Toon Link’s Mix-Up Game. (Yes, this deserves its own thread)

[demonictoonlink]

I’ll start with Short-Hop, then Full-Hop, Platform, Edge, then random others. Even if I think it’s stupid, if there’s a possible use, I will include. Come to this thread to troll me, Smith. Feel free to add ideas. I’ll keep updating this as time goes on if it receives any attention, which it really should…


Short Hop Section:



+Fast-Fall Arrow Cancel

Short-Hop, fast-fall, and then land in an arrow-cancel. Simple as that…This is recommended after a short-hopped B-Air.


+Double Arrow (SHDA)

Short-Hop and instantly shoot an arrow. Once that arrow is fired, shoot another, landing in an arrow cancel. This is one of Tink’s best spam techniques. LEARN IT. It’s great for starting the match or when you just have some breathing room.



+Bomb-Pull Arrow

Short-Hop and pull out a bomb. Land in an arrow cancel. This is my all time favorite spam technique. The timing is simple and the payoff is great. The arrow should create some space and rack up damage while covering your bomb pull. You get an arrow out and a bomb at your disposal. Double True!



+Bomb-Pull Bomb-Throw

Short hop, pull a bomb and throw it. Pretty frickin’ simple… This is really just preference. It’s a good thing to throw in occasionally in play of SHBA. This is especially true if you would end the arrow cancel without enough room to go unpunished.



+Bomb-Throw Arrow

With a bomb in hand, short hop, throw the bomb, and land in an arrow cancel. This can be fast-falled. This is a pretty useful tech. It’s quick, gets two projectiles out, and it should create some openings. I like this after a Zair with a bomb in hand.



+Bomb-Pull C4 (SHBD)

Short hop, pull a bomb, and drop it on the ground resting. The potential of this tech is in no way obvious, but can definitely be perfected to aid your game. The bomb absorbs a lot of other projectiles and you can push it with D-Air. Try to work it in.



+Boomerang Bomb-Throw

With a bomb, short hop and throw your boomerang, then your bomb. Just another variation of ****…I prefer it to techs landing in QD because there’s no ending lag.



+Double-Bomb (SHDB)

I’m just going to copy and paste Fox’s description if he’s cool with that.



+Bomb-Drop Double-Arrow (SHDAD)

Same as above.




Full Hop Section:



+Charged Double-Arrow

Simply full hop, charge an arrow to a certain point, fire, and land in an arrow cancel. Be creative on where to do it, but I find it works great on an off-stage Snake.



+Bomb-Pull Bomb-Throw Arrow

As you hold jump for a full hop, input commands for bomb pull, bomb throw, and then arrow. The timing for this is about the difficulty of SHDA. Keep in mind you might have to buffer moves slightly.
I would honestly say this is the most useful/ practical of the full hops. It allows for two projectiles to come out without previously holding a bomb.



Bomb-Throw Double-Arrow

Start with a bomb in your hand. Full hop and immediately throw the bomb. Next, input arrow and then another arrow. The result will be three projectiles coming out at once, creating a large area of damage zone. This also helps to create good openings. The downside is that it takes like 2-3 seconds...
The only time I can see this working is when an opponent is knocked off the stage. Still, with characters you should not follow of the stage (MK...) this provides a great damage racking tool and sets up well for a F-Air.



Arrow Bomb-Throw Arrow

Start with a bomb in your hand. Full hop and input arrow command immediately. Next, throw the bomb and land in an arrow cancel. The result will also be 3 projectiles. This also takes like two to three seconds. This is kind of cool because of the odd order of **** flying. The only useful thing of this is that it makes a really weird patter for opponents to deal with.


Boomerang Bomb-Throw Arrow

Start with bomb in hand, full hop, throw 'rang, bomb, then land in Arrow cancel. The timing for this is a little harder that the other.
Though kind of stupid seeming, this creates a LOT of openings. Having three different projectiles out at once in on jump works REALLY well.


Bomb-Throw Bomb-pull Arrow

Start with bomb in hand, full hop, throw bomb, pull another bomb, arrow cancel or boomerang. Pretty simple timing wise... Not much else to say here...
This one is useful if you want to end you spam chain with another projectile in hand. I recommend this if your opponent will be close by the time you land.




Platform Section:


+C4

While jumping up to or dropping down from a platform, drop a bomb so it softly lands on it. This creates...well...you know...and can turn into platform bombing... This also is needed for the platform SHDB. This is a great mindgame that can amount to much more.


