Why do you guys not do this? (TYPDD)

[Salem]

Things You People Don't Do, or hardly ever do for that matter, or maybe I just been watching to many videos...

Yeah, i've noticed it, but I haven't seen anybody else do this much, Toon Link would be higher in the tier list (possibly) if you guys would just cancel your attacks with your bombs all the time, theres also some other interesting trick you guys hardly ever do.

Seriously...

I'll just show you guys some examples, though i'll be using Final Destination as the stage for this example, so try to follow with me here okay?

Bomb Pressuring

Regrab the bomb as soon as it's shielded (Not power shielded becuase the bomb explodes if I remember correctly.), you guys know how to do this, simply jump and press Z once the bomb is shielded to regrab, afterwards you can throw the bomb again at the shield, which is what this move is all about, though I hardly see you guys do it...

Air Bombing/B-cancel or Attack Canceling

Simply throw the bomb in the air, though you should just jump and then throw it becuase I think the ground one gives you more frames which is not good, same for pulling out the bomb on the ground, so I suggest you not do it on ground, just jump and do it, you waste less time jumping afterwards, smart, yes? no?

This also rapes badly becuase if you played any SHMUP game you'll know where the bomb is coming from and avoid it so your opponet hits it instead of you, you should also possibly combo with it afterwards, which you all obviously know about, just saying though, but anyway you all know getting hit by the bomb is not bad either most of the time anyway, this can allow you to cancel any of your moves at will so blowing yourself up is not bad as long as its to mess with your opponets mind and etc, so yes, blowing yourself up is a mind game, get over it.


BoomeRing(ing) >_>;

Jump/Short hop then throw the boomerang at the ground diagnolly while facing away from the stage, and I said at the ground not off stage, if done right it should bounce off the ground, afterwards jump again and it should possibly fly across the ground and afterwards off it and into the air vanishing, theres plenty of ways to do this but I almost always full jump it anyway, so no reason explaining the rest, right?
-------

Yes, I know all of you probably know about this stuff already but it still makes it all almost impossible for you to get hit if done right, I just want the little kiddy to get somewhere better then there in the middle on the tier list for once, so get at it people! seriously... do it.

And that's all I have to say about this untill one of you guys post... wait one more thing.

This combo is mine!

Double F-Smash + Plus long stun into a bomb blowing both players up (Not holding the bomb either) = Finishing Blow and GAME!

Situational but its still my combo.

O_O

[demonictoonlink]

...
None of that was special. We do these already.
Your combo makes no sense...

[Salem]

...
None of that was special. We do these already.
Your combo makes no sense...

I know, but I haven't been seeing it be done much anymore, I just keep seeing everybody always use arrows though when they could have used a bomb in those situations instead of it, they could have also ended the game much faster, but oh well.

And the combo goes like this.

Throw a bomb into the air, Double F-Smash and during hit stun the bomb comes back down and explodes blowing everybody back, it's cool when done right, I got it in a few matches before at almost every end of a match, so I consider it my combo.

[toondiddy]

Things You People Don't Do, or hardly ever do for that matter, or maybe I just been watching to many videos...

Yeah, i've noticed it, but I haven't seen anybody else do this much, Toon Link would be higher in the tier list (possibly) if you guys would just cancel your attacks with your bombs all the time, theres also some other interesting trick you guys hardly ever do.

Seriously...

I'll just show you guys some examples, though i'll be using Final Destination as the stage for this example, so try to follow with me here okay?

