Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Discuss Matchups!]

[Shadic]

LINK


http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3018/al0904171405binout.jpg
Oh hai there. You want a Link guide?

Obviously, Link has had a bit of buffs. Between a slightly buffed recovery, uber-quick ALC, and a couple of changed moves, it makes sense that his game has changed quite a bit.

Feel free to link (pun!) to any good videos, describe matchups, and if need be, talk about what you think Link can do about his weaknesses.

Comprehensive Link Changes
(As of Plussery 5.0)


Up B:
- First Hitbox - Damage of strong up-b ground hit raised by 4 (12->16 hitboxes A-B; 9->13 hitbox C). KBG scaled to match previous knockback (72->54 hitboxes A-B; 72->50 hitbox C)

- Semi Spike - Angle changed to 16 (from 269) for 2nd, 3rd and 4th Hitbox
- Speedup adjusted:[1.500x Frame 1; 1.000x Frame 11]

Up-B (Air):
- Hits 1-4 replaced with refreshing Special Offensive Collisions using a 7 frame refresh rate. Hits a maximum of 5 times at 2 dmg for 10 dmg total
- SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.80x (Linking Hits)
- Final Hit: DMG to 7 from 4, Hitlag to 1.25x from 1 [4->7 Dmg; 160 KBG; 30 BKB; (40)∞]
- Sword hitboxes on final hit increased in size to 8/7 from 7/6

Up Tilt:
- Full move frame speed change replaced with equivalent IASA adjustment of 36->33 to avoid interfering with hitbox window


Down Tilt:
- Dtilt spike moved to tip instead of hilt.

Forward Smash:
- Angle changed to 25 (from 361)

Boomerang:
- Hitbox 1 - Damage increased to 10% (up from 7%)
- Hitbox 2 - Damage increased to 8% (up from 5%)
- Hitbox 1 and 2 - Knockback Growth decreased to 30 (down from 40)

Forward Air:
- Hitbox 1 - Base Knockback increased to 40 (up from 5)
+ Knockback Growth decreased to 5 (down from 100)

Back Air:
- Hitbox 1 and 2 - Base Knockback increased to 35 (up from 0)
+ Knockback Growth decreased to 0 (down from 100)
+ Angle changed to 72
- Hitbox 3 - Base Knockback decreased to 50 (down from 70)
+ Knockback Growth decreased to 60 (down from 70)

Up Air:
- Strong Hit - Base Knockback increased to 25 (up from 18)

Z-Air:
- Hitbox 2 - Angle changed to 80 (from 45)

Dash Attack:
- All Hits - Base Knockback increased to 40 (up from 30)
+ Knockback Growth decreased to 60 (down from 80)
- Hitbox 2 (mid) - Angle changed to 100 (from 80)
- Hitbox 3 (run through) - Angle changed to 90 (from 70)
- Hitbox 4 (run through) - Angle changed to 80 (from 60)
- Wind-down Speed increased by 1.25x
- Priority of hitboxes changed from 10>12>11>11 to 12>11>11>10. 12 dmg hit should now go through again when both the 10 and 12 dmg hitboxes connect

Up Smash:
- Hitboxes 5 to 8 - Base Knockback increased to 75 (up from 70)
+ Knockback Growth increased to 95 (up from 80)

Standing Grab:
- Frame speed change pushed back 2 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.500x Frame 19] Old:[1.500x Frame 17]

Grab (Dash):
- Frame speed change pushed back 2 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.800x Frame 21] Old:[1.800x Frame 19]

Grab (Turn):
- Frame speed change pushed back 4 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.900x Frame 21] Old:[1.900x Frame 17]

Downthrow:
- 100 angle from 110, BKB 50 from 60

Jab1:
- SDI multiplier to .8x from 1x
Jab2:
- RA-Bit[17] Set True at 16 frames (From 18)
- Allow Interrupt at 17 frames (From 20)

