Toon Link's Match-up Discussion #32 - Jigglypuff

[VietGeek]

Jigglypuff

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6374/purinbf5.png
Ratio: 60:40 Toon Link

Synopsis:
Coming like...when you believe.

Onward!

[MrEh]

Take her to Norfair and you die. XD

[illinialex24]

Take her to Mansion and you die. Take her to Japes and you die.

Taker her to BF or Lylat or FD and you have pretty decent odds.

Overall your advantage, not more than 60-40 from what I know.

[Metatitan]

his camping and usmash kinda sting but jiggs is good at getting past most defenses. 60:40 cuz of that usmash x_x

[RhedKing]

I feel this is fair at 50:50. The upsmash is insane, I know, but jiggs can be really dangerous for TL.

camping isn't a big deal for jiggs really, bombs can help jiggs more than TL, arrows whe just puffs over, and boomerang gets canceled by nair bair fair or pound.

I'm sticking with 50:50

[illinialex24]

I feel this is fair at 50:50. The upsmash is insane, I know, but jiggs can be really dangerous for TL.

camping isn't a big deal for jiggs really, bombs can help jiggs more than TL, arrows whe just puffs over, and boomerang gets canceled by nair bair fair or pound.

I'm sticking with 50:50

Not these bombs. Give me links and I'd can be right. Give me Toon Link's and he will mindgame you to hell with them so you literally cannot use them. If you catch it, your eating a bair likely, if you don't, your eating a dair. He will drop it, catch it again, throw it up and start pulling out his boomerang and arrows so your only option is to get the hell out of there. His projectiles I would say are among the top 3 in the game. Honestly I would say it goes: Snake, Falco, Toon Link. He is insane.

[RhedKing]

Not these bombs. Give me links and I'd can be right. Give me Toon Link's and he will mindgame you to hell with them so you literally cannot use them. If you catch it, your eating a bair likely, if you don't, your Dodging a dair. He will drop it, catch it again, throw it up and start pulling out his boomerang and arrows so your only option is to get the hell out of there. His projectiles I would say are among the top 3 in the game. Honestly I would say it goes: Snake, Falco, Toon Link. He is insane.

Fix'd

I don't see how TL's gonna hit Jiggs with Dair. It's like Kirby using rock. They launch from so high up you can Air Dodge so easily.

But that's for another time.

Anyway I guess I don't play very good TL's if they don't mindgame their bombs :laugh:

I'll go with 40:60 then i guess.

[MrEh]

I hate the Bair.

That is all.

[illinialex24]

Fix'd

I don't see how TL's gonna hit Jiggs with Dair. It's like Kirby using rock. They launch from so high up you can Air Dodge so easily.

But that's for another time.

Anyway I guess I don't play very good TL's if they don't mindgame their bombs :laugh:

I'll go with 40:60 then i guess.

Nah, I said if you get hit by the bomb, your eating a dair. Getting hit by a bomb is a perfect way to get setup for a dair. It works very well. Your best option is just to avoid a downward throw of the bomb altogether.

[sasukebowser]

I hated Melee Jigglypuff. >_<
A lottt.

Idk about the Brawl one though. I don't think I've ever played a good Jiggly?
<_<


....
.......

Some Jiggly main please play me on Wifi tomorrow so I can get a sense of what the match up is like then write down my thoughts? ^_^;
(this method is working out good so far! =P)

[Metatitan]

I hated Melee Jigglypuff. >_<
A lottt.

Idk about the Brawl one though. I don't think I've ever played a good Jiggly?
<_<


....
.......

Some Jiggly main please play me on Wifi tomorrow so I can get a sense of what the match up is like then write down my thoughts? ^_^;
(this method is working out good so far! =P)

ur from SoCal ill play you :)

[sasukebowser]

Can you play now? =P

[iRjOn]

Jiggly
:D
I loved her in melee.
But in brawl
T-T
anyway
its like near 60:40 cause she doesn't kill us on stage that early.
Our usmash (easiest kill move to get her with) kill at like 70% fresh. Maybe 65 but still its early.
Her rest is still a beast.
But not too many combos into it anymore
T-T
Dont fsmash her at all.
Forget it exsist except for mind games.
fsmash can kill us
She pop out of the frist hit then in the lagg of the second slash she can rest and kill if we are at kill % which is kinda low...

