The Forbidden Language: Using Quick Draw for Recovery

[HeroMystic]

First things first: Hear me out. Don't randomly walk in telling me you're an idiot, because if you do that then you're missing the entire point.

As we all know, Ike's recovery is... easily manipulated. It's too sequenced (save second jump, air dodge incoming attack, get below stage, aether), and once that sequence is broken, Ike is gone, easily gimp killed.

I've come to the realization that only using Aether for recovery has always been a bad idea, and there are times when QD is in fact a good... or even better... option than Aether.

Exactly why we should use QD to recover? Well for one, despite it being quite gimpable, it travels a large amount of distance, protects Ike from the front, sweetspots the ledge, and can even put him back on the stage without the lag from Aether. More importantly however, it mixes up our recovery methods.

When QD is a viable option for recovery
-When the opponent is spamming projectiles. QD will allow a horizontal boost forward while ramming into a projectile, which makes recovery easier.
-When you're high above the stage. Unless you're fighting someone like MK or Jigglypuff (who wouldn't let you on the stage anyways) there's not much risk for doing a half-charge and attempting to land on the stage.
-When your opponent is off the stage out to get you. Either way, if you get hit, you're not making it back. So when you dodge/counter the attack, you can use QD to quickly make it back to the stage. I know I have to do this sometimes against my Marth friend because he'll always sweetspot the ledge before I do with Aether.
-When your opponent is nowhere near the edge. It's relatively safe, and there's no risk to even doing a full-powered QD and quickly making it back to the stage. Whereas with Aether it's quite slow and allows your opponent to come back and edgeguard you.
-When you're already close to the ledge. A instant-QD allows you to get to the stage quicker than Aether does.

This is all I could think up right now. I'm sure others can think of more. I'm not saying QD is good for recovery, but Ike's recovery in general is just horrible. We don't need to be limiting our recovery options when it's already bad. We should be facing the problem and finding ways around it.

[Guilhe]

I’ve totally agree with you. Consider the tornado gimp, if the Luigi has already positioned himself under the stage when you’re recovering, there is no way the Aether SA frames will kick in before he can hit you. But, if you simply QD to the ledge, you’ll be in a favorable position to edge guard Luigi when he is coming back.

[MysticKenji]

When QD is a viable option for recovery
-When the opponent is spamming projectiles. QD will allow a horizontal boost forward while ramming into a projectile, which makes recovery easier.
There are some exceptions to this like Olimar's pikmin, PK Fire and iirc Waddle Dees, where QD's attack is activated on the hitting the projectile and you fall and die.

But otherwise, nice.

[Hinoarashi]

Yeah I agree with you, I skimmed this so I may have missed this, but you gotta watch out for QD Gimping, when they jump out and hit your QD so you fall in a free state to death, just gotta put that into consideration. Otherwise, I like the topic, and I do agree with you that Aether isn't at times, and most of the time.

[Gnace]

Nice. Most people don't even want to talk about recovering with QD. But you are right, it has his situations

[Nidtendofreak]

Why could of Quick Draw be like how it is in FE9? It's suppose to go THROUGH people, not stop in front of them. >_<

Now that I actually think about it, if the opponent is spamming projectiles from a distance, I think it would be truly better to QD first. QD, get hit, DJ, QD, get hit, Aether. If you tried to just fall and then Aether, chances are you will get knocked back too far. Especially if it's a Falco who keeps shooting his lasers.

The last two should have been common sense. It's faster then Aether. If the opponent is nowhere near by or is unable to grab the ledge before you QD it, use the QD.

[HeroMystic]

I'm glad the replies so far have been pretty helpful.

I'll give an update sometime later, seeing when to -not- use QD to recover.

[Kimchi]

I know this may seem improbable, but I've once hit my opponent who was hanging on the ledge with QD, and I managed to grab on.

[MysticKenji]

I know this may seem improbable, but I've once hit my opponent who was hanging on the ledge with QD, and I managed to grab on.
I'm pretty sure this always works unless the opponent times the invincibility frames properly.

[Arturito_Burrito]

you're an idiot.





IMO you have to be smart when recovering with QD and you can't teach people to be smart.

[PrepareYourself]

you're an idiot.

No, you're an idiot. >_>

Don't highlight here. > I agree, you cant teach them.

Would a smart situation be, say, the opponent is off of the other side of the stage trying to recover as well? You'd suffer less lag, right?

[XACE-K]

Would a smart situation be, say, the opponent is off of the other side of the stage trying to recover as well? You'd suffer less lag, right?


When QD is a viable option for recovery
-When your opponent is nowhere near the edge. It's relatively safe, and there's no risk to even doing a full-powered QD and quickly making it back to the stage. Whereas with Aether it's quite slow and allows your opponent to come back and edgeguard you.

There's your answer.

And the reasons you listed are Hero the only times when you can use QD to recover. Every time else you should use Aether to recover.

[Kinzer]

I'm not sure if ramming yourself into a projectile would be a good idea... consider Lucario's AS, if that s*** doesn't outright kill you, it will probably put you back onto square one with QD recovery, if not put you in a more unfavorable situation.

Maybe with the weak projectiles like Falco's lazers, I could see that working very nicely.

