Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

[Hyro]

CP Spear Pillar.

Palkia and Dialga are Ubers, they'd sweep those lame UUs and NUs PT uses in no time.

Cresselia can just Boomerang-Cancel them.

Ever wanted a hugeass boomerang with tons of smack and attitude?

C R E S S E L I A

SPEAR PILLARZ IS WIN

lmao!

Anways, how bad would it be if I printed out the first post, took it to tourneys and used it in between matches on my oponent? :lick::lick::lick:

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Not at all.
Thats what its for. ;P

[Bomber7]

Okay, I played one of my friends today. We played a couple of sets, and his Pokemon trainer has trouble on Pirate ship, Lylat cruise, FD

Lylat and FD mainly cause they have to have pin point accuracy with there recoveries or they die, and its really hard on Lylat due to the stage moving

pirate cause if the ivysaur tethers to far from the stage...... they die
and it gives us a way of spiking without any real risks (except charizard can spike you)

Ban Luigi's mansion due to the fact that we cant camp as well as we need to in this match up.
That's all I got :)

the only thing I found that PT is good for at Pirate ship is when any of them are on the king of red lions: Squirt has the f tilt lock, Ivy can neutral A lock(i think) can charz can flame thrower spam lock. otherwise Pirate ship may not be the best for PT.

[NeoCrono]

would you say that Lylat and FD are solid CP's bomber?

[Bomber7]

yes, yes I would. I hate lylat cuz it screws me over when I play as TL or PT. FD could go anyones way, its just because that you can get cause under the ledge is why people consider it a counter pick and you wont many PT's that actually even come close to coming under the stage.

[Hyro]

Where's Soup when you need him? He's a TL/PT and his PT is nuuuuts.

[chaos11011]

soup is awsome and he is in the same clan as you right

fatalfive?

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Okay... >_<
Thats done. Thanks guys.



R.O.B. is next.

[Mothim]

Ban FD. Lasers, dairs, and dreidels (oh my) will kill us if we're over the edge and ROB isn't. It's just to easy for him to get us there when he can out-camp us from a long range (dunno bout mid-ranged though).
Also ban Frigate because you can't grab one of those ledges which makes it that much easier for him to gimp you.

CP... uhhh. . . Rainbow Cruise because. . . uhhhhhhhh. . . oh! Because his dreidel won't have as much effect especially because of the more vertically oriented stage. Also the constantly moving stage gives you more chances to recover.

[chaos11011]

Ban FD. Lasers, dairs, and dreidels (oh my) will kill us if we're over the edge and ROB isn't. It's just to easy for him to get us there when he can out-camp us from a long range (dunno bout mid-ranged though).
Also ban Frigate because you can't grab one of those ledges which makes it that much easier for him to gimp you.

CP... uhhh. . . Rainbow Cruise because. . . uhhhhhhhh. . . oh! Because his dreidel won't have as much effect especially because of the more vertically oriented stage. Also the constantly moving stage gives you more chances to recover.

FIRST RULE OF TL F**OTRY YOU MUST RECOVER

lol

yeah i go with the cruise Much more chances to recover

[toasty]

TL's favor: anywhere that gives him easy access to ROB's underside because that's his absolute weakest point...esp since TL has good vertical KO moves. Norfair is good, if it's legal. Yoshi's is better than most standard 3 platform levels because the single platform limits options considerably if ROB is stuck up there.

I wonder if Japes is any good for TL...no clue really [against ROB anyway]

ROB's favor:
FD/Smashville/Battlefield [that's a personal favorite of mine so I could be wrong] and anything big where he can run away and camp you.

[TLMSheikant]

CP stages where it is easier to camp him in mid range and like toasty said robs biggest weakness is his underside, so try to go with stages that make u get under him easier. For example norfair, battlefield and any other places with platforms.