Bomb Pressuring

Regrab the bomb as soon as it's shielded (Not power shielded becuase the bomb explodes if I remember correctly.), you guys know how to do this, simply jump and press Z once the bomb is shielded to regrab, afterwards you can throw the bomb again at the shield, which is what this move is all about, though I hardly see you guys do it...
high chance of getting sheild grabbed
Air Bombing/B-cancel or Attack Canceling

Simply throw the bomb in the air, though you should just jump and then throw it becuase I think the ground one gives you more frames which is not good, same for pulling out the bomb on the ground, so I suggest you not do it on ground, just jump and do it, you waste less time jumping afterwards, smart, yes? no?
we do........ always
This also rapes badly becuase if you played any SHMUP game you'll know where the bomb is coming from and avoid it so your opponet hits it instead of you, you should also possibly combo with it afterwards, which you all obviously know about, just saying though, but anyway you all know getting hit by the bomb is not bad either most of the time anyway, this can allow you to cancel any of your moves at will so blowing yourself up is not bad as long as its to mess with your opponets mind and etc, so yes, blowing yourself up is a mind game, get over it.
depending on the situation this can be useful, but most times its not

BoomeRing(ing) >_>;

Jump/Short hop then throw the boomerang at the ground diagnolly while facing away from the stage, and I said at the ground not off stage, if done right it should bounce off the ground, afterwards jump again and it should possibly fly across the ground and afterwards off it and into the air vanishing, theres plenty of ways to do this but I almost always full jump it anyway, so no reason explaining the rest, right?
-------
wheres your opp while your doing this
Yes, I know all of you probably know about this stuff already but it still makes it all almost impossible for you to get hit if done right, I just want the little kiddy to get somewhere better then there in the middle on the tier list for once, so get at it people! seriously... do it.
this wont get him higher
And that's all I have to say about this untill one of you guys post... wait one more thing.

This combo is mine!

Double F-Smash + Plus long stun into a bomb blowing both players up (Not holding the bomb either) = Finishing Blow and GAME!
i mean this in the nicest way posible, you can have the combo
Situational but its still my combo.

O_O
we appreciate the help but so far you have brought us nothing new, except if worked on the boomerang thing might turn into something. Dont stop trying though

[Salem]

I geuss so, the boomerang is still something all Toon Link players should master first, though it has almost an infinite amount of moves of its own and keeping track of them all is hard, also theres another boomerang trick to make it fly straight up but the angle is wierd. i'll possibly be the guy who just shows everybody where the boomerang can go and nothing else, you know what... that's what i'll do, make a boomerang guide, to at least help people send the boomerang in a direction they want it to go.

[toondiddy]

we already have a guide that talks about all 3 projectiles (analyzing projectile properties)
and we have a sole bomb guide (bombing like a pro)
but we dont have a sole arrow or boomerang guide.
my only advise is make sure you have enough info to make it. its not much of a guide with 2 tricks

[iRjOn]

Things You People Don't Do, or hardly ever do for that matter, or maybe I just been watching to many videos...

Yeah, i've noticed it, but I haven't seen anybody else do this much, Toon Link would be higher in the tier list (possibly) if you guys would just cancel your attacks with your bombs all the time, theres also some other interesting trick you guys hardly ever do.

Seriously...

I'll just show you guys some examples, though i'll be using Final Destination as the stage for this example, so try to follow with me here okay?

Bomb Pressuring

Regrab the bomb as soon as it's shielded (Not power shielded becuase the bomb explodes if I remember correctly.), you guys know how to do this, simply jump and press Z once the bomb is shielded to regrab, afterwards you can throw the bomb again at the shield, which is what this move is all about, though I hardly see you guys do it...
People do this when its smart to do. If its used too much your opponet will be like Hey they come to get thier bomb next time I'mma shield grab'em or I'mma hittem. And its safer to get the bomb with an airdodge.
Air Bombing/B-cancel or Attack Canceling

Simply throw the bomb in the air, though you should just jump and then throw it becuase I think the ground one gives you more frames which is not good, same for pulling out the bomb on the ground, so I suggest you not do it on ground, just jump and do it, you waste less time jumping afterwards, smart, yes? no?

This also rapes badly becuase if you played any SHMUP game you'll know where the bomb is coming from and avoid it so your opponet hits it instead of you, you should also possibly combo with it afterwards, which you all obviously know about, just saying though, but anyway you all know getting hit by the bomb is not bad either most of the time anyway, this can allow you to cancel any of your moves at will so blowing yourself up is not bad as long as its to mess with your opponets mind and etc, so yes, blowing yourself up is a mind game, get over it.
Its too situational. And you could have done something more reliable.

