neat lil killer i found dunno if anyone else has discovered this.

[Grimice]

I'm sure someone else has seen this or has done it but thought id mention it for those who may want to add this to there projectile game. i was messing around with projectiles and was playing with them during my edge game. I found that when you grab the ledge and jump ur invinvible frames only last for about 1 extra frame. so i played with my timing a bit.
if u poistion toon link just at that distance where a recovery attack cant hit you most people wether drop/jump and try to catch ya offguard or they press there jump button and do the full jump recovery. what u can do is when they grab the ledge, watch there recovery frames after 2 frames shoot ur bow and do a hyphen smash this is pretty much a garuntee kill past 110% whats awsome is once you got the timeing right your arrow will hit exactly when the last invis frame is used ,with the arrow stun the hyphen smash is easy as pie and will send your opponent flying to oblivion. I've tested this out, during some friendlies it worked about 80% of the time the only problem i had was my timeing with the arrow or i was to slow on my hyphen smash other then that soon as someone try'd to recover they got arrow stuned and a hyphen smash right to there face. try it out urself in training and practise the timing I'll try and upload a video so people can see what i mean if you dont understand.

[Grimice]

just a quick side note cause i found this hard to understand, what the arrow does is when they start to pull themselves off the ledge the arrow will stun them and knockthem back just out of the ledges reach this gives you the window to hyphen smash them.

[sasukebowser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wtvLVp73_E&feature=channel_page

0:28 ?

[Grimice]

nah sasuke here my explanation is a bit hard to understand and ill have to upload a video but ill put it in a scenario for ya if ur toon link and say wolf is at 116% and smash him off. Now you know when u grab a ledge u can press A or B and you will attack ur opponent while climbing back onto the stage? or if you press R you will do a jump from the edge onto the stage? when ur opponent is recovering especially if he press's R his invinsabilty frames only last for 1 extra frame. so if u position toonlink so hes far enough that if someone just recovers they cannot hit you by pressing A or B while holding onto the ledge and time it just right fire an arrow and quickly do a dash hyphen smash when the arrow hits it will stun then just infront of the ledge of the stage and the hyphen is a garunteed hit. If you still dont understand ill try and post a video tommorow

[iRjOn]

sounds kool

[TLMSheikant]

I understand and think it is good. But does it work if the opponent ledge attacks? I think they will have way too much invincibility to do this during a ledge attack.

[Jman115]

sounds cool but it also relies on the opponent getting back on the stage vie a, b, or R as you say. However, my opponents tend to hit down and then quickly hit jump so that they can recover without invincibility lag attack. Instead, as they are getting back on the stage they are performing an aerial. However, I think this may still be useful in that situation. Might not be able to pull off a hyphen smash, but I should be able to hit them with something. Timing is key. Will take a while but ill try and play around with it tonight.

[Grimice]

ya the hyphen smash takes some good timing i couldnt sleep so i spent a good 3 hours practiseing it, i found the best way to get the timing is to watch a cpu in training grab a ledge in slow motion and watch the frames then in normal speed try to time your arrow on the second frame. Now as for when people press A or B after they grab the ledge you should be positioned out of its reach so if they do this simply grab them and throw them back off or use the grab to start a Bair, Dair killer or another smash.

The best way to use this to your advantage is to mind game them chase them off the stage a couple times make them expect it, drop a bomb trap right near the ledge then get your positioning for my technique (Btw since no one has claimed this as already being discovered i wish to call this a "GriM arrow") That way your opponent hesitate's. Thats the best advice i can give to pull this off, gunna play with a friend tonight and try and pull this off against him. but when i practised this against a CPU everytime the arrow hit and i got the hyphen smash on lightwieghts around 100% it was a easy kill and they couldnt do nothing ot stop it on heavywieghts it worked around 130% heavy *******s lol.

[Grimice]

also jman as for ur concern about people who drop and jump to recover, thats when mindgames are needed to force them to ledgejump so you can use this technique. It's defenitly very hard to perform but when you do, do it. Your opponent is gunna wonder wtf just happened.

I'm sure the hardcore smashers will pick up the timing much quicker and be able to apply it to there edge guard game faster and be able to put there opponents in scenarios where they can use it.

[Shadow Moth]

What happens if they roll? Not only do they get more invis frames but they go pretty darn far when compared to a ledge attack. Also some characters have very long ledge-attacks. Does this affect that technique or should you just back up to compensate?

[toondiddy]

i understand sounds like a pretty solid killer, ill have to try it out.
try this thread next time please http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208562

[Jman115]

Im wondering if with the drop down jump recover if when you hit them with an arrow (they should be off stage) if you can just run and nair or fair them. If this works with nair, it would be a great gimp strategy.

[Grimice]

What happens if they roll? Not only do they get more invis frames but they go pretty darn far when compared to a ledge attack. Also some characters have very long ledge-attacks. Does this affect that technique or should you just back up to compensate?


Ya like i said before you gotta pretty much force them to jump off the ledge grab mind games seem to work i like to do a bomb cancel right near the ledge forceing them to avoid a ledge attack and if they just sit there either the bomb explodes and you can gimp them with a Nair or you can drop down after the bomb blows and use a Nair to smash them off the side of the stage.

Im wondering if with the drop down jump recover if when you hit them with an arrow (they should be off stage) if you can just run and nair or fair them. If this works with nair, it would be a great gimp strategy.

If you are lucky and u use a SHDA you can probably ketch them with one and when they flinch use the oppertunity to fair them setting up a great gimp.

[sasukebowser]

I'm still waiting for a vid.

[Grimice]

ya sorry ill have it made today for ya sasuke i gotta borrow my buddys video camra

[MDMA]

No video? Was looking forward seeing this in action.

[flareaga]

In a situation like this, is such a complicated tactic worth it?

-_-

Another thing to practice....