I personally like pirate ship in this matchup. And cp rainbow cruise is kinda a suicide for tink in this matchup. We have a somewhat mediocre recovery and I really dont get where u 2 r getting at when u say that we have more options in RC when it comes to recovering. If anything, it actually hinders our recovery and helps rob with gimping.

[Mothim]

TL's favor: anywhere that gives him easy access to ROB's underside because that's his absolute weakest point...esp since TL has good vertical KO moves. Norfair is good, if it's legal. Yoshi's is better than most standard 3 platform levels because the single platform limits options considerably if ROB is stuck up there.

I wonder if Japes is any good for TL...no clue really [against ROB anyway]

ROB's favor:
FD/Smashville/Battlefield [that's a personal favorite of mine so I could be wrong] and anything big where he can run away and camp you.

No, I think BF is our favor. Like you said, ROB's most vulnerable from below. Platforms help with that. Also we can get in close where you can't camp us on BF.

I also think that Yoshi's (Melee) works for us for most of the same reasons and because we can projectile (hell yeah! now it's a verb) as well as you can there.

CP stages where it is easier to camp him in mid range and like toasty said robs biggest weakness is his underside, so try to go with stages that make u get under him easier. For example norfair, battlefield and any other places with platforms.

I personally like pirate ship in this matchup. And cp rainbow cruise is kinda a suicide for tink in this matchup. We have a somewhat mediocre recovery and I really dont get where u 2 r getting at when u say that we have more options in RC when it comes to recovering. If anything, it actually hinders our recovery and helps rob with gimping.

The stage is moving so when we get stuck in a spot where ROB might normally be able to gimp us, some new piece of land might pop up. A little weak, I know, but please don't attack it because it does make sense, it's just difficult for me to explain.

[TLMSheikant]

Yoshis melee is so banned moth. Anywhere with a respectable tourney organizer has it banned.

[Mothim]

What? Why?
IMO it shouldn't be >_>

[TLMSheikant]

The stage is just too broken. The pipes are way too close to the blast line and the vertical one is very close too. The stage is small with no breathing room and then there's those blocks down there >_>. Our dsmash owns there btw too bad it'll never be a cp stage ....

[Mothim]

Well... that sucks. Why do people always refer to the new Yoshi's Island as "Yoshi's (brawl)" if the Melee one
isn't allowed anyways?

Fine then............ Lylat ._.

[NeoCrono]

Ban Norfair
When I use R.O.B, I will counter with it cause the top allows me to control a platform
and he can out camp you there.

[Mothim]

But you can only have one dreidel out at one time right? Which means, at most, you can only control 2/3 of a side. That leaves too much room for the opponent, especially TL, to get around you and use projectiles from a distance until the dreidel dies.

[NeoCrono]

But you can only have one dreidel out at one time right? Which means, at most, you can only control 2/3 of a side. That leaves too much room for the opponent, especially TL, to get around you and use projectiles from a distance until the dreidel dies.

TL projectiles don't go fast which gives me time too just perfect shield them, and the laser comes out faster and I can be more accurate with it, if you try and go around the top, I can fly over you and keep you chasing me.

[Mothim]

we can grab the dreidel too ya know.

[NeoCrono]

Yep :)
but you have to slow it down by hitting it
and if you go to hit it and i see that you are going to try and slow it down, I get get you in something called the pain chamber
A grab release that you cant get out of until the top stops, and can lead to pain chamber F-smash or tilt

[East]

Norfair is an interesting choice for both players because it plays to both their strengths [or at least enough to matter]. R.O.B.'s use of projectiles allows him to control some space, and with decent mindgames with the gyro can get off a few well aimed full charged or just plain lasers as well. R.O.B.'s recovery is arguably one of the best in the game, which combined with the lava make gimping him nigh impossible.