BoomeRing(ing) >_>;

Jump/Short hop then throw the boomerang at the ground diagnolly while facing away from the stage, and I said at the ground not off stage, if done right it should bounce off the ground, afterwards jump again and it should possibly fly across the ground and afterwards off it and into the air vanishing, theres plenty of ways to do this but I almost always full jump it anyway, so no reason explaining the rest, right?
Whats the point? You could have done something safer.
-------

Yes, I know all of you probably know about this stuff already but it still makes it all almost impossible for you to get hit if done right, I just want the little kiddy to get somewhere better then there in the middle on the tier list for once, so get at it people! seriously... do it.

And that's all I have to say about this untill one of you guys post... wait one more thing.

This combo is mine!

Double F-Smash + Plus long stun into a bomb blowing both players up (Not holding the bomb either) = Finishing Blow and GAME!
I have never seen someone even think of using a double fsmash.
This my be so crazy it might work...not...if you mean double the frist hit...kool but if you mean both that isn't even possiable at kill % or at low %

Situational but its still my combo.

O_O


All that stuff is known
I did a review over what you said ^_^
If you dont understand I'll explain it better.

[Salem]

The combo works both ways (I think, it's works in training though I need to check DI to make sure its an official combo.) the timing is hard though and I think the possible max damage is 30% for doubling the first hit and the other is about 35%(?) if you don't get hit by the bomb and get away with finishing the combo.

Again, it's a Hit-Stop-Hit combo, though so you might be able to air dodge out of it.

[DCStyle]

So you're saying that your opponents have approached you while you were stationary and you threw up a bomb? And then got hit with a forward/neutral A? And they couldn't shield/roll/side step it...?

[Salem]

So you're saying that your opponents have approached you while you were stationary and you threw up a bomb? And then got hit with a forward/neutral A? And they couldn't shield/roll/side step it...?

Uhh... kind of, though Toon Link's neutral A (with Jab Canceling fun.) lasts long enough to stop them from side stepping and my Toon Link keeps them where they're suppose to be, roll or not I will just turn around and attack afterwards(Yes I exactly do that, theres way to many frames to roll anyway.) so they will be forced to do something they didn't want to, and if they shielded my bombs I would have jumped above they're head (which stops me from getting shield grabbed) grab it then re-throw it into they're shield and repeat untill they do something else I could also D-air afterwards if I wanted to really stop them from shielding, and what i'm really trying to do is break they're defense in the first place so I can just finish them off with my combo anyway, I myself hardly ever use f-tilt with Toon Link, though it looks cool to reverse a f-tilt to hit them in the face behind the back, also I move fast enough to get out of the view of the camera so I can throw the bomb somewhere nobody can see it, so yes, I pretty much did what you said, becuase the opponet did not know where the bomb was it came and hit him and that's how these combo's where created.

situational I know, but I make them right at the beginning of the match so no worries if you think this is fake.

[rebd121]

After reading that, I sounded like a jerk. Sorry.

But, a lot of the stuff you proposed... makes sense, but seems highly situational.

[ImpactAR]

I want to touch on the points you made...

Bombs

You talk about two points here. One using a bomb multiple times and two a "better" way to toss bombs.

I agree that people should explore into catching bomb tactics, but you just stated a VERY simple concept. Throw the bomb, watch for the bounce, catch, throw it again. We all know this.

I've been saying to re-catch bombs and re-use them "efficiently." I've stated before that this is useful and there are a few old vids of me doing this. I even take it further by saying to Air Dodge catch and Zair to create more pressure/damage then throw.

Your second point is sort of bad. Throw bombs in the air faster? I disagree. This obviously disregards the use of Jump Cancel Bomb Throws.

Also, you're not thinking about how bombs bounce of shields. A bomb throw from the ground has more side bounce back since it hits more of the side, which gives you more space to safely catch you bombs. Throwing it from the air have more angles and add a bit more randomness. Usually makes you come closer for the catch. You need some thought to this.