Thats all I got atm

[Maniclysane]

Aaaah perfect timing. I've been trying to pick up Toon Link as one of my mains. His projectile game is pure rape. <3

It's probably 60:40 Toon Links favor. The person I play with the most mains Toon Link, so I'd say I have good matchup experience. Zair can completely rape us, and his projectiles can keep Jiggz out for long enough that we won't have much time to get you to KO percentages. Even with all of that though, Toon Links sword length isn't all that, and once we get beyond his projectile range we can usually keep the battle in our favor, until he gets out of our range.

The reason why it's only 60:40 is because if a Toon Link plays well enough it can be hard to get by your wall of projectiles, but once we're in we can probably stay in long enough to get you atleast halfway to KO percentages.

[copacetic]

Fix'd

I don't see how TL's gonna hit Jiggs with Dair. It's like Kirby using rock. They launch from so high up you can Air Dodge so easily.


A decent tlink won't d-air from high above you, unless you're using a laggy move. Usually it's either combo'd with the bomb or a bit over your head if you give us a shot. One of the first and more important things to learn when maining tlink is to not d-air from on high.

[F00LY]

I'll update this post later with my reasons, but I'm going with 60:40 or even 65:35 Jigglypuff. I can't stand fighting them.

Too much air priority, WOP, floaty to avoid bombs/uSmashes, gets out of fSmash way too easy, tougher to zAir than a larger character....more after work.

[VietGeek]

I'll update this post later with my reasons, but I'm going with 60:40 or even 65:35 Jigglypuff. I can't stand fighting them.

Too much air priority, WOP, floaty to avoid bombs/uSmashes, gets out of fSmash way too easy, tougher to zAir than a larger character....more after work.

Don't just camp with your projectile, use your sword to keep her away since that's what she fears the most (I mean that's what KOs here right? lol). She has no safe kill moves and relies mostly on gimps and edgeguarding. Use only zair and projectiles when you need to. She is forced to approach you. So make her approach you but lure her in with the intent of hurting her, not so she can ram you about and throw you offstage.

No way BARLW Jiggs has that much of an advantage considering TL's weakness of lacking KO ability matters very little here. That should say something.

Probably 60:40 TL. She's not ridiculously bad, but we all know she's by no means as amazing as her former self.

Don't use fsmash unless it's well-spaced and even then, use it to bait.

[MrEh]

She has no safe kill moves and relies mostly on gimps and edgeguarding.
DACUS and Fair say otherwise. Rest also works, and it's awesome.


If Jiggs isn't killing with her Fair, then it's stale. The Fair is pretty strong. ^^

[VietGeek]

Safe meaning if it hits a shield it's relatively safe from most forms of punishment. I'm pretty sure Rest is the most unsafe kill move in this entire game. o_o

Unless we have different definitions of 'safe', I have NO idea why Rest is safe. It's like the opposite of safe in everyway. o_O

DACUS..eh, I don't think it has enough shield k/b to be safe from punishment. Plus it's hard to space a DACUS. How much distance it covers depends on how well you inputted the command, making it even harder.

Fair I could give you but I'm pretty sure that's a bread and butter move so rarely will it kill unless you unstale it.

Think of her fair like TL's bair or Marth's fair. They are indeed decent killers, but because they're used so often, they'll likely be too stale to do that.

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Toon Link can't b-air chain jiggs as well as most other characters due to his low weight. Toon Link also had a poor recovery. Not good, yet not horrible. This makes him a good target for air gimp.

His teather also fails on contact with a downward f-tilt.

[GeneralWoodman]

u guys forget the z-air fade away to boomerang throw, arrow repeat. tl can infinitly camp iggz
60-40 tls favor

[sasukebowser]

His teather also fails on contact with a downward f-tilt.

wut
http://dfgdfgdf.com

[§teel]

look at viet pounding out these match up discussions

[Maniclysane]

His teather also fails on contact with a downward f-tilt.

We haven't even gotten proof of that.

And lawl, rest not a reliable kill move? It comes out on frame 2. That's pretty **** reliable.

