Toon Link - Too Low on the Teir List?

[Phantom7]

I've been looking at the new tier list a lot lately and noticed a problem - Toon Link. Why is he so low? He's pretty easy to use and has great attacks. In this post I will name some advantages that Toon Link has.

- His standard A combo is good and comes right off. And after that attack it can easily combo into other attacks.

- His side smash is quick and does a lot of damage. Even the first hit can be used as KO move. But his other smashes are really good as well.

- His down midair - one of the cheapest attacks in the game. It has high priority and does about 15 % damage. It also has a big hitbox and sometimes shielding doesn't always work with it since he bounces off and back on top of the opponent.

- He is very fast and has excellent jump.

- His recovery is decent, even though it's not the best. I never see Toon Link get KOd because he can't make it back up. (Unless someone spikes him at high percent) In summary, his midair jump + upB is a pretty good recovery.

- He has 2 projectiles, 1 that you can charge. (excluding bomb)


So there you go. In my opinion, TL should at least be B Teir.

The only disadvantages I can think of are that he's light - but so is Meta Knight (who is actually lighter) and he's SS Teir. And also his grab is not too great.


Btw, I'd just like to say I made this thread because usually when I fight Toon Link, I'm always getting punished by dair and his smash attacks. I usually find him one of the harder characters to fight, and I just think he should be higher on the teir list, that's all.

[Smith]

He's light, so he can be an easy kill.
His kill potiental isn't exactly that good.
If he misses his grab he can be easily punished.

[Phantom7]

He's light, so he can be an easy kill.
His kill potiental isn't exactly that good.
If he misses his grab he can be easily punished.

True, I forgot about his grab. It kinda sucks.

[Jraz]

"I've been looking at the new tier list a lot lately and noticed a problem - Toon Link. Why is he so low? "

You do realize that toon link hasnt changed position in either list right? he stayed steady at 17 ( which i agree is too low). All that the backroom did was make a more sperateed list, which put him in the 6th or D tier rather than being in the middle tier as in the first version.

Just thought id point that out.

[Near952]

I've been looking at the new tier list a lot lately and noticed a problem - Toon Link. Why is he so low? He's pretty easy to use and has great attacks. In this post I will name some advantages that Toon Link has.

- His standard A combo is good and comes right off. And after that attack it can easily combo into other attacks.

- His side smash is quick and does a lot of damage. Even the first hit can be used as KO move. But his other smashes are really good as well.

- His down midair - one of the cheapest attacks in the game. It has high priority and does about 15 % damage. It also has a big hitbox and sometimes shielding doesn't always work with it since he bounces off and back on top of the opponent.

- He is very fast and has excellent jump.

- His recovery is decent, even though it's not the best. I never see Toon Link get KOd because he can't make it back up. (Unless someone spikes him at high percent) In summary, his midair jump + upB is a pretty good recovery.

- He has 2 projectiles, 1 that you can charge. (excluding bomb)


So there you go. In my opinion, TL should at least be B Teir.

The only disadvantages I can think of are that he's light - but so is Meta Knight (who is actually lighter) and he's SS Teir. And also his grab is not too great.

Its pretty easy to see the startup frames of Fsmash and shield them, hence why Usmash kills are more common. And you can actually get out of the Fsmash before the second hit (even though I can never do it >_>) and some characters like jigglypuff automatically get out of it.

Dair bounce is fun :laugh: But dair itself is very laggy and easily punished, if you miss onstage, your going to get hit, if you miss offstage... well you die.

He spends alot of time in the air, so someone with a good anti-air game destroys him (Olimar for example)

Light, hard to kill with ect.

and haven't there already been several threads like this?

[CaliburChamp]

Toon Link feels more like a high tier character more so than a middle tier character to me. He is better than mediocre with his projectile set ups, and it's not that hard to set up KO's when you use Invinci-Bombing to up-smash. His Z-air is useful for spacing, he is just a really good character.

[Cloud Cleaver]

He's got a lot of neat tricks, but nothing to really DO with them. Bomb-traps, zair, bomb spikes, etc. don't do you a ****ed bit of good if you don't have a reliable killing move.

[TLMarth]

I've been looking at the new tier list a lot lately and noticed a problem - Toon Link. Why is he so low? He's pretty easy to use and has great attacks. In this post I will name some advantages that Toon Link has.

- His standard A combo is good and comes right off. And after that attack it can easily combo into other attacks.

- His side smash is quick and does a lot of damage. Even the first hit can be used as KO move. But his other smashes are really good as well.

