Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

[chaos11011]

So we should Cp FD,Corenia,and Halbird

[TLMSheikant]

Sounds good Illinialex :). Thanks for ur help.

[illinialex24]

Sounds good Illinialex :). Thanks for ur help.

Your welcome. And yeah, Corneria's the best but then Halberd and FD are the next best. And ban Jungle Japes or Luigi's Mansion, either is your choice.

[chaos11011]

K thanks illinialex so once sasuke see this we can move on to king DDD

[Glick]

Basically if you want to beat a jigglypuff, or having trouble, just spam more. Honestly. We may be able to block off arrows and boomerangs with our little feet, but we are bound to mess up sometime. Just watch for pound and save your upsmash.

Basically camp and spam.

[Maniclysane]

Don't use fsmash, lawl. Spam your arrows. Save usmash to kill. Bair spam us to piss us off if you really hate us. The second we start chaining anything on you pull out a bomb, but don't throw it. It's so easy to pick up in mid air.

It's 60:40 your advantage. Just ban jungle japes.

[PrepareYourself]

What! I told you to make the counterpicks blue. You no u'ed me

1. Copypaste first post (with BB code included)
2. Open Word
3. Paste into Word
4. Ctrl+F
5. Click "Replace" tab
6. In "Find what" enter [COLOR="Lime"]
7. In "Replace with" enter [COLOR="Blue"]
8. Press "Replace all"
9. Ctrl+A
10. Ctrl+C
11. Go back to the post
12. In edit box, Ctrl+V
13. ????
14. PROFIT

And sorry to say that I don't know much about the Jigglypuff matchup.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Thanks Jiggz mains. Tons of good info. <3



Penguin.
Go.

[CRASHiC]

Dededee can get a wall chain grab on the Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2, should the right stage appear. The ice on pokemon stadium 2 also helps his chain grab. I'd consider banning those. As for counterpicks, I'd choose Jungle Japes (Melee) to cut short our chain grab and up your spike.

[Gates]

If the chaingrab is the only thing you're worried about, pick Norfair.

If you realize that Dedede is more than just the Z button, Jungle Japes seems like a good counterpick because of its high ceiling. Battlefield is Dedede's worst neutral in this matchup.

I typically take people I can chaingrab to either Halberd or Pokemon Stadium. Failing that I'd go to Final.

[qwertyman]

Just ban Final Destination. Otherwise every time we grab you, you'll take like 20-70%, depending on how close you are to the side. Dedede has no trouble on any stage, basically.
I don't know Toon Link very well, but I can tell you what I don't like to play on. Distant Planet is weird for me. Your Bair spam should be not fun there. If you're well practiced on Norfair, that's good too. Anything that makes our chaingrab weaker is good. Jungle Japes actually sounds great for you as well.
Again, Dedede is happy to play on any stage.

[DonkeyKongUh]

OK here are stages i would use in order of awesomeness for d3 and why

Delfino = wall infinites and cgs off the side. Also flying under platform.

weegees mansion = blocks tl's projectiles minimising camping

Castle siege = see delfino but this isn't quite as awesome

Ps1 = sameeeeeee

Delfino should totally be a ban... The others its up to you.

OOh and japes isn't that great of a choice... D3's bthrow can stage spike if he's on the left edge of the middle platform, and he can also live thru dddcide...

On the other hand tl can camp well here... idk

I think ur best off with BF or LYAT. Both of those don't have much room for cgs and d3 sux with platforms... If you can get used to slanting and control the stage with your projectiles tl can be and uber pain.

[PrepareYourself]

Ban Corneria.

[iRjOn]

CP
Lylat, BF, Frigate, or Rainbow Criuse.

Ban
Corniera, FD, Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd, or Smashville

[TLMSheikant]

CP- Norfair, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise

Ban- Final Destination, Pkmn Stadium 1, Halberd

[DonkeyKongUh]

guys ya gotta ban any stage with a walk off edge... as well as d3 does on fd ur screwed if they cp delfino...

Um if you spam bombs enough its hard for them to cg.

[iRjOn]

guys ya gotta ban any stage with a walk off edge... as well as d3 does on fd ur screwed if they cp delfino...