Neutral-B:
- 1.333x Animation Speed Starting Frame 0 (subaction 1CE)
- KBG to 60 from 50, BKB to 25 from 7



Physics Changes:
Physics Changes:
Shorthop: 1.050
Fullhop: 1.1
Fastfall: 1.075
Downgravity: 1.025
UpGravity: 1.1
Airdodge: Invincibility cut from frames 4-24 to 4-22. Still ends at 44. (Two frames gone)
Spotdodge: Invincibility cut from frames 2-20 to 2-15. Still ends at 22. (Five frames gone)



Advantages:

Disjointed Hitboxes
Three projectiles
One Semispike, one real spike
Moderately buffed kill moves from VBrawl
Z-Air for approaches
Arrows for off-stage guarding.



Disadvantages:

Easy to combo
Easy to punish
Easy to gimp
One of the worst recoveries in the game
Can't grab airborne characters
Hard to combo opponents at higher percentages


http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6555/al0904171406binout.jpg
Ground Game
Link's ground game is pretty nice, actually. He's got a couple of good moves to send enemies flying, and a few to make the enemies wish that they hadn't even bothered recovering. (Such as the lovely DTilt, above.)
He can jab-cancel into a DSmash with his regular A combo, juggle with his Utilt, and punish rolling players with his DSmash.



http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8060/al0904171408binout.jpg
Air Game
With his uber-high ALR, Link has a lot of options in the air. His UAir has amazing priority, you can shorthop and try and punish those with uncreative recoveries with the Dair, sex kick for the gimp with Nair... Keep 'em guessing.



http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6153/al0904171417binout.jpg
Projectile Advantage
This is where Link actually stands out. What's the difference between the girly pink Martha and our beloved Hero of Time? -That's right, his ability to shoot people, whack 'em with a boomerang, and make them explode! His arrows have actually been substantially buffed in Brawl+, both charging 33% faster, and giving more knockback! Charge those suckers quickly and punish those with predictable recoveries!



http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2456/al0904171410binout.jpg
Recovering
Link has a couple of options here, which is good, because he's got one of the more limited recoveries in the game otherwise. His Spin Attack isn't too hard to get through, and Link's pretty easy to gimp in the first place. Take advantage of the fact that you can still snap onto the ledge with UpB after hitting somebody!

Combos:

All % Damage:
Jab > Jab > Dsmash (D-smash is quick and low so it works on almost everyone, Depending on character you may be able to spin attack/Utilt/Grab/Usmash)


Low % Damage:
DThrow > Utilt
DThrow > Utilt > UAir


Mid % Damage:
SweetSpotted Zair > Dash attack > Follow up, likely utilt.
Zair>DAC will work also


Used In Combos
Bair
Fair
Nair
Utilt
Usmash
Bombs


Combo Finishers
Dsmash
Fair
Spin attack
Uair
Dair
Boomerang
FSmash
Aerial UpB


Things to use if opponent fails tech
Jab
Fsmash
Dsmash
Dtilt
Spin Attack (Mindgame a roll out of them)


Ranged game play Defensive/Out of Shield
Spin attack (OOS) (Don't use too often)
Zair (Ranged/Defense)
Jab (Ranged/Defense/Approaches)
Projectiles (Ranged/Defense)


Mindgames/little purpose
Bthrow/Fthrow
Ftilt


Outdated Videos
Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Sonic) vs. Byron (Link) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FEQQf3T0ak)
Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Wolf) vs. Byron (Link) 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8GgsjKYHT4)
Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Sonic) vs. Byron (Link) 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK0U-lGlUxg)
Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Sonic) vs. Byron (Link) 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zafWVPzfeIk)
Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Sonic) vs. Byron (Link) 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaoYAFIM6L8)



SUBMIT COMBOS, STRATEGIES AND VIDEOS

[5ive]

Painted Ghost may have discovered that you can do an Up B hog, similar to that of in Melee.

Run towards the edge, up b with the right timing, and you will go horizontally and hog the edge.

