Grabbing information

[TheJerm]

I just thought of something. If we learned the full distance of TL's grab range, couldnt we use that as a mind game? For instance, I know most of you have grabbed someone and the chain had that sort of extended animation. Well, 99.9% of the time when I do it, the people I play are surprised when this happens. I think if we knew the properties of this, it would help our game out a bit. Thoughts? or has anyone already beat me to this??

[Shadow Moth]

should there be a slash between "anyone" and "someone"?

Anyway, I think this is a good idea but only if we go further than that. TL's grab has potential if we look past the wimpy damage. We definitely need a grab tech thread. Starting with what you said is good though; that happens to me too.

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

It happens to me when the opponent rolls away and I grab at the same time, or if the returning boomerang hits them just as they get grabbed. It sort of looks like they escape then get quickly sucked back in, then next thing you know, your holding them. Weird stuff, weird in a potentialy great way. I suppose this would happen with all tether grabs.

[TLMSheikant]

Hmm ive only seen this happen with link and tink. It looks promising. Good thread jerm.

[iRjOn]

Hmm this could be useful Jerm.
I thought about it once and still use it from time to time.
But I thought of Toon Link's bad grab game and just forgot about it.

Moth >.> correcting stuff in my guide it kool.
But this is the interwebz man
Grammer doesn't have to be perfect.
Dont be a jerk.

[TheJerm]

Yea, I get what you guys are saying about his bad grab game. But I actually like our grab. Sets up for some good damaged if used correctly.

[TLMSheikant]

BTW crossing an opponent's shield and pivot grabbing is a leet technique ive been using for a while after i saw sin's yoshi do it. Its still risky as hell so do it once a match and never ever again.

[Shadow Moth]

Moth >.> correcting stuff in my guide it kool.
But this is the interwebz man
Grammer doesn't have to be perfect.
Dont be a jerk.

I'm not trying to be mean but you really should look at which groups I'm in next time you go to my profile ;)

[DCStyle]

I find it hilarious when some people ground dodge and the hookshot goes through them, but they get sucked back in with the grab.

[TheJerm]

BTW crossing an opponent's shield and pivot grabbing is a leet technique ive been using for a while after i saw sin's yoshi do it. Its still risky as hell so do it once a match and never ever again.

Haha, yea, I use that trick in so many ways. But I dont wanna reveal ALL my secrets ;)

[copacetic]

It happens to me when the opponent rolls away and I grab at the same time, or if the returning boomerang hits them just as they get grabbed. .

Same thing with me. I don't know if I've had it extend aside from those situations, but I pull it off on my friend's Olimar a lot.

[ImpactAR]

Not to be negative, but length really isn't going help TL's grab range. Then there's the fact that at higher level play it won't set up into much. A regular grab is so much better than a hookshot grab. Let me explain.

The problem with TL's grab is the speed vs your opponent time to react. It connects on frame 12. Within an opponent's string it's extremely difficult to land. Dodges work too well on the hookshot. Dodges usually lasts 24 frames with the first and last 2 frames being vulnerable. It doesn't look like much, but it explains why and how easily it is to avoid being grab by TL. You can easily even Jab between TL's strings to interupt it and a string with a grab in it just has a bigger time frame.

A character with a regular grab on average will connect it on the 6th frame. If you dash grab, let's guesstimate it adds 3 frames. So that's 9 frames to connect. It reaches as far (if not further) and is much safer.

TL's grab sucks. The reward is not worth the risk. You really should only grab when you opponent obviously going to shield you next attack to get and extra little damage. Otherwise use it VERY sparingly. Unless you play against a scrub than all that those set ups would work.

[TLMarth]

Grab sucks...

You mean when the chain is really straight?
Do you think that there are special circumstances under which that happens, or do you think it's just personal experience to learn the spacing?

And do many people use signatures any more?

[ImpactAR]

Usually the hookshot grab seems like it's extend in certain situations, but you opponent is probably too close to you for some reason. You can grab your opponent when his/her attack still leaves him extended toward your direction after an attack or if he reaches out at you when he starts an attack. Shielding even makes the hit box bigger making your opponent "closer." You can grab a fingernail in this game if it's close enough.

Also I want to add TL can't grab opponent's in the air. Another reason why it sucks.

[sasukebowser]

He can't? @_@
But can't he grab Snake's cypher or something?

[ImpactAR]

Hmmm... Well, I'm not technically, right. In Melee Link "can" air grab, but it required your opponent to be straight in the the part off the point of the hookshot. So close that it's unlikely to happen. It could be the same in Brawl and Snake's cypher could be one of the few practical situation, perhaps only, that TL could go for an air grab. I'm thinking more like you can't grab an opponent when he/she is jumping away and what not.

Has anybody tested TL hookshot grab against Snake's cypher? I'm curious about it now.

[sasukebowser]

I've done it. >_>
Quite a few times, actually.

[iRjOn]

Its not that big Khai
Most Snakes will NOT recover next to the stage.
But in normal Situation he cant airgrab cause the opponet has something faster than your grab.
And its too short.