+Full-Hop Double-Arrow

Full hop and shoot two arrows...If done right, you should be able to charge the first on a little. Just like SHDA but onto a platform.


+Full-Hop Bomb-Pull Arrow

Full hop while pulling a bomb and land in an arrow cancel. Exact same as short hopping and pull a bomb, landing in an arrow cancel, but onto a platform. This actually puts TL in an AMAZING position on some stages, like battlefield. You can start aerial bomb camping, light throw to hit below, platform bomb...Be creative ****-shelves.


+Full-Hop Bomb-Pull Bomb-Throw

Full hop while pulling a bomb then throw it, landing on the platform. Exact same as the short hop variation, but onto a platform.


+Full-Hop Boomerang Arrow

Full hop while throwing your boomerang. Land on the platform with an arrow cancel. This is interesting because you can't do this from a short hop. (A tink can dream though...) This is borderline broken (not really) if done right on Battlefield.


+Full-Hop C4 D-Air (Platform Bombing)

Full hop with a bomb, C4 on the way up, then dair. The result should be the bomb sliding off the platform. I am no expert on this so I will have someone else mention uses.




Edge Section: coming soon





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Others Section: coming soon


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I’m not going to bother filling these out yet until people show they like this idea of a thread. I don’t want to do too much more and then have this die in one week…

[SuSa]

Edge:
I'm sure you know the edge bomb-pull > throw, and the c4 planting and I think you can even double bomb on the ledge <_<

Actually it's a pretty neat idea.. but reminds me of the giant list of AT's.... I'd be more specfic for each mixup. Like which matchup it's especially helpful in, etc.

[demonictoonlink]

Thanks a lot, SuSa ^^
Well, I've gotten at least one important post, so I will finish at least the platform section for now with what it has.

[SuSa]

I beg of you to use any color besides red. I see enough red as it is *looks at my name* it gets rather annoying.

Also on the skin I use, it's rather harsh on my eyes. :/

Sorry to ***** over something so stupid after you spent all the time adding the BBCode... and I understand if you don't want to change it... I just.. probably won't drop by this thread often :x

(I'll be messing with hex codes to find one that is bold, but not hurting my eyes bold...)
Testing
Testing
Testing < I like that one (CC00CC)
Testing
Testing

[demonictoonlink]

I re-did it, but my internet shut off...re-doing again...

Better?

[DCStyle]

Has anyone tried a short hop arrow to ff up b? Will it work?

Just a thought that came to my mind from this thread.

[Shadow Moth]

If it's hex codes you want, screw around with this to find a few more: http://web.forret.com/tools/rgb_gradient.asp (http://web.forret.com/tools/rgb_gradient.asp)

Personally I think my azure (#007fff) stands out pretty well. So does the site's Deep Sky Blue (my link color).

Anyways I think this thread is a great idea. We always talk about spacing and getting the kill and all that other crap but it's been months since our last mixup discussion.

[demonictoonlink]

I have no idea what you're talking about, DC...lol
Um...like a ground Up-B? So like, arrow hits and then we catch them in it?

Also...I have NO idea how to work codes and ****...I manually went through and changed every place that said red to something like...dark orchid?

[SuSa]

That purple is sexy, thank you very much DTL. =] If you need anything for the thread, let me know and I'll try to get you it.

Also why rather impractical, don't you guys have a full-hop triple arrow or partially charged arrow > arrow > arrow cancel? (I'd see no reason at all to use this except for maybe to gimp piss poor recoveries aka: Link) but I'd post it just so no one suggests it. xD

@Shadow Moth, I'm a web developer. I mess with hex to memorize more and more (I don't fully understand it because I'm pretty lazy and normally use a site rather then put the effort in) so playing with random hex is fun for me. lol

color="#CCEEFF" (with the [] around it) is how I do my font color. CC00CC is what I suggested, but the purple you are using now is nice.

[Shadow Moth]

I didn't even know you could use other letters, SuSa. I was posting that for DTL. It's clear you know more than me if you know enough to use more than F and numbers.

My favorite mixup tech is probably 'rang to SH nair to QD.

I usually jump toss the boomerang so I'm not sure if this works on the ground.

[SuSa]

Also I think there are a few more intersting bomb tactics you missed. like.. grounded things.. /jump cancel throw


Hehe =]

0-9, A-F

0 = Black/Darker
F = White/Lighter

I still have yet to figure out what 1-E do really...