- His down midair - one of the cheapest attacks in the game. It has high priority and does about 15 % damage. It also has a big hitbox and sometimes shielding doesn't always work with it since he bounces off and back on top of the opponent.

- He is very fast and has excellent jump.

- His recovery is decent, even though it's not the best. I never see Toon Link get KOd because he can't make it back up. (Unless someone spikes him at high percent) In summary, his midair jump + upB is a pretty good recovery.

- He has 2 projectiles, 1 that you can charge. (excluding bomb)


So there you go. In my opinion, TL should at least be B Teir.

The only disadvantages I can think of are that he's light - but so is Meta Knight (who is actually lighter) and he's SS Teir. And also his grab is not too great.

Dair sucks, fsmash sucks.
predictable recovery.

[CaliburChamp]

Dair sucks, fsmash sucks.
predictable recovery.

D-air is both good and bad. It's ALOT more useful on certain stages more than others. Non-spike D-air is pretty good too, it racks up a great amount of damage and can lead into an Up-air as the last hit. F-smash seems good to me, it's easy to set it up to hit since it's a quick smash and hit's twice, and it works great with Boomerang. If you know how to set up the boomerang right, it's not so hard to connect with F-smash. Toon Link's recovery isn't so predictable, he has the option to hookshot to the ledge, throw a projectile out to prevent an edge guard... Toon Link has alot more options for a safe recovery more so than most of the characters in this game.

[Shadow Moth]

You can't use the first hit of his F-smash as a kill move. It will never, EVER kill.
Dair isn't cheap. It's way too easy to predict even if you can't see it coming.
You didn't even mention bombs which are, like, his best, most versatile weapon (possible better than his sword!
.............................................. JK guys).

[Bomber7]

Dont care. I'm gona improve anyways. Its just a list, not god.

[Jman115]

I think TL should be a little higher, but presently he isn't THAT far off of where I would put him. We just have to start putting out better and more tourney results.

[chaos11011]

i made this thread a while back It never worked

[oOJaseOo]

A real toon link player doesnt see the tier list as wat toon link has accomplished, its just a hit list telling him whos next ^^

[iRjOn]

i made this thread a while back It never worked
because this thread is really just stupid spam
Nothing really
Its not like an arguement here will change his position on the tier list
thats what the board where the tier list is, is for kinda...

[Hyro]

I've been looking at the new tier list a lot lately and noticed a problem - Toon Link. Why is he so low? He's pretty easy to use and has great attacks. In this post I will name some advantages that Toon Link has.

He's not easy to use. He's easy to spam with but to get good with him he takes a lot of practice. And most of his attacks are predictable.

- His standard A combo is good and comes right off. And after that attack it can easily combo into other attacks.

- His side smash is quick and does a lot of damage. Even the first hit can be used as KO move. But his other smashes are really good as well.

Toon Link's side smash is good on your friends. I can't remember the last time I've killed with it while playing someone really good. And the first hit would never KO, not even at 999%.

- His down midair - one of the cheapest attacks in the game. It has high priority and does about 15 % damage. It also has a big hitbox and sometimes shielding doesn't always work with it since he bounces off and back on top of the opponent.

...cheapest? lolwut? If a TL uses this move to much, it's not smart. This attack just asks to be punished. And most people just sheild the dair and the bounce.

- He is very fast and has excellent jump.

Oh yeah ;D

- His recovery is decent, even though it's not the best. I never see Toon Link get KOd because he can't make it back up. (Unless someone spikes him at high percent) In summary, his midair jump + upB is a pretty good recovery.

You've also never played a Meta Knight lolol

- He has 2 projectiles, 1 that you can charge. (excluding bomb)

Mmhmm!


So there you go. In my opinion, TL should at least be B Teir.

Eh, I would say C.

The only disadvantages I can think of are that he's light - but so is Meta Knight (who is actually lighter) and he's SS Teir. And also his grab is not too great.

Disadvantages:

Horrible grab game
Predictable
Gimpable recovery
Low killing potential
Very light
Bad CQC (shut up near)

[demonictoonlink]

Eh... I think he's about where he should be. Definitely no lower, but he could move up some

[sasukebowser]

Who freaking cares

[Shadow Moth]

What's CQC?
We really should have a n00b's guide to abbreviations and acronyms (spelled both of those right on the first try). Really, we need one.

[sasukebowser]

Close Quarters Fighting.

