Ike vs Metaknight, and Ike's Metagame.

[Rubyiris]

I'm not blessed with professionals to play with, so what I say should not be taken with a grain of salt.

I find Metaknight to be one of Ike's easier matchups. Somewhere along the lines of the 65/45 70/30 area. Sure, Metaknight can easily gimp Ike, but everything else MK has is very easy to read/react to. His ground, and aerial game is cookie cutter. Depending on MK, and Ike's placing, it's easy to read what MK will do next. Ike has superior range, and despite what people say, Ike is not slow in the slightest, and if he was, it really wouldn't matter. Nearly all of MK's moves can be stuffed, out-ranged by all of Ike's aerials, and his F-tilt/F-Smash. Ike's Spot Dodge leads into jabs, which stuffs most of MK's approaches. His Counter, and a well-spaced F-Tilt/Smash stuffs everything else. Ike is also free to approach MK with Dash Attack, QuickDraw, Aerials, and occasionally a JC'd U-Smash. Pivoting a F-Smash works wonders against an unsuspecting opponent.

Ike's biggest problem; Olimar. Olimar is just one of those 80/20, 90/10 matchups that you can either;

1. Train extensively for.
2. Just hope it never happens.

Picmin stuff every option Ike has for the most part. His best options are F-Air, N-Air, Jabs, and Spot Dodging. Those are very limited options compared to what Olimar can do in this matchup.

I've watched videos of better players. I've played loads of games against every character. I've played against other Ikes with other characters, too. I feel that if people put the time into improving Ike's metagame, he will continue to rise.

[Royta]

Ike has potential, and a good Ike can be very dangerous.
Calling MK one of his easier matchups is a stretch, but Ike does have the tools to make MK's life a living hell.

But a good opponent with anti-ike knowledge will easily be able to tear him appart.

Oh and olimar, just grab a secondary main..since well Ike just does horrible against him. Same goes for Falco and King DDD.
You can use Ike, and winning is very do-able especially since you're probably playing your A-game while they go in overconfident. But even then, the ways they can gimp you and kill you early is just out of this world.
NEVER go to FD against any of these..

That's my 5 cents

[Rubyiris]

My problem with Olimar is that my secondary is Falco. <_<

[Palpi]

Well like many characters, Ike metagame is slowly coming to a halt. It is mainly a unique style of play that keeps Ike mid tier. (And his low% threat)

If metaknight get you off the ledge, you aren't coming back unless you are down a stock. I have played 5 pretty decent metaknights and I only got one down to 1 stock, because the shuttle loop destroys any horizontal recovery. (QD -.-')

And against metaknight, since MK can gimp so easily I like smashville on the slight chance h e gimps you on the side the floating platform is currently on.

Metaknight can get in 2 down smashes during ikes spot dodge. (I think) Nothing really out prioritizes metaknights attacks. Approaching ike with metaknight consists mainly of dash attacking then doing the 3 uairs to shuttle loop, or dash grab (very long unexpected range) pummel, dthrow to fair to shuttle loop (if you are not off the stage, does 33% damage) Also whorenado is often used against ike like any other character.

Ike vs metaknight isn't easy, it isn't hard, it is something really hard to over come because the character at gimping is against one of the easy character to get gimped.

[Rykoshet]

I honestly dont see how people think that, if properly played, meta knight does anything but rape the balls off of ike.

[Palpi]

I just think Metaknight has a lot more at his disposal than Ike can handle. Since Ike's air game game can out range MK's air game, metaknight will approach wih his tornado or with dash attack or dash grabs which can be punished but if the metaknight switches up his style, it would be hard for Ike.

Acording to the MK match-up thread, Ike can spot dodge MK's dtilt to jab combo and if lucky ftilt to jab combo. I think they said it works well with MK's easiest way of approaching, his Fair.

Improper spacing like any other match up well get you doomed in this match up, but obviously It is not guarenteed loss.

[Arturito_Burrito]

I'm not blessed with professionals to play with, so what I say should not be taken with a grain of salt.



bingo.

Seriously the match up is the other way around probably 60-40 to 70-30 MK's advantage. Only thing that Ike has in this match is range on a few moves and power. Power doesn't actually matter because MK will add 140% on you while you add 80%.


edit: palpi you fail. Ike will be the one approaching in this match because MK can just wait out the clock and then add 70% on you in the last 15 seconds.

[Palpi]

Well, though I didn't mean to, I pretty much said that Metaknight approaches on Ike were bad, "fair out ranging" ... "Spot dodge / shielding tilts" ... lol

And analyzing something doesn't always mean it is of practical use. :)

[Arturito_Burrito]

umm no MK approaches on Ike are great Ike can't really do anything to MK as he barely out ranges him and MK can move into his Fair range before he gets hit.

Fair out ranging is seriously a lame excuse for a match up not to rape Ike.

[Rubyiris]

I really wish I was blessed with professionals to play with. I firmly believe that Ike has more to this matchup than people are giving him credit for, however I don't have good enough players to really test with.

[Palpi]

I am not saying that Ike has an easy win or it is way over his head, I am just getting both sides of the match up.

When I played metaknights and actually did well it was all about fairing, retreating fairs and hoping your nair isn't shielded. When I got raped, it was always when I got punished on the approach, then into combos and possibly a gimp.

[Berserker_Cross]

I am not saying that Ike has an easy win or it is way over his head, I am just getting both sides of the match up.

When I played metaknights and actually did well it was all about fairing, retreating fairs and hoping your nair isn't shielded. When I got raped, it was always when I got punished on the approach, then into combos and possibly a gimp.

The thing is no-one can space correctly 100% of the time, and even still, there's more to consider such as Metaknight's ability to unleash the hurt on you if you mess up once on spacing/timing/etc. Not to mention obsticles on some stages may cause interference and force you into undesireable positions. And even if someone manages to play so precisely, chances are that they'll get screwed over with a simple trip, at least IMO

[Palpi]

Of course not. No one can have 100% perfect spacing especially against metaknight, but I am just saying from personal experience what I think works..or worked.

[Berserker_Cross]

Of course not. No one can have 100% perfect spacing especially against metaknight, but I am just saying from personal experience what I think works..or worked.

I know what you're saying, but it's also important not to make a definite assumption according to past experiences unless it's verifiable. There are many factors to take into consideration such as the opponent's play style, level, etc. What may have worked for you on Metaknights your level aren't guaranteed to work on higher leveled Metaknight players.

[Palpi]

That what match up threads are, analyzing the common use of the character. People play different ways but what commonly works or does not work in universal between characters.

[Arturito_Burrito]

well if you want to argue the match up take it to one of the stickies. In all 3 of them it would be on topic but this thread is just stupid, it was made by someone who admitted to not having experience and is just wishful theory crafting.

Just let it die already.

[Rubyiris]

well if you want to argue the match up take it to one of the stickies. In all 3 of them it would be on topic but this thread is just stupid, it was made by someone who admitted to not having experience and is just wishful theory crafting.

Just let it die already.

Or not, for the sake of discussion.

[Arturito_Burrito]

For the sake of discussion? That´s a stupid reason there are 3 stickies where this can be discussed it doesn´t need it´s own thread with nothing new to add.