[Shadic]

I've actually done that myself. Maybe you could B-stick it to do it easily? I don't Bstick, so I wouldn't know the exact functionality.

But if we get a friction increase that isn't character specific, I could see it going away.

[Falco400]

We have character specific friction, Almas wrote it, it just hasn't been implemented because no one has shown much interest in including it as of late.

[Shadic]

Well, the only character that seems to need it is Falcon. I could be wrong, but that's all I've noticed.

[PaintedGhost]

It really sucks when you try and UPB hog and don't hold the back direction. You just fall to your doom T_T

[RyuReiatsu]

I'd say that his chaingrab is way too slow, anybody thinks the same?

[Swordplay]

He's a beast.

Strengths

He can combo to about 60-70%
Amazing edge guard options including zair edge techinques to renew invincibility, D-tilt and up-b too good with no ASL?)
Lots of disjointed range with sword zair and projectiles (momentum was a huge buff in this area)
Lots of potential kill moves. (Strong and attacks send opponents at much better angles.)



Weaknessess

He gets COMBO'd (Wrecked from inside)
Recovery!!!!! (However when no momentum recovery code is made it will make him so much better)
Lacks ability to set up into one of his kill moves.


Links other categorizes are pretty average.


Overall I'd classify him as a glass canon character. He dies easy if gimped but he can kill too. If not gimped, Link can take plenty of hits before his own death as well. Link was built to be a on stage dominate force with a lacking ledge/offstage game. To that extent, he somewhat meets those qualifications. Not there yet but close.

[knuxrouge]

Down air mindgames and down tilt spikes.
Link+ for high tier.

[Shadic]

Dtilt has poor range and priority though, it needs at least one of those buffed for it to have its main purpose. But this thread isn't about buffs. >_>

[knuxrouge]

Priority only comes into play when clashing with other attacks, this close to the ledge, your mission is going to be to grab it.
The range is enough to get the job done.

[Swordplay]

Dtilt has poor range and priority though, it needs at least one of those buffed for it to have its main purpose. But this thread isn't about buffs. >_>

Absolutely not. If anything its over powered with no ASL.


Link's a beats if you play him right. He flows with grace in low-mid % and is possible the most overall disjointed character in B+ giving him the spacing tools to play a position game to exploit onstage mindgames and mistakes.

[Soldner Kei]

Link is a total beast in brawl+, just the character he should be, good at spacing, strong, kinda hard to kill, spammer lol, and spike-killer, and of course, still gimpleable and combo'd to oblivion lol... there's no thing i dont like about Link right now, he feels just so good

Link its pretty much balanced, High Mid Tier perhaps (?)

btw, Swordplay I gotta play you sum brawl+ lol, Link+ dittos ftw!

[Swordplay]

Link is a total beast in brawl+, just the character he should be, good at spacing, strong, kinda hard to kill, spammer lol, and spike-killer, and of course, still gimpleable and combo'd to oblivion lol... there's no thing i dont like about Link right now, he feels just so good

Link its pretty much balanced, High Mid Tier perhaps (?)

btw, Swordplay I gotta play you sum brawl+ lol, Link+ dittos ftw!

HELL YA. I still have your FC from when we played VB a while back.


We can talk about that stuff in PM's though

[Finns7]

Sup soldner Kei, good stuff seeing you hear, we need to get the others.

[Turbo Ether]

Link+ is still terrible. Still one of, if not the worst character. Falcon and Ganon are definitely better than him in Brawl+.

[PaintedGhost]

Link+ is still terrible. Still one of, if not the worst character. Falcon and Ganon are definitely better than him in Brawl+.

At least provide some backup evidence. You must be doing it wrong because Link is definetly not the worst. You should be playing more like Melee link, and aiming for quick UPB semi spike or Dtilt spike kills. Weak nair > Dtilt is rape.

[Turbo Ether]

Link is deifnetely not the worst.

Who is definitely worse than Link?