[Shadow Moth]

Shouldn't that be combat? LOL
I'd make the dang acronym guide if I actually knew all that many acronyms.

[sasukebowser]

Ohh my bad.
Combat.

[Cloud Cleaver]

Really, it doesn't matter. You're already using him, so just keep doing it. Only screwballs pick a character based solely on tier position. ;) Real players pick someone like TL, who has potential but isn't easy or broken, and MAKE him good through skill.

Right Sasukes?

[Phantom7]

Disadvantages:

Horrible grab game
Predictable
Gimpable recovery
Low killing potential
Very light
Bad CQC (shut up near)

Well, I have punished people for using dair, but most of the time it's pretty bad*ss. Imagine trying to avoid that attack on the Battlefield platforms. You don't have much room to get out of the way, espcially since the hitbox is so big.

Low killing potential??? lmao... what about his usmash? And, yes, I have been killed by the 1st hit of his ssmash, using Wolf at about 100%... is that low killing potential?

Also, I wouldn't say he's very light, just light, not like Meta Knight, Kirby, or Jigglypuff. And MK is SS Tier!!

And... what's CQC?

[Megachuk]

close quarters combat

[CaliburChamp]

Well, I have punished people for using dair, but most of the time it's pretty bad*ss. Imagine trying to avoid that attack on the Battlefield platforms. You don't have much room to get out of the way, espcially since the hitbox is so big.

Low killing potential??? lmao... what about his usmash? And, yes, I have been killed by the 1st hit of his ssmash, using Wolf at about 100%... is that low killing potential?

Also, I wouldn't say he's very light, just light, not like Meta Knight, Kirby, or Jigglypuff. And MK is SS Tier!!

And... what's CQC?

Same here, I have no problems getting a KO with Toon Link. And I noticed Toon Link's killing potential can go much higher on sloped stages like Green Hill Zone, Corneria, Yoshi's Island Pipes, any stage with a slope, get on the hill and try to force your opponent to approach you and once they get in range, DOWNSMASH! The glitchy downsmash is broken and can kill at 0% depending on the stage.
When you play Sonic as well, you realize Toon Link doesn't have such a hard times getting KOs. lol.

[Jman115]

Well, I have punished people for using dair, but most of the time it's pretty bad*ss. Imagine trying to avoid that attack on the Battlefield platforms. You don't have much room to get out of the way, espcially since the hitbox is so big.

Low killing potential??? lmao... what about his usmash? And, yes, I have been killed by the 1st hit of his ssmash, using Wolf at about 100%... is that low killing potential?

Also, I wouldn't say he's very light, just light, not like Meta Knight, Kirby, or Jigglypuff. And MK is SS Tier!!

And... what's CQC?

I am just going to be frank. You are an <insert rude comment>

1. You are not killed by TL's first of his side smash at 100%. It has virtually NO knockback. Period. Go test it in training. You were more likely hit by his side tilt and you had horrible DI. Or you were in fact hit by the second hit. It is possible for TL to swing the first hit and wait almost a full second before using the second hit. So it seems like the move should have reset, but you are in fact using the second hit.

2. ONE good kill move does not give him "good killing potential" especially when that kill move is so **** predictable. Hence why TL does not have good killing potential. He can rack damage up but all of his kill moves (uair, fsmash, usmash, fair and ocassionally dair, utilt, or bair in rare circumstance) are VERY predictable and easy to block, dodge etc. and then punish.

3. MK is SS tier not because he is light. MK has a move set that has INSANE priority (in other words, if two people go head to head and hit moves at the same time, his move will cancel his opponents move and then proceed to hit his opponent). He has incredible gimp potential due to the trajectory, priority, speed, and range of his move. MK has the fastest moveset in the game. Which means his moves come out near lagless, and end near lagless which means if hte player is good, he is virtually unpunishable. MK is also an extremely fast character. etc etc I could go on.

Point being, the light characters that are good (jiggly is not) are good because even though they are light, they have a lot more PROS going for them. Not only do they have more pros, but the pros they do have are REALLY good pros that feed off each other and work with each other. TL has the pro of good projectile game for racking up damage but the con that counters that pro which is low kill potential. That is how TL is overall as a character, hence why he is mid tier, hence why most of his matchups are right on that 50/50 mark.