Sorry to sound like I'm knocking your idea Jerm.
This is still a good thread but Toon Link only has throw follow ups on certin characters and a low %.
He cant combo with grabs except the dthrow> attemp a bair chain.
But its not hard to escape.
I like Toon Link's grab game alittle.
But I still know its bad.
lol
:P

[Alzi]

I have done so many weird grabs with toon link on wifi the day i do a weird grab while holding a bomb i shall go crazy about it to you guys :P. Somtimes i do grab with that grab that has that certain animation you were just saying i stop for a few seconds lost on what to do next lol.

[Lobos]

I can grab in the air >_>

tlmarth - my signature doesn't show in all the threads for some reason

[Santi]

Yea you can grab Snake's Cypher at times.
But I just hit him instead because if you miss the timing on the grab.... you whiff Snake and have some lag as your left hanging.

[TLMarth]

mindgames for grabs: D throw will be expected, so opponent will DI + AC backwards...

[oOJaseOo]

up throw to falling bomb is pretty funny usually the only time i attempt a grab is for these especially if i throw 2 bombs up and they know about the santi bomb and shield thinking im gonna upsmash ^^

[TLMarth]

Teh mindgames, eh...

We can't be safe just using grab out of the blue we have to mindgame.

There is a lot of pressure on the opponent to shield when we spam, so there's some opportunity

[Alzi]

Can't you like throw a boomerang along the ground then run then as you run pass them turn around and grab while doing the slide?

Somthing like falco and when he lasers.

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

The best way to grab that I've found so far, is to Jab Cancel Grab. Simply hit A once or twice, then hit down to cancel the A's, then grab. By canceling the A's with down it means you can grab a lot earlier, thus making it almost unescapeable.
Also if you start jabing they will most likely try to block, then you know what happens next.

[Tiersr4Queers]

I find it hilarious when some people ground dodge and the hookshot goes through them, but they get sucked back in with the grab.same for me lol, i like how sometimes whn u grab it freezes then pulls i always yell GET OVER HERE!! everytime that happens lol x3

[Tiersr4Queers]

The best way to grab that I've found so far, is to Jab Cancel Grab. Simply hit A once or twice, then hit down to cancel the A's, then grab. By canceling the A's with down it means you can grab a lot earlier, thus making it almost unescapeable.
Also if you start jabing they will most likely try to block, then you know what happens next.whn u say hit dwn, u mean dwn grab? What do u mean

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Just down, as in down on the joystick, Hit A once or twice, the hit down (which will cancel the A's), then grab. It just means that you can grab faster. Normaly the grab will do another slash, but if you hit down and cancel the A's, it means you can grab.

[oOJaseOo]

The best way to grab that I've found so far, is to Jab Cancel Grab. Simply hit A once or twice, then hit down to cancel the A's, then grab. By canceling the A's with down it means you can grab a lot earlier, thus making it almost unescapeable.
Also if you start jabing they will most likely try to block, then you know what happens next.

I agree with this falcon uses this to start alot of combos ussually ending with a knee only differences its more risky for us and we dont have a knee =(

[iRjOn]

Or any grab follow ups really lol.

[Ashraf23]

That would be interesting to look into. Bad since Toon's grab game is very unsafe i usually grab when I know it will connect, so I dont see to much of this.

[Tektite]

Missing a grab can be very punishable with it's lag. You'll get a better chance doing a jab cancel into a grab.

[sasukebowser]

Zair -> Grab is the safest grab option.

[TheJerm]

Grabbing out of shield is pretty safe also.

[Santi]

I just grab when I feel like doing an Upsmash
lol.

it works :D

[Alzi]

I found out that usually at the start of matches with players like falco or rob i do a double jump towards them grab a bomb throw it at them then follow up with a boomerang to grab might work since most hold shield there until they see the bomb bounce the roll so if you do it quick enough you can get in a fast grab and start to combo.

[Hyro]

TL's grab game is not unsafe. I use to think the same but in all honesty, if you feel like it's unsafe you need to work on it. TL's grab is ridiculously good, especially when we get that "extra range". The best time to grab is when your opponent lands with an airdodge or trying to get back from the edge. It works wonders since even if they are far away, you can still grab them.

At low percents, a late nair to grab gets this extended range pretty much everytime.

[TLMarth]

That's cool, HR EDIT: lol useless post. w/e

[iRjOn]

TL's grab game is not unsafe. I use to think the same but in all honesty, if you feel like it's unsafe you need to work on it. TL's grab is ridiculously good, especially when we get that "extra range". The best time to grab is when your opponent lands with an airdodge or trying to get back from the edge. It works wonders since even if they are far away, you can still grab them.

At low percents, a late nair to grab gets this extended range pretty much everytime.
Really H_R?
Its not unsafe?
I need to work on it?
If i grab then throw them with each throw please tell me the follow ups...
And please tell me how punishable his grab is if missed Its soooo funny when people try and say his grab is safe if you work on it.
No matter how good you work on his grab its still unsafe.
Its like saying playing super well with Captin Falcon in brawl makes him not the worst character.
LOL

Hope I dont sound mean H_R just no man you may be great with grabs against who you play but that doesn't make grabs safe.