have to change your button settings?
Is that allows in tournaments??!

i use the wii mote and it is ridiculously more easy to do SHDA than on the gc controller because you jump with the left hand and b twice with the right hand. I've tried doing it on the gc controler and it is very hard with X/Y+BB. I think some people jump with "L" so they can use both hands rather than relying on a very fast thumb for X, A, and B(finger cramps anyone?).

For me, the only thing that is hard to do on the wiimote is forward smash with a bomb. I don't even understand how you do it with the gc controller. seems like it would be uncomfortable to hold A while you use the c-stick.

EVerything else though is very easy with this wiimote setup: up/right/left arrow set to smash, down set to grab(for dropping bombs). Everything else is default. Shake smash is on, but i only use it for snake.

short hop air dodge zair - jump, hold shield, press a, let go.
short hop double bair - use directional pad so you can DI with the bairs.
shorthop bombpull qac - jump, down b, b.

Again timing is much easier if you have 2 fingers to do this rather than just your thumb.

So basically, i think its going to be hard or even painful if you use x to jump.

I personally would rank toonlink with snake as the best characters to use with the wiimote.

[flyingcow989]

QUIVO covered most everything...

QUESTION: Is it possible to jump backwards while aiming the SHDA forwards? I can rarely pull this off consistently... perhaps a better control setting for this (tested it with C-Stick to special with no luck)...? Maybe this is just one of those very, very precise things I still need to practice at... Idk. Any tips?



How about running backwards, and then shda forward? Though most of the time i try to do this, i end up doing a wave bounce with the first arrow which kinda defeats the purpose of going backwards.

If you can get the wavebounce to go the other way, i think you can do it but im not sure about that.

[Shadow Moth]

QUESTION: Is it possible to jump backwards while aiming the SHDA forwards? I can rarely pull this off consistently... perhaps a better control setting for this (tested it with C-Stick to special with no luck)...? Maybe this is just one of those very, very precise things I still need to practice at... Idk. Any tips?
How about running backwards, and then shda forward? Though most of the time i try to do this, i end up doing a wave bounce with the first arrow which kinda defeats the purpose of going backwards.

If you can get the wavebounce to go the other way, i think you can do it but I'm not sure about that.

Maybe RAR>SHDA ; )

[TLMSheikant]

SHDA is easier if u use ur left thumb to press b and ur other thumb to press x or y at least for me. I can do SHDA anyway but i feel more comfortable that way. U should try this if ur still having SHDA problems.

[Shadow Moth]

but if you do that you'll have a harder time moving while SHDAing, won't you?

[QUIVO]

SHDA is easier if u use ur left thumb to press b and ur other thumb to press x or y at least for me. I can do SHDA anyway but i feel more comfortable that way. U should try this if ur still having SHDA problems..

I know you said you can do it anyway, but why would you do it with two thumbs? It'd be impractical to do it that way mid-match.


Also, you can do like pivot dash dance type thing to move forward or backwards with SHDA (from a normal standing position)

[Shadow Moth]

Yea but that would be difficult to do with TLMS's method.

[Z3rr]

Maybe RAR>SHDA ; )

Well, exactly.

Rather, my issue is that I usually either-

A) RAR fails to execute, instead a horizontal hop occurs while executing the SHDA.
B) Execute the RAR, but due to the control stick movement, a boomerang throw occurs instead.
C) Execute the RAR, but cannot shoot the second arrow soon enough to quickdraw it.

I've done it a few times, and I'm pretty sure I simply need to practice my control stick movement awhile until I get it down, as it does seem rather precise (harder than Yoshi's DR anyhow). Just wondering if there were any tips on the actual execution of the RAR>SHDA tech.

@flyingcow- I'll mess around more with the wavebouncing of the arrow shots, I know there's practical spacing applications with that but I've yet to truly put it to good use.

@McDingus- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172216

[Ryos4]

im not sure what people have said before just because i didnt feel like reading. But the point i see of toon links projectiles are mostly just for combo purposes. Or trapping ur opponent.

The real use for a projectile in my eyes is to force them into a bad position. It doesn't have to hit them to be useful. It can make them dodge at a bad time, leaving them open for a killing move of ur choice.

[TLMarth]

Why do you need to rar to shda backwards? couln't you just press the opposite direction before firing? (well I admit either way uses the same number of buttons and stuff) lol. never min.

[Delta_BP26]

I normally throw a boomerang angled to the floor, then SHDArrow. This prevents an aerial or grounded approach. I've been getting used to it, too.

[Shadow Moth]

how does it prevent an ground approach? The only way I can see that happening is if they are already so close it doesn't matter. Besides, I thought SHDA was supposed to stop an approach so why would you need something else that just wastes time. Also, it is very easy to air-dodge a boomerang unless you are at the peak of the throw.

[sasukebowser]

how does it prevent an ground approach? The only way I can see that happening is if they are already so close it doesn't matter. Besides, I thought SHDA was supposed to stop an approach so why would you need something else that just wastes time. Also, it is very easy to air-dodge a boomerang unless you are at the peak of the throw.

SH Zair stops most ground approaches.
Might want to air dodge first too.