Tech/Combo Test Needed

[Ryos4]

Okay well i was messing around training mode the other day when wifi was messed up. And i found for myself that full hit nair or 2 hit nair has a pretty good chance of making ur opponent trip or stumble. Im one to really mess around with combos when it comes to toon link. Also before anyone says it, lets ignore the whole "brawl has no true combos" at this point in time. Its truly just out of curiosity.

Anyway i have a combo theory that i need to test, but i have yet to master all of the required skills to perform it. So im looking for really skilled toon link players.

What they need to know how to do is:
1. Jab Cancel
2. Short Hop
3. Full Nair
4. Reverse Arrow Cancel (or w/e its called)

Combo: (At 0% for testing sake)
Jab>Jab>Utilt>SH Nair 2 hits>Reverse arrow cancel

Theory: Well the back of the nair can make opponents trip and stumble pretty good% of the time. And since its possible to arrow lock someone with one arrow after they trip. If you can do both together when they are really close to you, you can get a free hit on them, like a fsmash.

Possible Problems: Well you cant changing the timing of the arrow cancel, so it may shoot too early or too late. Though characters fall at different rates, and it may be character and damage specific if it does work. And they may not trip from the nair. There may also be points of escape that i cant see, mainly between jab>utilt>Nair

So if anyone has the time and the skill, would you please test this. I just love flashy and overly complex combos. And if it turns out that it may work on certain characters, ill get on learning reverse arrow cancel.

Thx for your time.

[sasukebowser]

The second hit if Nair doesn't trip if the first hit hits.
Pretty sure.


And Jab cancel to Utilt is meh.
And arrow cancel at the end leaves you open after then get it.

[Ryos4]

actually it does trip if first hit hits. That part i tested out for myself. I was bored so i was testing out the combo aside from the arrow cancel, i just thought of the arrow cancel today. But the utilt to nair had a pretty good chance of tripping based on the tests i did the other day. It felt like about 50% chance of trip, after i did a set of 10 and 7 out of 10 made them trip. So im assuming its around 50% chance.

As for the arrow cancel, it wont leave u wide open. I use regular arrows in the middle of melee combat, and it constantly works out for me. Close range arrow to grab works alot based on my experiences. If the arrow hits u can get a grab, if they shield u got them, if they spot dodge you got them.

Isnt the whole point of the arrow cancel to cancel lag. And if indeed the nair to reverse arrow cancel works then u wouldnt be the one open, they would.

The 2 jabs are just to add up the % so the utilt hits them high enough but not to high so that you can nair them. U could just start it from the utilt possibly, but the jabs just put them in a good position for it.

[Or30]

I Usually use the Bair cuz' it's pretty Effective against Heavy weights like DK, Bowser, Etc.

[Silver Swordsman]

Jab to utilt can work, but a full nair (which isn't very reliable because it needs like the worst possible spacing to work) won't have any chance of tripping because the opponent's gonna be in the air after a utilt (and if they're landing before you use it..wtf are they doing not defending themselves??). Arrow Cancel at the end could be good or bad...but whether it hits or not it won't lead into an arrow lock. TL doesn't shoot nearly fast enough (yes there's shda, but if they're on the ground you have no chance of landing both arrows).

It's a nice idea though, and could definitely work if the other person isn't expecting it, probably landing at least 40%.

[Ryos4]

actually ive tested all of it aside from locking them with the arrow. Since i was being lazy i just tested it at 0%. But u can go from 2 jabs>utilt>nair and they trip. Roughly 50% of the time. And no they arnt high in the air at 0% starting point. And when i said reverse arrow cancel. i didnt mean 2 arrows. just one arrow. Yes i know they fly slower then links arrows. But the fact is that they are about one toon link space from you if not less.

Anyway, since no one else wants to bother trying to do it or understands what im talking about. Can someone point me into the direction of a thread that explains reverse arrow canceling?

[iRjOn]

Hmm later today after school I could try and help you
:D

[Silver Swordsman]

I know exactly what reverse arrow cancelling is, I use it quite often. I was referring to how you said the string could lead into an arrow lock after a trip, which really is impossible. After the first arrow, they'd have ample time to get up or roll before you could use another arrow (or use any attack for that matter).

If you mean you're wondering whether the arrow will force them up or not... that depends if the nair tripped them or not. If they're laying down because the nair tripped them, then the arrow will not keep them down. If they fumbled because they didn't tech a fall while in hitstun though, an arrow will keep them down there (a lock is when you repeatedly hit someone who fumbled without letting them get up).

This does 38% total if all the moves are fresh. The two-hit nair is incredibly unreliable unless your opponent's huge like DDD or Bowser... some characters just fly out of your range (the idea is that the first hit seconds them backwards so that the second hit also lands). Unless they're really heavy it just won't work (and even then, you still need to have really bad spacing).

tl;dr
double hit nair sucks, and arrows won't set up for anything (arrow cancelling is useless for anything other than defense). If you force your opponent to trip and want to use something like fsmash, don't try setting it up with an arrow (too much lag), just use fsmash >.>

[DarkPikmin]

I think the double nair has some potential if they don't DI it. And who says arrow canceling is useless? It could lead to a fsmash like 0:29 here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wtvLVp73_E
He's is not talking about shooting 2 arrows... its SH nair reverse arrow. I'll play with this and see what i can do.

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Right, I understand, I've tested this and although it does work (If all goes well) it's just too unlikely for me personally and there are a few places where it's relatively easy to get out of the combo, but of course you already know about that. In any case the answer to your question again is yes, it does work.

This did however make me think, I'm gonna check out which moves can trip your opponent.
Edit: The only moves that trip are dtilt and the first and second hits of nair.