But let's not forget about TL's advantages. A plethora of projectiles allows him control multiple spaces at one [more than likely more than R.O.B.] Clever use of bombs, boomerangs, and arrows [and even the slightest use of R.O.B's on gyro against him] can definitely turn the tide in his favor. Mindgames with bombs coupled with smashes [Up Smash preferably, and even fresh up tilts] should be quite a problem for R.O.B. that being said, R.O.B.'s weak points are behind him and below him. Norfair just so happens to promote situations where unless R.O.B. is lower than his opponent, he may have a problem with living. Then there is the tether grab for TL. Character's with tether's usually do fairly well on Norfair [for whatever reason]

The "pain chamber" is a very situational grab scenario, but does set up F-Smash kills for R.O.B. Unfortunately R.O.B. would have to span a large part of the level to get to an opponent at the spot to set up the grab release. Unfortunately, I'm not well versed on TL's weaknesses [He's light? I guess.] but the way I see it, This stage really only seems to be in TL's favor slightly, if not even for both characters.

But really, what could this Sheik main know about either of these other characters? : x Well I'm off to dawdle back off to my part of the board. I'll check back here soon. Good luck with the discussion!

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Kayz doneeee.
Thank you R.O.B. mains! =)

Sorry for taking so long. >_<;;



Samus is next.

[Hyro]

Kayz doneeee.
Thank you R.O.B. mains! =)

Sorry for taking so long. >_<;;



Samus is next.

I CAN HELP A LOT HERE. :bee:

Never. EVER pick Battlefield. No matter how good you are, you will get 3 stocked. Also, lose the first match on purpose so they don't counterpick Battlefield. Oh, and Battlefield is picked, reset the match and try to convince your opponent battlefield was banned for this tournament.

Their bombs are too good here. Their zairs are too good here. Their uair is to rape here. There UP B CAN NOT AND WILL NOT BE PUNISHED ON THIS STAGE! If they miss an up B, they will land on the top platform with little lag and punish you for attempting to punish them. They'll zair you through the stage from the ledge. They'll do crazy wall jumps out of nowhere. You will get raped.

Pick Final Destination. You need as little platforms as possible for Samus that way her ridiculous autocancelling aerials won't be as hard. Always keep the spam up to stop her from charging her beam and missle canceling. If she gets a missle off, your in trouble because them things have some serious rapid fire. As long as you can predict zairs (which should be easy since you're a zairer...er) you should be good at approaching Samus's.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Bump???

._.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

omg bump.

POST GUYS.
T_T

[Asdioh the Fox Main]

Go to Brinstar.

Really, just do it. Samus will be like "I have homefield advantage!" and she'll try to spike you, but the lava/acid/whatever will save you.

Except when you spike her, the lava/acid/whatever won't save her.

Also, I don't know what else. It's just...what I would do...

*wonders if there will be any Samus mains at the tourney this weekend*
*probably not*

[Ravin]

Asdioh is prrrreeetttttyyyy gay.

I will throw some input in when im not so filled into GoW2 and WZ2100 ;D

[Xyro77]

As ive said LONG agao, samus may be able to spam faster than TL but TL spam BETTER(creates more options). Knowing this, a TL needs to pick a level that can take advantage of HIS projectiles while hurting samus's...


JUNGLE JAPES.


Before you go "WTF ARE YOU THINKING" please consider the following.

1. Samus CANNOT Z-air freely on the stage(we MUST stay in the middle). Our zair AUTO locks onto the right and left platforms which means our MAIN anti air move is now worth less......by picking jungle japes you just wiped out 1/3 of our spam game while you have lost none.

2. Samus generally kills with D-tilts and D-smash and f-smash( but f-smash is almost always stale). 2 of those moves kill upwards(D-smash/tilt). Well japes has a MASSIVE ceiling, correct? Hmm well now our KO moves wont kill till like 150-180%. Congrats, you have just eliminated 2 out of 3 KO moves we have. I know TL may have a prob killing but i assure you, TL will kill faster on this stage than samus will.




