ImpactAR
11-17-2008, 10:27 PM
This is a topic I want to discuss is the TL vs Snake match up.
To my surprise, this match up still goes even up to this day. I didn't really post much about this match before because I figured the board as a whole will come to the same conclusion I have. Snake counters TL.
I want to point out some properties of each character to help explain my conclusion.
MY EXPERIENCE WITH SNAKES
I play two good Snake players regular. One has a very projectile game including a very good cooking game and somehow works aerials better than I think Snake can. Works the ground good too. He does main Snake have placed tournaments though recently he's been to busy.
The other is a more well rounded Snake exploiting each of Snakes good aspect to a good degree. He mains Pit, but in certain match ups he will go Snake because it's "easier" or more advantageous. I was to first to suffer this strategy when he surprise me when he counter picked Snake against me in a tournament. What a jerk! :D He also placed tournaments.
I have lost to NC's Ali in tournaments a few times as TL. He plays more of a campy Snake. That's the extent of my campy Snake experiences. Another placer.
GENERAL FLOW OF MATCHES
Snake does much higher damage per hit and hits harder. TL has to work much harder to rack up damage in order to KO Snake and already have natural difficulty KOing in general. On the other hand, Snake can rack up damage with far less hits and have safer and more effective kill moves and can kill TL as 1/3 less that what TL needs to kill Snake.
CLOSE RANGE
Snake's Jabs, Ftilt, and Utilt versus TL's Jabs, Bair, and Nair. What else can I say. TL is at a bad end of the damage ratio here.
Combo-wise, TL can rack up 40-50% damage on Snake to begin with given the bad DI. But after that 40-50%, is there a reliable and effective way to build up damage while avoiding damage yourself? Not so much.
MID RANGE & REACH
At this range you are in Snake's Ftilt, QDA, or DAC's range. Reverse it. Snake is in TL's projectile range, but requires a bit more time to come out or set up. Starting off with a Zair or a surprise Dash Nair is really your move reliable options. Here you're still at a worst damage ratio here and now add quickness of reach.
Nintendo also added that crappy property on dashes where you can catch items so Snake players have to option to QDA or DAC and catch the bombs by chance. If you have a bomb in hand, and you throw them Snake may catch it and connect the dash attack. If they mistimed it than the explosion may occur and it will do damage to both players. If you don't throw it and defend, Snake's dash attack has fairly good recovery making hard for you to punish. This gives Snake players a low risk, yet high return during this situation.
LONG DISTANCE & SPAMMING
Have you guys notice getting hit by Snakes grenade does as much damage as TL's arrows? No, I don't mean having an explosion appear in front of your face Just plain getting hit smack dab in the face with a grenade.
From a far, Snake can pull out a grenade and toss it further and faster than TL send an arrow. TL bombs have more of a mid range reach. You can "see" TL projectiles coming at you easily. Now if it was cooked it would even be more damage.
AERIAL GAME
This is TL's only real advantage. He's faster, more agile, and take it to the air faster. But honestly the only real safe bet is to rain down bombs and that doesn't rack up damage fast.
One quick second from Snake's Utilt or Uair could even out your hard earned damage of 20 seconds of raining down bombs.
MY MATCH CONCLUSION
30/70
FINAL WORDS
Now, by all means I could be wrong. I don't want to discourage people from playing this match up because through trial and error someone may find a way. However, my experiences as gotten me to this theory.
Also, let me add that I do not have trouble as TL against players who do not have "high level" Snake tactics. Nowadays I do have even/favorable matches against high level Snake play. But just not as TL.
Comments? Thoughts? Discussion time!
NEXT!
I'll post an in-depth look at TL vs Pit!
To my surprise, this match up still goes even up to this day. I didn't really post much about this match before because I figured the board as a whole will come to the same conclusion I have. Snake counters TL.
I want to point out some properties of each character to help explain my conclusion.
MY EXPERIENCE WITH SNAKES
I play two good Snake players regular. One has a very projectile game including a very good cooking game and somehow works aerials better than I think Snake can. Works the ground good too. He does main Snake have placed tournaments though recently he's been to busy.
The other is a more well rounded Snake exploiting each of Snakes good aspect to a good degree. He mains Pit, but in certain match ups he will go Snake because it's "easier" or more advantageous. I was to first to suffer this strategy when he surprise me when he counter picked Snake against me in a tournament. What a jerk! :D He also placed tournaments.
I have lost to NC's Ali in tournaments a few times as TL. He plays more of a campy Snake. That's the extent of my campy Snake experiences. Another placer.
GENERAL FLOW OF MATCHES
Snake does much higher damage per hit and hits harder. TL has to work much harder to rack up damage in order to KO Snake and already have natural difficulty KOing in general. On the other hand, Snake can rack up damage with far less hits and have safer and more effective kill moves and can kill TL as 1/3 less that what TL needs to kill Snake.
CLOSE RANGE
Snake's Jabs, Ftilt, and Utilt versus TL's Jabs, Bair, and Nair. What else can I say. TL is at a bad end of the damage ratio here.
Combo-wise, TL can rack up 40-50% damage on Snake to begin with given the bad DI. But after that 40-50%, is there a reliable and effective way to build up damage while avoiding damage yourself? Not so much.
MID RANGE & REACH
At this range you are in Snake's Ftilt, QDA, or DAC's range. Reverse it. Snake is in TL's projectile range, but requires a bit more time to come out or set up. Starting off with a Zair or a surprise Dash Nair is really your move reliable options. Here you're still at a worst damage ratio here and now add quickness of reach.
Nintendo also added that crappy property on dashes where you can catch items so Snake players have to option to QDA or DAC and catch the bombs by chance. If you have a bomb in hand, and you throw them Snake may catch it and connect the dash attack. If they mistimed it than the explosion may occur and it will do damage to both players. If you don't throw it and defend, Snake's dash attack has fairly good recovery making hard for you to punish. This gives Snake players a low risk, yet high return during this situation.
LONG DISTANCE & SPAMMING
Have you guys notice getting hit by Snakes grenade does as much damage as TL's arrows? No, I don't mean having an explosion appear in front of your face Just plain getting hit smack dab in the face with a grenade.
From a far, Snake can pull out a grenade and toss it further and faster than TL send an arrow. TL bombs have more of a mid range reach. You can "see" TL projectiles coming at you easily. Now if it was cooked it would even be more damage.
AERIAL GAME
This is TL's only real advantage. He's faster, more agile, and take it to the air faster. But honestly the only real safe bet is to rain down bombs and that doesn't rack up damage fast.
One quick second from Snake's Utilt or Uair could even out your hard earned damage of 20 seconds of raining down bombs.
MY MATCH CONCLUSION
30/70
FINAL WORDS
Now, by all means I could be wrong. I don't want to discourage people from playing this match up because through trial and error someone may find a way. However, my experiences as gotten me to this theory.
Also, let me add that I do not have trouble as TL against players who do not have "high level" Snake tactics. Nowadays I do have even/favorable matches against high level Snake play. But just not as TL.
Comments? Thoughts? Discussion time!
NEXT!
I'll post an in-depth look at TL vs Pit!