«¤The Official Stage Discussion Thread¤» Week three: Smashville

[Shadow Moth]

Hi Toon Links of Smashboards (and various others), and welcome to The Official Stage Discussion Thread!

This is a place for discussion of threads in general but so we don't get out of control and disorganized I'm going to go ahead and lay down some ground rules:

1) All questions will be answered politely. No flaming or talking down to people. This is the number one rule in the thread and anyone who is obviously flaming another person will have a mod notified of his or her actions immediately.

2) Discussion of a stage will continue for at least a week in order to let all ideas and concerns be conveyed. Not everyone is always available. However if a stage looks like it needs more time for discussion I will extend the discussion length.

3) Taking Sasuke's idea, stages will be moving in "official SBR order" See Sasuke's post below for details.

4) Don't hold back any ideas. You never know what the next breakthrough might be inspired from.
Yes that is a rule.

Now let's move on to the format of the thread.

First of all I will list the page numbers (assuming ten posts per page) of each stage we have discussed. The format for this will simply be:

Stage Name
page start - page end

Simple, right?

Next, please don't ask off topic questions. This almost exclusively means posting about a stage we're not discussing.

Other than that anything is game. From character advantage/disadvantage to tips and tricks for controlling the stage and little stage specific glitches.

Especially character match-ups on each stage.
This is a big part of the discussion, but we should also be always looking for a way to improve our advantage or lessen our disadvantage on each stage as well.

After discussion of all stages is finished we will move on to specific discussion of whatever is requested by a poster.

Now then...

READY?

START!

Week one: Battlefield
Page(s) 1-4

Summary:
Battlefield is a decent stage for camping and also a good stage for recovering because of the easy to grab ledges. While camping with boomerangs and arrows benefits from the platforms, which make opponents a more open target, camping with bombs gets mixed results. The platforms on BF make for awkward throwing angles and distances when camping horizontally. However, because of the bombs' blast radius, camping vertically with bombs is very effective.


Week two: Final Destination
Page(s) 5-7

Summary:
Coming soon.

Week three: Smashville

[sasukebowser]

Before we start, lol @ you putting fancy decorating things in the title like me. =P


Anyway, use the SBR stage list for the order:

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Norfair



it's the best way, imho.

[Shadow Moth]

Good idea Sasuke.

Amended.

Anyway, I guess I'll kick things off.

Battlefield is a rather small stage that doesn't let us camp as effectively as on other stages. The platforms make getting an upward KO a little easier especially with uair but it should be a priority to remain on the ground at all times.

Our worst match-up here is probably either MK or Marth.

MK because he can use the platforms as a means of landing sooner so he's not immobile from a B move.

Marth because his sword is much longer than ours and reduces our space to camp even further. It also makes fighting from a platform even more difficult.

[NeoCrono]

I love Battle Field, just cause I can control so much. All my items allow me to dominate the stage if I play correctly. I believe that is our best neutral stage.

[demonictoonlink]

I say BF is our BEST neutral. I feel like it takes our spam to a whole 'nother level. Bomb camping on platforms, bomb drop mind games, Zair tricks, Demonic Zair (lol). All of these are so awesome. Great stage!

[Shadow Moth]

Well bomb drop mindgames are somewhat dulled by the platforms imo. Especially against shorter characters dropping bombs is really only effective if we iBomb.

[TWiNKatGC]

The platforms let us do simple bomb drops at a full hop. The sides of battlefield are very recovery friendly (you don't get stuck under them easily). They let us do the Zair trick, in which we don't tether. It's a decent size, and bombs can control the map. You can go higher for cover, but our Up Smash can reach the first platforms from the ground. It has decent sized ceilings. I think it's a great neutral stage.

Should we discuss how TL will do against all the characters on Battlefield? It's a huge amount of work, but we have a week...

[Shadow Moth]

Of course we should, that's half the agenda for each stage.

I already expressed some of my concern about the MK and Marth match-ups.