Now for stages to BAN against samus. Ive played hyrulian royalty and santi and jerm. I LOVE FD! Like i said befor ei can spam faster than too link can. WHoever gets the walls of projectiles going FIRST and the LONGEST will generally end up winning. So i recommend banning FD. Other than that, you MAY want to ban BF(unless you like it) cause we can do alot of UP+B oos and cancel the falling lag on the platforms befor you can react.


just some things i recommend.

[Ravin]

You want to CP JJ or something that gives Samus very little space. Do not be afraid of platforms I encourage to use them on Samus considering a major weakpoint is if she is above you, her weak roll and float is terrible when attempting to drop from platforms.

CP JJ is great, I recommend banning BF or FD. Considering these are her two strongest stages.
Most input from Xyro is on the money.

I play on JJ a lot, another good CP to go with is Luigi's mansion. This also eliminates her kill moves and gives you a free shield, considering you have much better close combat then she does. (Just avoid Jab locks, but you can do the same to her right? )

[Mothim]

I think I'm gonna stay mostly out of this one but I'll put some chips in the pot anyway...

Rainbow Cruise.
I had a reason but I think I forgot it. Oh wait. I remember but it's difficult to explain. I'll let you guys argue it out.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

That doesn't help at all Smoth. ._.

[Santi]

Xyro, I never thought of Japes. THANK YOU :)

[Hyro]

Wow, Japes WOULD rape samus, her zair being too long is finally bad lol

Luigi's mansion? I don't agree, she would *** lock you and toon link cannot jab lock back. Also it would stop our spam.

As for FD, sure it's honestly how comfortable you feel in your spam. Xyro's right, whoever gets the first wall up will be in control that stock, so if you feel you can do it, FD is the place to go, if not, I guess we go Japes!

[Ravin]

<__<....

JJ and Luigi Manison have the highest Ceilings, Killing her already limited kill moves.

ONTOP of that the edges are sloped, prevent her ledge camping and attempted Zair threw stage tricks.

This also kicks in the fact the shield will help you as well as her, forcing close combat which Tink wins.

Her grab is punishable as it is. Samus won't typically grab unless you get hit by an uncharged shot or homing missile to setup a stun or if you attempt to downdodge it. but the pillars are there. The only solid thing to work on would be to powershield the Zair's. So you have a handful of bad things and one pro for Samus on that stage, maybe the platforms. IF that.

Any questions?

If you wanted to get technical, JJ only limits the use of her Zairs, THIS does not prevent her camping as well as under stage trucks and multiple ledges to preform aerials faster and give invisibility frames. JJ might rape Samus Zair, but gives her time to still use projectiles and camp.

Take your pick.

[Xyro77]

Xyro, I never thought of Japes. THANK YOU :)

Wow, Japes WOULD rape samus, her zair being too long is finally bad lol

Luigi's mansion? I don't agree, she would *** lock you and toon link cannot jab lock back. Also it would stop our spam.

As for FD, sure it's honestly how comfortable you feel in your spam. Xyro's right, whoever gets the first wall up will be in control that stock, so if you feel you can do it, FD is the place to go, if not, I guess we go Japes!


you guys are welcome!!!!!! as for LM, dont use it on samus. it hurts both characters. plus, the last thing you want is samus hitting the bottom polls to refresh her charge shot or D-tilt.

if you need anything else, PM me

[Lobos]

Isn't japes a bad stage for TL???

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

I love Japes.
Spamming is easy and spiking is easy.

I wouldn't really say its bad, unless you're in the corners where you can't Zair.

[ZeroXMachine]

I'm gonna have to say the LM is probably my least favorite (pickable) stage. Toon Link is relatively limited in his killing options as well, so I think the stage negatively affects both characters. JJ is fairly neutral, but the fact that Samus' zair is slightly more affected puts it in favor in TL ever so slightly.

What about Rainbow cruise? I (think) TL has superior mobility and his boomerangs and bombs can be fired from different angles as opposed to Samus' relatively linear projectiles.. Can Samus' air game match TL's?

Ravin, let's play sometime.