[Dark Sonic]

Who is definitely worse than Link?

Ganondorf, DDD....wait this doesn't even matter.

Our goal is to make even the worst character in the game playable. Being "the worst" shouldn't mean anything.

This thread is for talking about brawl+ Link strategies and fleshing out a metagame for him. NOT about buffs and nerfs.

[Turbo Ether]

This thread is for talking about brawl+ Link strategies and fleshing out a metagame for him. NOT about buffs and nerfs.

So, is there a more suitable place where I can discuss how bad I think this character is?

[Dark Sonic]

So, is there a more suitable place where I can discuss how bad I think this character is?

http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

I'm sure a few others would be happy to debate with you if they're on.

[PaintedGhost]

Ah you bring up a good point, he got better, but everyone else did too. However I think as of right now he is definitely better than Yoshi, Wolf, Ness, and Lucas.

Yoshi can be easily gimped in Brawl+, he also can't kill that well. Wolf is horrible. Bad recovery, aerials don't have much combo ability, and he doesn't have a good approach. Ness and Lucas can also be easily gimped now that they removed the auto-sweet spot. Lucas can't combo very well, but he can kill at relatively low percents. Ness is the opposite, he can combo fairly well, but he can't kill until the opponent is at a much higher percentage.

Link on the other hand has many combos. Dthrow > utilt, Weak nair > Dtilt/UpB, Uair juggles atlower percents and SHFFL'D Fair > jab are just a handful. Link also has three different projectiles, so if he wanted he could camp the **** out of an opponent that threatens him. He also has an improved and versatile recovery with UpB and his tether. Link can approach with nairs, Zairs, Fairs, a CC jab and he can kill with Fsmash, Ftilt, Dsmash, UpB, Dtilt, and Fair.

He is probably better than many other characters, but I wouldn’t want to make a list too big. He isn’t the best, but he is solid mid tier material.

Edit: wow subject changed already, I should refresh the page more often.

[goodoldganon]

http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

I'm sure a few others would be happy to debate with you if they're on.

He's gone to every topic and said they are the worst character ever or are total garbage. Thanks a bunch for linking him to the IRC so he can troll there to. :p:laugh:

[PaintedGhost]

He's gone to every topic and said they are the worst character ever or are total garbage. Thanks a bunch for linking him to the IRC so he can troll there to. :p:laugh:

Oh noez. The troll tricked me. :(

Anyway, did any of you guys find a use for that vBrawl technique C-walking? where you DI backwards in the air to slide?

[Popertop]

Ah you bring up a good point, he got better, but everyone else did too. However I think as of right now he is definitely better than Yoshi, Wolf, Ness, and Lucas.

Yoshi can be easily gimped in Brawl+, he also can't kill that well. Wolf is horrible. Bad recovery, aerials don't have much combo ability, and he doesn't have a good approach. Ness and Lucas can also be easily gimped now that they removed the auto-sweet spot. Lucas can't combo very well, but he can kill at relatively low percents. Ness is the opposite, he can combo fairly well, but he can't kill until the opponent is at a much higher percentage.

Link on the other hand has many combos. Dthrow > utilt, Weak nair > Dtilt/UpB, Uair juggles atlower percents and SHFFL'D Fair > jab are just a handful. Link also has three different projectiles, so if he wanted he could camp the **** out of an opponent that threatens him. He also has an improved and versatile recovery with UpB and his tether. Link can approach with nairs, Zairs, Fairs, a CC jab and he can kill with Fsmash, Ftilt, Dsmash, UpB, Dtilt, and Fair.

He is probably better than many other characters, but I wouldn’t want to make a list too big. He isn’t the best, but he is solid mid tier material.

Edit: wow subject changed already, I should refresh the page more often.

Link was pretty solid C tier material in Brawl if it wasn't for his recovery, but now that it is improved, I think that's where he'll be.