Sheik is known for doing particularly well on BF but I don't think that's so much due to our disadvantage as it is to her general advantage.

One character I think we would do particularly well against on BF is Link. Even though he out-ranges us with his sword he is easily hit through platforms and is much easier to gimp with smaller blastlines.

I can see us doing pretty well against Yoshi too because we can easily control such a small stage when facing him.

In addition to any advantages/disadvantages we have to characters on each stage we should discuss how we can use the stage or TL's regular strategies to get around the disadvantages.

[TWiNKatGC]

We should do that in alphabetical order then. I already made the list.

Bowser
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Game and Watch
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Metaknight
Ness
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Pokémon Trainer
R.O.B.
Samus
Sheik
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Yoshi
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus

Next to each name should be the words "advantage" or "disadvantage" (or other similar words) and a tiny paragraph explaining why.

[sasukebowser]

There really is no need, since you don't need to know how every character does on a stage. Just their best and worst ones are good to know.

[TWiNKatGC]

You never know.... some characters can be covered with a simple yes or no, but some will need summaries.

[sasukebowser]

It's not important at all.

[Corpsecreate]

Personally I like BF. One of the best things about it in my opinion is that toon links bomb blast radius can come really handy especially against tall characters. Most people dont realise that a bomb that hits a platform above them will have them get hit. Those that do realise it can be tricked through mindgames and Ibombing which makes it even more useful. Battlefield is also slightly higher up (I think?) than FD is so the chance of your bomb exploding while recovering is higher, and you dont have to worry about getting stuck underneath the lip like in FD.

The side of the wall is walkickable from the edge which gives us a nice little bair recovery and as already mentioned, its a good stage for uair kills. Our boomerage can hit people on platforms above us since they can be thrown diagonally while most other characters have only direct horizontal projectiles. Overall I would say that BF is probably TL's best neutral stage :)

[demonictoonlink]

Agreed. Also, not to be belittling of certain characters, but we really don't need to go into depth about things like TL vs Link on battlefield

[Shadow Moth]

I agree that unless the stage is actually beneficial for the other character (like enough to change the match-up) then discussing them on that stage isn't necessary when we have a clear advantage to begin with.

[demonictoonlink]

Yeah, that makes sense. If you need any help, PM me.

[sasukebowser]

Moth, please don't do thing you don't need to.
Realize that the information you're giving about the stages is good enough, and it doesn't matter about other characters at all. If it was important enough to be mentioned, it would be in the counterpick/ ban thread.
Since you'll only be playing like, 3/5 matches in a set, you don't need to know how they do on EVERY stage, just their 2 best and worse. I put a third in someones in case people have a problem with a particular stage.

[TWiNKatGC]

I've come to agreement with Sasuke, but I think 2 is too small. 5 is ideal.

[sasukebowser]

Two for counter pick
2 for ban
I usually throw in an extra 1 or 2
That's like, 4-6.

Perfect amount.

[Shadow Moth]

Well I agree with you but since we aren't discussing stages by character we won't really know for sure until we cover all the stages.

I don't plan on putting how each character does on a stage. I was planning on doing pretty much what you said.

Sorry if I worded it weirdly.

[~mjg~]

I like this thread. Amazing job ^_^

As stated before, BF really does play out well for toonlink

I play against my friend fino who mains olimar and he usually Uair stall on the ledge when hes hanging there to shuffle pikmin around. I found one match that when I set a bomb on the ground near the area that he executes the uair by, that the blast radius from the bomb stage spiked him. We later tested this out at lower percentages and with this done plus a FF'ing Bair is nearly flawless against an opponent that has stalls on the ledge of BF.

Anyways...tl can also Uair through the Ledge of BF which comes in handy when trying to come back on stage and it will send your opponent flying as well (obviously) Good reach and versatility with the boomerang as stated before. I just like this stage in general and it is a great starter IMO.