Here's one:

Forward Moving Short Hop
Bomb Throw Forward
(watch for the bounce)
Second Jump + iNair

You'll move along with the bomb and if it bounce of the shield you can time the Nair to catch it and go into the air to set up from above. If they get hit by the explosion than you can add in the Nair for damage granted you spaced yourself right.

There are uses on how to throw a bomb, from the ground or from the air.

Boomerang

Requires the time and space to set up. Could work, but seems impractical.

Combo?

I don't understanding your combo... But I'm pretty sure it's not practical.

I'm sorry if I sound like a jerk. I'm just calmly discussing some of the problems I see what with you're saying.

[sasukebowser]

Bomb Pressuring - You should use Nair and not Z to catch the bomb. Its safer. Impact was the first to show us this.
I suppose people don't do this much because the bomb thats about to land gives TL time to do other stuff. (like, idk. pull out another bomb, shoot arrows, whatever).
But yeah, This is something more players should do.


Air Bombing/B-cancel or Attack Canceling- Your still getting damage though. And its not really worth it if you don't have a high chance of hitting them.
Canceling a Usmash or whatever is great, but the opponent should see it coming if you already have a bomb throw above you.
I use this tactic sometimes, but only when I'm at somewhat high percents. That was I don't get combo'd out of my own bomb.


BoomeRing(ing) >_>;- I do something a little different.
I throw it up, then jump as its coming back. That way it has a better chance of hitting the opponent, because its near the ground.


I suppose players do these things, just not "a lot". ._.



Idk about the combo. <_<

[DCStyle]

This reminds me:

Has anyone tried throwing a bomb at a shielded opponent, jumped over their shield and d-aired?
Your opponent slides into the path of the shielded bomb, and if they let their guard down, can be hit by the bomb.

Just a thought.

[Vorguen]

I think this sounds very unpractical and easily punishable.

[TLMarth]

Okay, so I'm looking at boomerangs a bit.

This will be slightly unpredictable for those who are inexperienced with these boomerang paths.
But they're not really that unpredictable.
The boomerang should not be used primarily for these paths, but for just hitting with the throw rather than the return. These paths are sort of like quickdraw, not suitable alone but good to fit in.

Unless we can find a way to change the trajectory dramatically when the boomerang is behind us.

The two main ways I'm looking at changing the boomerang path are:
Jumping over it as it comes back. (JUMP OVER)
Jumping, then letting it come over you as it comes back. (JUMP AND FALL)

Fast falling after you jump over makes an effect. (FAST FALL AFTER)

It also depends on wether you use short hop or full hop (SH) (FH)

There's a lot of timing stuff, so the possibilities I list here aren't all that you can do.
For example there's this weird thing that happens

Throw it upwards JUMP OVER. FAST FALL AFTER. It makes a straight line. Good for hitting behind you in a straight line.

Throw it upwards JUMP OVER. It makes a shallow U-shape.

Throw it upwards JUMP AND FALL. It goes past you and downwards in an arc.

Throw it upwards JUMP AND FALL THROUGH PLATFORM, it goes straight down behind you.

Throw it straight JUMP OVER, it goes behind you and up in an arc.

Throw it straight JUMP OVER SH. FAST FALL AFTER. Goes a bit up and then straight line.

Throw it straight JUMP AND FALL SH, it goes past you and downwards in an arc.

Throw it straight JUMP AND FALL FH, it goes past you and sort of an upside down U.

Throw it down JUMP OVER, it goes straight up behind you.

Throw it down JUMP AND FALL FH, it goes high over you and then goes in a straight line.

Throw it down JUMP AND FAL SH, it goes a bit over you and goes in an upside down shallow U shape.

Also full jump is really good for JUMP AND FALL

On a side note unrelated to projectiles,
fair can be used to send people backwards if TL touches the opponent with his body hitbox. It's not really good because it's not the sword, but w/e. The best use for this is when you're hanging on the edge, and you need to send someone off the edge but you're facing the wrong direction.
And it's probably known.


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