[Turbo Ether]

He's gone to every topic and said they are the worst character ever or are total garbage. Thanks a bunch for linking him to the IRC so he can troll there to. :p:laugh:

I made posts saying Link is still bad, Snake is trash, DDD was meh, and Fox was excellent. No trolling here, just blunt honesty based on early impressions.

[Ishieymoro]

Ether, what problems do you see with Link that make him bad? If you post them, maybe people can work to find a solution to those problems?

I like Link in brawl+, dtilt combos into practically anything.

:059:

[Dark Sonic]

I made posts saying Link is still bad, Snake is trash, DDD was meh, and Fox was excellent. No trolling here, just blunt honesty based on early impressions.

Early impressions are misleading.

[Swordplay]

Shadic are you going to turn this into a guide????

[Turbo Ether]

Ether, what problems do you see with Link that make him bad? If you post them, maybe people can work to find a solution to those problems?

I like Link in brawl+, dtilt combos into practically anything.

:059:
Might go into detail at some point.
Early impressions are often misleading.

Fixed. No one claimed otherwise.

[Shadic]

Shadic are you going to turn this into a guide????


Yup. Give me a chance when I'm not busy in class. Also, feel free to write out any suggestions of your own.

[Jiangjunizzy]

Brawl+ Link is still having a hard time, I think.

He has a hard time finishing off people, because he lacks set ups for kills. The kill buffs he was given are situational; the upB semi spike hardly ever lands; the dtilt spike is extremely situational (although it brings decent setups for combos), the stronger upB is alright, i guess, but you have to be very careful to use it (because of it's immense lag and slow start up).. and the fsmash is the only decent change that he was given. overall, link is better, but I think the buffs he was given were focused too much on trying to make him link melee link.. a focus on strengthening his horizontal kills; which were much stronger in melee, which either need to be way stronger/faster; or something different needs to be done to link.

[Shadic]

I put up a basic Advantages/Disadvantages list. Anybody recommending changes/additions to it would be welcomed.

And I think we can talk about what we think could be done with the character/how he should be altered to play, but we can't say things like "His recovery has to be buffed or he'll suck forever."

The biggest problem with Link is that he's probably the most flexible character in the game, as far as play styles. So it's hard to find what to improve to really help his game.

[V-K]

Speeding up his uptilt would be really awesome.
It´s one of his best moves.

[Shadic]

Updated the first post with some pictures and basic information. I'll toss up whatever you people suggest, as well, so start cracking!

[Swordplay]

Well done shadic!!!!!

Keep in mind that Link is going to be one of the strongest counter picks in the game.
Right now yea he has some major weaknesses.

However, the D-tilt spike makes some matchups really good for him.
(Bowser DK and Snake they get owned BAD by this and are forced to rely in onstage tactics in which Link was buffed in.)


I kind of agree with jiang but I think if we ever get a throw code it would hel him alot. WIth standing Grab reduced in lag it is a decent defensive option. If he could use a throw to set up for a kill move a little better then I tell you DAM. He would RAPE!!!!!!! I mean he is already viable in my opinion but that would make him top tier cause it gives him that final setup he needs to go into finishers.


Anyway, I'll do my part and think of some things to put in the OP.

[Finns7]

What game are you guys playing Link is a beast, he has kill setups and he can edgeguard. He has all the tools necessary to win a tournament. No offense but I think its more of a learn2playLink thing than actual weaknesses.

[Shadic]

Are you saying that Link has no weaknesses? If so, I think you're sorely mistaken.

One of the biggest steps in learning how to play a character is accepting their drawbacks (Except Metaknight,) and working with them.

[Finns7]

Shadic I never said he had no weaknesses

Im simply saying if you think he is one of the worst characters right now your playing the wrong game.

[GHNeko]

Are you saying that Link has no weaknesses? If so, I think you're sorely mistaken.

One of the biggest steps in learning how to play a character is accepting their drawbacks (Except Metaknight,) and working with them.

MK has drawbacks now.