[vbdood1337]

Toon Link kills with a fresh upsmash at 65 FROM THE TOP OF THE FIN AT CORNERIA WITH NO DI. It doesn't kill until around 90 on normal ceilings. Our upsmash isn't THAT good :(

I take all Jiggs to corneria, its been working pretty well for me (the like 3 times I've lost to a Jiggs and actually had the chance to cp.) Maybe it's just the Jiggs I've played, but killing at 70 is always nice.

[iRjOn]

We haven't even gotten proof of that.

And lawl, rest not a reliable kill move? It comes out on frame 2. That's pretty **** reliable.
He said its not safe
Reliable and safe are 2 totally different things
Its not safe saying if its missed then a high chance of punishment
Reliable means good chance that it will kill
and rest WILL kill
So its reliable...
Reread what he said now knowing what the terms mean
:)
thanks

EDIT:
Yea vb I meant to say low ceilings and then tell normal ceilings.
My bad man thanx for clearing that up.

[sasukebowser]

Our Upsmash is like, a NORMAL kill move. lol
Dsmash sucks and Fsmash is possible to get out of.

[MrEh]

Rest is safe as long as you're using it correctly. Example, Perfect Resting a Usmash.

[iRjOn]

Rest is safe as long as you're using it correctly. Example, Perfect Resting a Usmash.
That doesn't make it safe.
If that was the case Toon Links smashes are safe in all match ups if used correctly.
Thats how you sound not to be rude.
:)

[NeoCrono]

Rest is safe as long as you're using it correctly. Example, Perfect Resting a Usmash.

That doesn't make it safe, it makes it situational.

[Metatitan]

okay ive been hearing a lot of toon links saying jiggs has no reliable kill moves. a good jigglypuff will never ever ever stale her fair and will save it for the kill. If you have amazing DI and somehow stale her fair she has DACUS, drill rest and drill utilt (utilt is as strong as usmash apparently)

[F00LY]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw a few videos awhile back where Jiggs can rest between the hits of fSmash. Guaranteed?

[Metatitan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw a few videos awhile back where Jiggs can rest between the hits of fSmash. Guaranteed?

if she DI's correctly, yes

[iRjOn]

Omg We are saying her kill moves aren't SAFE.
But she has RELIABLE kill moves.
Just they aren't SAFE.
Meaning she has to put herself at risk to get a kill with any of her kill moves.
So her kill moves are RELIABLE but not SAFE.

Sorry I had to make it sound mean but misinterpretation is really annoying but I'm still smiling.
:)

[F00LY]

Also aren't all of Toon Links kill moves unsafe? Lol. So then it comes down to priority, range, power, and how much we're known to utilize our kill moves as damage rackers.

[sasukebowser]

Uair, Utilt, Usmash, and Fair are generally not too risky in set up correctly.
Which isn't really hard to do imo.

[Metatitan]

jigglypuff's fair, her best kill move, is in almost no way risky, unless the jiggs has poor DI and get shieldgrabbed

[F00LY]

Seriously we need a pro puff in here to give us some solid info on what she can do to us. This match-up is INCREDIBLY tough to me. Perhaps I just suck at the match-up and my bias is interfering with my points, but I really do feel like I'm at the disadvantage with her. Kirby is the same thing to me though and we have 60:40 on that. However I believe we go 45:55 vs MK, as crazy as it sounds which obviously our 30:70 rating disagrees with.

[illinialex24]

u guys forget the z-air fade away to boomerang throw, arrow repeat. tl can infinitly camp iggz
60-40 tls favor

No idea what you said but guessing by word Z you mean his chain and no I am not, and neither am I forgetting his boomerangs or arrows.

He said its not safe
Reliable and safe are 2 totally different things
Its not safe saying if its missed then a high chance of punishment
Reliable means good chance that it will kill
and rest WILL kill
So its reliable...
Reread what he said now knowing what the terms mean
:)
thanks

EDIT:
Yea vb I meant to say low ceilings and then tell normal ceilings.
My bad man thanx for clearing that up.

Rest is safe for only 1 reason. Its speed and invincibility. This allows it to literally interrupt multi hit moves. This means the opponent cannot shield it. Thats is when rest is safe. Fair is very safe if they are in the air. Bair is a very safe move and DACUS is meh safe but they need to be landing.

[Metatitan]

he camps hard but we hit hard up close