[fezzmaster]

What i like about this stage is that we can SHDA and if we mess up and do a full hop we can still double arrow by landing on the platforms and the bomb mind games you can pull of are pretty good.(even though i dont use them to much)

[Shadow Moth]

Well, on the subject of short hops, if you see your opponent jumping up to a platform you can full hop a zair and land on the platform doing a zair.

In addition you can jump off the ledge (while hanging) and that will also let you zair onto the lower platform.

[sasukebowser]

I like Battlefield because you can control the stage with projectiles and there are a lot of places you can quickdraw/ drop bombs and the like.

The only thing you need to remember is that you have to be sure to have enough space to do these things, and not just mindlessly do them for the sake of doing them.

[Shadow Moth]

Once again, I feel that dropping bombs is somewhat less effective because of the platforms. I think the platforms make boomerangs more effective however.

[copacetic]

I enjoy dropping through the platform and QD'ing to start off a match. For some reason everyone always drops down and expects to be safe, plus the word "GO!" gives us a nice nintendogs for cover.

And BF makes things kinda easy to just jump around and toss bombs down.

[Shadow Moth]

I usually drop down and bomb pull if it looks like my opponent is going to drop down. Otherwise I shoot an arrow.

[DCStyle]

I usually dash off the platform and zair. o_O

[TLMSheikant]

I usually drop down and throw a rang angled to where I see the opponent go.

[~mjg~]

I usually dash off the platform and zair. o_O

Thats EXACTLY what i do...then i will turn around and try to get a Bair Chain Started immediately.

I wont do that against Samus mains however because they will just outrange us with their zair

[TLMSheikant]

I like battlefield a lot. It makes bombing from above a lot better.

[TWiNKatGC]

Battlefield = The best bombs map, IMO.

[Shadow Moth]

Please explain this. It still looks like it can only handicap your bomb game from my PoV.

[copacetic]

you can throw the bombs between the platforms and the blast radius is enough to cover most of the ground space. If you hit a platform and your opponent is fairly tall, it will hit them through the platform. And with the top platform, it's very easy to just full hop from there and toss bombs down and stay out of range of most attacks, which forces your opponent to either jump up to you and get hit by bombs, or stay away and hide and not harm you while still occasionally getting hit.

It basically allows a type of vertical camping, since not many characters can safely attack you from the ground. The platforms do more to keep us in the air away from attacks than give them cover.

[TWiNKatGC]

Please explain this. It still looks like it can only handicap your bomb game from my PoV.

The thing is that every non-stage specific bomb AT can be done at Battlefield. The bombs can hit through the platforms, drop bombs through platforms, SHDB with ease, and the platforms are at the perfect height for C4ing.

I do understand what you mean though. Sometimes, the platforms can get in the way of your bombs and force you to throw at akward angles, which is troublesome.

[BRLNK88]

When I'm in a particularly "offensive mood" Battlefield is great. I get in my opponent's grill and bair rape them. Otherwise though I prefer Smashville, maybe FD.
Someone mentioned Sheik earlier, I'll elaborate on that. When I face my friend's Sheik (he's beast with her DACUS) on stages like YI, he just gets in my face and doesn't let me retaliate.
On Smashville though, I can fling arrows, bombs and the boomerang to force him to approach, and once he does, create a little more space and counter with nair or bair. You also have more time to avoid the DACUS.
Overall, platforms are kinda annoying. If u miss uair or dair, there's lag, and your opponent has a chance for a free hit.

[TLMSheikant]

Moth i think its time for week2: insert stage name here. :P I want delfino plaza. sigh i love this stage.

[sasukebowser]

It's been like, 2-3 days, hasn't it? xD

[TLMSheikant]

Its been a whole week now :P. Check the OP it says 6-21-2009 and today its 6-28-2009. No rush tho. :)

[NeoCrono]

Moth i think its time for week2: insert stage name here. :P I want delfino plaza. sigh i love this stage.

God delfino is such a great stage, but we will probably end up talking about anther neutral like FD or Yoshi.
Did we pretty much covered everything we needed to cover on BF Sasuke?