4. Dair sucks. It has its uses and on certain stages you can actually use it. But I am sorry it is not "near impossible" to escape on battlefield. That is laughable. The hit box is not huge. All a player on the platform has to do is roll (there is enough room), spot dodge, drop down, or block. And smart players will block both hits of Dair. If Dair misses there is a lot of end lag. So teh player can easily punish you severely. The nature of Dair makes it a predictable, hard to hit move. It moves quickly in a straight line. There is no deviation. The startup to dair also has lag which makes it even more predictable. Once the player notices the start up animation, they step to the side and you are screwed.

5. You also misinterpret low killing potential for "can't kill." That is not the case. It means, his kill moves are predictable predictable compared to other characters because a lot of them are 1 dimensional. It means he has to rack a lot of characters up to higher percentages compared to the other characters. It means that his kill moves are harder to hit compared to other characters and more easily punished.

This stuff in no way means that TL is a bad character. THis is why he is mid tier. He is not bad. But his cons tend to balance his pros giving him little to no advantage in most of his matchups. Causing him to have to work his tail off for a win in comparison to other characters. But that is also why I believe most of us use him. Working your tail off for a win is more satisfying than not having to try.


Overall point being. hush. You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Sorry for being rude. But this rubbed me the wrong way.

[Dokutayuu]

I'm not terribly bothered where TL places in the list. He's the same character at the end of the day.

TL has some nice moves, like f-tilt and u-air and bombs. We all know he isn't perfect but nobody (other than MK apparently) is.

[Cloud Cleaver]

^
This. Toon Link doesn't suck. He's just not particularly advantageous. He's a middle-of-the-road, mid-tier, even, balanced character whose abilities reflect solely on the ability of the player relative to his opponent.

[Phantom7]

^
This. Toon Link doesn't suck. He's just not particularly advantageous. He's a middle-of-the-road, mid-tier, even, balanced character whose abilities reflect solely on the ability of the player relative to his opponent.

Yeah, maybe it's just cause I play as Wolf almost every time I fight him, maybe that matchups not very good. It seems like Wolf would have an advantage over TL though, since he has strong fast attacks and TL is light.

[TLMarth]

Oh now I get it! you play against Toon Link.
**** I'm dumb.
Should have realised it earlier.
So you have trouble with TL.
do you want advice?

[flareaga]

despite tether grabs being easier to punish, I still think they are better than most grabs (besides chains)

[chaos11011]

nope our grab (on the floor) is horrible (sp.?_

[CaliburChamp]

Same here, I have no problems getting a KO with Toon Link. And I noticed Toon Link's killing potential can go much higher on sloped stages like Green Hill Zone, Corneria, Yoshi's Island Pipes, any stage with a slope, get on the hill and try to force your opponent to approach you and once they get in range, DOWNSMASH! The glitchy downsmash is broken and can kill at 0% depending on the stage.
When you play Sonic as well, you realize Toon Link doesn't have such a hard times getting KOs. lol.

EDIT: I can't KO campy roll spamming Lucario's with Toon Link. *_*

[BlueShield]

I do believe in Tiers to a certain extent and I think his placement it just right. His zair isnt even an option for recovery so that leaves him with one, predictable recovery that can be gimped just as well as he can gimp other's recovery. His FSmash is not that reliable as one can get out of it and bring the pain to TL because of the ending lag, though it is a great killer. His dair is a great move and the best spike I've ever seen and hitting it isn't that hard but if you're up a against a really smart player that knows how to keep his cool then your gonna die. His Zair Gaurding is awesome to say the least. But when he misses the grab on the ground. WOOHOO. Say goodnight. Can't tell ya how many times I've died because I missed then got Falcon Punched to the next century. I'd say 17th is perfect for him. But as I said, I only believe in Tiers to a certain extent.

[Jman115]

Dair is not a "great move" and not the "best spike." :) It has an easy to spot start up animation, tons of end lag, predictable trajectory and if you miss off the edge which will be most of the time against good players, then it you are dead.

It is very poor as far as spikes go. It has its uses, but they are not a great many. Dair becomes useful in stages with water, but then the spiking aspect goes out the window for the most part.

[NeoCrono]

Toon link is too low IMO
just because he is a very safe character and how many options he has. I love toon link lol, I don't know how Zamus is higher then him.... but whatever, gotta do work with him at COT 4 I guess :)

[VietGeek]

ZSS is higher than him because she is sexy.

The SBR knows it and is not afraid to show it.

How you interpret sexy is up to you.

But in the end it is still very right.

[sasukebowser]

Just stop posting in the thread.

Its basically *****ing and doesn't make much of a difference.

[TLMSheikant]

I probably see him a few more spots up next tier list. But not much.