[Royta]

Completely shutting out an attack is never a situation in a game, every attack has its moments of usefullness. You just have to find it, as is the attack Quick Draw.

Aether gets predictable very fast, and like you said, picking a right time to switch it up with a QD helps out a lot. I personally prefer it over Aether against a metaknight and some other people with high Gimp-powerlevels. Just QD over them and PRAY that you don't hit anything ;p

It's a high reward high risk ability imo, as in usage of defensive and offensive powers. Allows for high pressure play and such, but I won't go further in on that, since this is mainly about recovery ;p

But as you pointed out, those are the options for recovery, and they are in small numbers.
What should be noted is that QD is also a prefered recovery against counter happy edge guarders, if they just stand there waiting for your Aether with their counter etc. you might wanna QD to the edge (since it snaps you to the legde, while Aether finishes the entire animation).

I usually prefer Aether though, but QD certainly has its moments. We just have to find more uses for it and make it more baseline ^^

Good topic btw, cheers!

[comboking]

Why could of Quick Draw be like how it is in FE9? It's suppose to go THROUGH people, not stop in front of them. >_<

Now that I actually think about it, if the opponent is spamming projectiles from a distance, I think it would be truly better to QD first. QD, get hit, DJ, QD, get hit, Aether. If you tried to just fall and then Aether, chances are you will get knocked back too far. Especially if it's a Falco who keeps shooting his lasers.

The last two should have been common sense. It's faster then Aether. If the opponent is nowhere near by or is unable to grab the ledge before you QD it, use the QD. Can't you SDI during the frames in which you are hit by the lazer?! (correct me if i'm wrong)

Also say you have 2 lives left and your opponent has 1 and 150% damage on him. Can't we just when he tries to jump out and kill us. Can we just purposely use QD and kill him? very sitsuational (correct me if i'm wrong)

[YagamiLight]

May I add that a ledge sweetspotted Quick Draw has a hitbox above the edge? Good for some quick damage if you're fast enough.

But AB is right, you can't teach people to be intelligent. But then again it's ridiculously easy to discern intelligent Ike players from the non-intelligent ones.

[Palpi]

Fox and Dedede are two examples of the extreme ways to gimp ike. It is so annoying. QD can work but make sure he is still on the edge not trying to hit you with an aerial. Grab the ledge and your fine! (hopefully)

[Kimchi]

So no one believes what I said?

[Kinzer]

What was it you said?

[Kimchi]

I know this may seem improbable, but I've once hit my opponent who was hanging on the ledge with QD, and I managed to grab on.
This is what I said before.

[Kinzer]

Ah yeah, that's doable.

Sorry, I must've skimmed through that or something.

As long as they don't have invincibility frames, Quickdraw will knock opponents away, and you will snap onto the ledge (I think).

[Kimchi]

So was AB calling me an idiot or the person who posted beneath me?

[Kinzer]

I dunno, for all I know (or for all that could really matter), is that Burrito hates everybody, and/or is never serious.

[HeroMystic]

He was mocking my first sentence in the OP. He's just teasing.

[Arturito_Burrito]

yah just teasing *shifty eyes*

[Royta]

*bumps topic*
this shouldn't die, Quickdraw needs more love ;(

[Alus]

*bumps topic*
this shouldn't die, Quickdraw needs more love ;(

wrong....

it needs less lag.

[Ussi]

It needs to go farther, through people, and faster.

[Arturito_Burrito]

this thread really does need to die the only way to recover with QD is if your not stupid.

[CloudRain]

ok so lets talk about using it for attacks, wat is the best point at using it? if it connects its awsome

[Nidtendofreak]

ok so lets talk about using it for attacks, wat is the best point at using it? if it connects its awsome

It's terrible if it connects.

[Rykoshet]

As an attack it's not worth it honestly, it's best uses are a tech chase and to get someone out of your face, but once people catch on all they do is sit there and spot dodge for a year and a day so you can risk to hit them out of it but if you don't say hello to a kill shot.

[Palpi]

I agree. Like many of Ike's move, it is also situation in both aspects, recovery and attack.

[Berserker_Cross]

ok so lets talk about using it for attacks, wat is the best point at using it? if it connects its awsome

It's not that awesome as an attack option. Doesn't do sufficient damage and can only kill when the opponent is at higher percent damage and if you charge QD and by some miracle it connects; but what are the odds of the conditions being met? And if you do go for it and get blocked, then you're open to be punished. You have better attack options than, so why consider it?

Also, the little stance Ike does when preparing for QD makes it a bit obvious. And it proves to be less useful if you're using it on stages like battlefield since the opponent always have the option of platform camping.

Also it's a bad idea to get directly into the opponent's face IMO unless you're going to go for a grab or jab. I rather just keep myself at a safe distance while being within my own attack range.

[blu link]

Man, is this move risky. I've been playing Ike for awhile and I have to say, QD is one crazy move. It's sideways thrusting property is helpful for recovery (no kidding) but it's easily gimped. It's like PK2. Jump in front of it and airdodge and it comes short. I like the idea of a second recovery (Link main >_>) but I've been gimped a lot by projectiles falling short of me. Ike just decides to slash at it.

Well, that's my two cents. :P