Lucario Matchup Thread: Toon Link

[Kitamerby]

Lucario boards are discussing the Lucario vs. Toon Link matchup. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6120720)

-What specific troubles do you have with Lucario as a Toon Link player? Does Lucario shut down any of your game?


-What advantages do you feel Lucario has against you?


-What disadvantages do you feel Lucario has against you?


-Is there any method or strategic goal you would use to win this match?


-What stages would you want to counterpick against a Lucario? What stages would you want to avoid?


I would greatly appreciate it if players of the board would give their input on the matches, thanks!

This should be an interesting discussion.

[Shadow Moth]

Our sword out ranges his aura.
Not too common but we can block an aura sphere of any size with our shield (the metal one).
Not sure about this but I think Lucario rolls a lot because it's faster than running for him. Grounded spin attack is good if so.
His counter always strikes at ground level so if he counters in the air we can just jump it.
He is easily edge-hogged/grabbed because his recovery doesn't do damage.

[iRjOn]

Our sword out ranges his aura.
Not too common but we can block an aura sphere of any size with our shield (the metal one).
Not sure about this but I think Lucario rolls a lot because it's faster than running for him. Grounded spin attack is good if so.
His counter always strikes at ground level so if he counters in the air we can just jump it.
He is easily edge-hogged/grabbed because his recovery doesn't do damage.
Our sword doesn't outrange his aura.

[DJBrowny]

Im certain we did this whole lucario v toon link thread ages ago... maybe its all a part of the big TL matchup thread

[Rawrness]

Bomb stops all auraspheres regardless of size.

[VietGeek]

Im certain we did this whole lucario v toon link thread ages ago... maybe its all a part of the big TL matchup thread

We did but I'm thinking of doing a serious re-discussion since maybe we now know Lucario rapes more now?

[iRjOn]

Bomb stops all auraspheres regardless of size.
No it doesn't
when they hit like 120ish% it'll just go through it

[flareaga]

I imagine since Lucario's recover doesn't damage that the combination of Tinks up special and tether can get annoying for when battling for the edge...

[Jman115]

Lucario is rough.
He has a decent projectile game.
His Dair out prioritizes our U smash and Uair
He gets stronger as he gets more damage which means he can kill make come backs pretty easily. He can kill at lower percents the more damage you deal to him which sucks.
The counter really sucks because it hits when you least expect it, and it can kill at a high enough percent.

[Shadow Moth]

The counter is easy to avoid. Just jump : ). Although, unless you're in the middle of an attack, you really shouldn't be hitting his counter anyway. It's easy to see coming and easy to punish. What more could you want?

[Jman115]

If the Lucario player is good, you won't see it coming and you don't always have time to jump. Especially if you are approaching with an aerial and he counters last second. If you see it coming, the counter works against him. However one of my friends who I play all of the time uses lucario and we know each others playstyles very well. So it is probably easier for him to sneak one on me.

[Shadow Moth]

If you use more projectiles he won't be as counter-happy when you go in close.

[rebd121]

Lucario is rough.
He has a decent projectile game.
His Dair out prioritizes our U smash and Uair
He gets stronger as he gets more damage which means he can kill make come backs pretty easily. He can kill at lower percents the more damage you deal to him which sucks.
The counter really sucks because it hits when you least expect it, and it can kill at a high enough percent.

Up smash, I'm not sure about, but I know for a fact that Uair will go through Dair if you go directly below Lucario.

[Everis755]

I know for a fact that our Usmash is out prioritized by his Dair, but our Uair beats his Dair. My friend mains lucario and he knows by now that he needs to DI my Uair. We beat him there.

[ImpactAR]

This match up is awkward for me. I want to say that TL has more of a damage advantage because he has the movement, Zair, and projectiles to space out Lucario and eat threw his projectiles...until a certain point.

TL can play his poking and projectile game to build up the damage. Countering and out prioritizing is what counts. However, I usually punish laggy attacks with TL for KOs.

The main problem I have with Lucario is that he is difficult to KO punish. He recovers pretty fast after all his moves, his rolls are long and have very few vulnerability frames. On top of that, Lucario become stronger doing more damage and more knock back as the damage goes up so missing a close up attack can lead TL being KOed.

At a certain point Lucario will reach a damage where his projectile won't get eaten by TL's Zairs and bombs. This is usually close to when he's in TL's KO range and it makes it difficult to put pressure on Lucario. Getting hit by a small one may help him follow up, getting hit by a big one can possible KO.

Lucario's Up Tilt and Down Smash can become powerful. Up tilt is really threat because it can be used back to back to rack up damage and become a KO move later. However, easily avoid by not getting close enough.

Lucario's Forward smash is difficult to punish with a decent Lucario. Spaced out there's really hard to punish. TL's roll is short and isn't all that great so you can't get the distance. Hyphen-smash is isn't fast enough to catch the lag. I really feel like Zair poking is really the best option against this.

Lucario's Dair is a very good move. Fortunately for TL his Uair is a disjointed hit box. So you can at least seek the opportunity to punish a Dair for a KO. But you got to be sure he doesn't have time to Dair before you.

Lucario's roll is ridiculously long and quick. I have hit to be able to punish this effectively. Just best to not be with his roll range.

I find that keeping Lucario on your sides and space him out. Avoid being in his Forward Smash range. It's best not to focus with aerial fights, but in the case of Aerial vs Aerial it's best also to stay to the sides away from Lucario's Dair range. Bair can space out nicely and unless you have time and space to come directly below it with an Uair to punish, avoid being below him. Otherwise if you try to Bair combo or something Lucario can sneak in a Dair.

For a TL, I think it's ideal to rack up damage and KO him when you can. The best plan for a TL think to rack up damage safely and Lucario happens to jump pretty high or if a bomb happens to knock him high up go for an Uair. Careful with being to focused on KOing because Lucario is hard to punish and while in KO range hits harder. But as humans TL players we sometimes get to Up Smash happy. As long as there is some restrain a TL player should be able to hold this match up.

[mars16]

Being ToonLink vs Lucario.. I don't have that much problems because I use Toon Links speed and projectile to my advantage but then before Lucario can get even stronger from the damage I give him I'll go for a K'o Attack. Because If he gets stronger he can fire bigger aura balls.

[sasukebowser]

Please don't bump really old threads for no reason.