Um if you spam bombs enough its hard for them to cg.
True Delfino is a ban stage too

[GodMeowMix]

A good DDD will enjoy FD because most projectiles are straight forward and they can just powershield their way to approaching you and once you're in the air you pretty much made DDD king of FD giving them a good chance at grabbing you. Delfino would be the next choice too, if a DDD picks that stage you should have the right to just run away and camp until it changes again once it gets to the walk of part of the stage, you also have a bit of priority in running away since there are steep.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

DDDs done. Thank you D3 mains.


Kirby is next.
inb4Asdioh

[Asdioh the Fox Main]

Lessee. Against Toon Link, I'm thinking I would ban Halberd. Honestly, this feels to me like a matchup where the stage doesn't matter that much.

Actually I wouldn't ban Halberd, I'd ban Battlefield because I hate it, and because TL is good there.

For a neutral, I'd take him to Smashville probably. I'd take him to Yoshi's Island just because I know about the dsmash glitch and I might be able to get hit by that, and then mindgame him into getting Daired and footstooled when he chases me offstage.

If Lylat's a neutral, you might want to take him there, but I personally hate that stage too and it could go either way. If Pokemon Stadium (Melee) is neutral, that would be my top choice, but from my experiences it's usually not a neutral...


For counterpicks... Brinstar is my favorite, but I don't think it works too well against Toon Link for some reason. *thinks about sasukebowsermetapod bouncing off the things on Brinstar with Dair*

Delfino is bad for Kirby in this match, definitely. Norfair is ok for either one, probably better for TL but it's all a matter of preference.

Ok so now that you've seen my odd train of thought:

From Kirby's perspective against Toon Link:

Ban: Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Corneria?

Choose: Frigate Orpheon, possibly Rainbow Cruise

[TLMSheikant]

I honestly didnt understand ur post asdioh. Since U change perspective way too much in the paragraph.
I say Delfino is the best stage for TL. Followed by halberd. And I would ban rainbow cruise since kirby rules there.

[iRjOn]

TLM He said it straight from Kirbys persepctive lol

But on the real note
Ban
Lylat, Rainbow Cruise, and Yoshi Island (brawl)
CP...
FD ehh...Smashville
thats all I got atm

[Falconv1.0]

I am not as smart as I should be on stages, so I'll be general and say anything that gives you a nice spot to camp like a ***** and doesn't give Kirby lots of options (You better freaking ban Rainbow Cruise)

[chaos11011]

yeah ban rainbow cruise I lost a tourni cause of that stage.

[Asdioh the Fox Main]

I honestly didnt understand ur post asdioh. Since U change perspective way too much in the paragraph.
I say Delfino is the best stage for TL. Followed by halberd. And I would ban rainbow cruise since kirby rules there.

haha, genius can be hard to understand :P

No really, just look at the colored sections.

Toon Link might want to ban Rainbow Cruise or Frigate Orpheon.

Kirby might want to ban Delfino, Battlefield, or Halberd. Maybe even Corneria or Pirate Ship if they're legal. @_@

Really, Kirby doesn't have any "pick this stage and gain the advantage" choices in this matchup, imo.

[Halo99]

Not sure on what to ban tbh, however i like to see counter picking from a different angle. Why counter-pick a stage that gimps your opponents character, when you can improve your own?

For this, i nearly always counter pick Yoshi's Island (Melee).

It allows constant DAir spam due to the boxs, and if you FSmash (both hits) while on the bottom three boxs, it will auto cancel into a NAir/Fair. As the second hits slightly below Toony.

These moves, now almost lagless, improve Toony's game so much. Low ceiling helps as well (once the boxs are spinning) and the stage helps out by being tech heavy.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Because then we'd just pick that level against everyone.
And they'd ban it.

Its not like it can't help the other character too.

[iRjOn]

Low Ceilings against heavy hitters...
it hurts... bad
Even the close sides hurts Toon Link
Dont forget we are light.

Good thoughts tho.

[Halo99]

Because then we'd just pick that level against everyone.
And they'd ban it.

Its not like it can't help the other character too.

True on the ban front.

Low Ceilings against heavy hitters...
it hurts... bad
Even the close sides hurts Toon Link
Dont forget we are light.

Good thoughts tho.

Well, thats true, however i think the manuvrebility of toony means that he can keep away from those big hitters. Honestly, i CP this map every game (no tournies but we play pretty competativly) and although we don't ban maps, it definately would get banned if we did. I'm just saying this as it seems to be a great map for toons, but not necessarily a good CP for any character in particular.

On the case of Kirby:


Ban - Smashville, Rainbow Cruise
CP - FD, Green Greens, Corneria


In my opinion, we need a map big enough to stay away from kirby, as his range game is very poor however close blast zones to stop his amazing recovery.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Kirby's done.
It was sorta hard to do though. <_<


Links next.

[Mothim]

His sword is longer than ours but our arrows go farther (doesn't help as much as his sword TT___TT ) so something with a lot of room like Delfino. FD is probably a good neutral stage. He's heavy (I think) so something with lots of room on the sides, but not too much on top (I guess).

[Bomber7]

For Link:

Counter Pick: IMO any moving stage like Rumble Falls and then the angle changing ones like Lylat. Otherwise just about any stage would do.

Ban: Can you really ban a stage for a character with such poor recovery?

though for a 2 cents I'd say Luigi's mansion.

[Alzi]

This is helps me alot sasukebowser seriously i needed this since i'm going to a tourney this sunday.

[Lobos]

Did I mention how good this thread is?....

Anyways, Link one of my secondaries..... hmmm I would say ban nofair since its easy for link to recover CP any stage with short sides or low celing

[Silver Swordsman]

Against Link, you want to choose stages that take advantage of TL's mobility and disrupts camping (that hurts both characters, but TL can make up for it more so than Link). Rainbow Cruise fits the bill perfectly, but it's very likely to be banned by the Link. It's hard to say any other specific stages, since it's more of a preference what size you want for KO boundaries. I personally prefer Pokemon Stadium (Melee) and Yoshi's Island (Brawl) if Rainbow Cruise isn't allowed.

I would ban Corneria. Link could just wait in the lower part of the level for you to approach. The small part minimizes his need for speed, and gets the most out of his sword (and without an infinite against the wall, he has nothing to be afraid of). Otherwise there isn't much to worry about, Link doesn't have any exceptional stages that help him out vs TL.

Not sure on what to ban tbh, however i like to see counter picking from a different angle. Why counter-pick a stage that gimps your opponents character, when you can improve your own?

I did this for a while in tournies... and it worked...
until I came up against a G&W and foolishly CP'd Rainbow Cruise against this 2D killer. I'll never make that mistake again.

When choosing CP's it's good to know what you're best at, but if you don't consider what the other character is best at then it could come to haunt you. Frankly, some characters are just better at you at your own stages. Sometimes it's best to go neutral, or even to a stage you're bad at (only if they're even worse at it, of course). Remember, the point of CP'ing is to give you the best chance of winning.

You guys are lucky that you have all of these weird stages. Pirate Ship, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Norfair? These stages are all banned in NorCal :(

[Halo99]

I did this for a while in tournies... and it worked...
until I came up against a G&W and foolishly CP'd Rainbow Cruise against this 2D killer. I'll never make that mistake again.

When choosing CP's it's good to know what you're best at, but if you don't consider what the other character is best at then it could come to haunt you. Frankly, some characters are just better at you at your own stages. Sometimes it's best to go neutral, or even to a stage you're bad at (only if they're even worse at it, of course). Remember, the point of CP'ing is to give you the best chance of winning.

Very wise words. I suppose its all about taking the middle ground to get the best of both worlds.

You guys are lucky that you have all of these weird stages. Pirate Ship, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Norfair? These stages are all banned in NorCal :(

Silver Swordsman raises a good point here... what are the maps we are assuming to be banned automatically. Is it just the "Banned" tier from SBR-B stage discussion, because when i play others are banned auto too. I know most people will have different stage choices.

Just FYI, from the stage discussion thread

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

[WEMP]

i have a tourney sat and have had the luck ( bad or good ) to have never gone against any meta's. any quick counters you guys can think of? last tournie when i mentioned it hylian thought FD

any thoughts???

[TLMSheikant]

Against Link:
CP:
Rainbow cruise, Frigate orpheon

Ban:
???? I really dont have a clue. Perhaps norfair since he can recover easier there.

[Sasuke the Sheik Main]

Links done. <_<


Lucarios next.

[Barge]

Frigate is such a good Lucario stage.
.
.
.

And thats all I know.

I WISH I could help more. :(