I'm pretty sure it's

RRGGBB
so...
0f0f0f = light+dark red/green/blue = dark grey

Here is what 0f0f0f looks like:
this is 0f0f0f
this is f0f0f0 and as you can see, they are... close to opposites (if not exact opposites)

[Shadow Moth]

playing with hex is fun anyway. I could probably look this stuff up on Wikipedia though. >_>

Do mods ever infract themselves for spam?

...

Do mods infract anyone for spam?

On topic: Does zair count as a mixup or part of mixup sequences?
It probably should if used for gimping.

[sasukebowser]

Projectiles:
-Well the standard thing I see with a reverse JC bomb throw is a SHDA followed afterwords. Thats not bad at all, but it becomes predictable. SHDAs in general become predictable. Not that it is a bade tactic at all, but its just too predictable at this point. Rather then shoot 2 arrows with the same consistency (making it VERY easy to perfect shield), why not just SH, charge an arrow, and shoot it just as you land? Now this does a few things. Your opponent will be waiting for the first arrow when you jump up and start pulling back on the bow. The charging of the bow will throw them off and mess up their timing. Since a charged arrow travels faster, their reaction time should be limited. In terms of damage, 2 arrows in a SHDA do ~8 damage. A charged one does 7~8, depending on how good you timing is (basically, if you release the arrow just as you land, like the second arrow in a SHDA, it will do 8 damage). Also, something about doing this makes the arrow charge a significant amount when your about to land when shooting it (causing the 1 extra damage). You also don't have to be limited to shooting it just as you land, just shoot it at any point you want to. Now you opponent doesn't only have to worry about (perfect) shielding the two arrows, but also arrow velocity and adjust their reaction time. Making the opponent have to worry about you more is going to really help Toon Link's game.

-Thechene's thread game me this idea: When you SHDA, or SH Nair (stuff like that) while on a platform, our totally exposed if they approach from underneath/ at a lower horizontal angle. Shooting an arrow isn't going to do anything. You just have time for the start of the Zair to come out. Since the Zair auto cancels, its useless to guard you in this situation. So instead, after you shoot the first arrow (or whatever your doing), hold down during/before a Zair. It will allow you to fall through the platform so the Zair extends, allowing you some more safety.

-Lets say your playing a DDD, or someone that you always needs a bomb out for. You just reverse JC threw a bomb, now what? Okay you short hop, shoot the first arrow of a SHDA, and then jump while pulling out a bomb. Then continue and do whatever. Now this can kind of be twisted around for the better. If you have a bomb in your hand, short hop, shoot an arrow, and JC throw the bomb. This was taking from Lobos' idea in the back room.

-When your holding a bomb, and your Zairing, it usually follows up with throwing the bomb forewords. Then the wtfhaxbbq VietG style bomb to Usmash. But if they're not at killing percentages, then don't waste the Usmash. And if they know the bombs coming, they're going to shield. Without the ability to grab when holing a bomb (...curse you Brawl), we are limited here. If your at this level, you and your opponent both know your not going to Usmash IF you throw that bomb. So your sorta of forced into a retreating position. Therefore, Zair, retreat would make sense, no? So what you do is Zair, dash the other way and JS throw as soon as you can. It should be one fluent motion. Their reaction to you turning around and retreating will cause them to chase you, resulting in a bomb to the face.

-Sometimes (and for some characters specifically) opponents will try to jump over your SHDA. Now to prevent this, jump, shoot and arrow, then jump again just as your about to land and shoot another arrow as going upwards. You can also boomerang or throw a bomb.

-When your running away with a bomb, a reverse JC throw is pretty predictable. Your opponent just has to look for when you turn around. To throw them off, when your turning around, just let the animation continue, and JC throw at the beginning of your animation of running towards them.

-When a boomerang is returning to you, please please please take advantage of it. Don't use a move that has low hit stun and no follow up (as in no arrows, bombs). This may be one of the very few times in the game you have a better chance to grab. If they shield, you grab them. If they attack you, you get those "super armor" grab frames and get the grab. If they Spot dodge, the grab will last long enough to get them (please learn the timing for this, its very useful). Also, if your timing is precise, you can get most moves in without getting punished. DTILT! Yes, really. It has cancel-able frames, so you can Dtilt, let the boomerang come back, and Dtilt, all in succession. Its not limited to that though. You can do almost whatever you want, AS LONG AS YOU LEARN THE TIMING.

[demonictoonlink]

Eh...I dunno about Zair...Also, finally done with colors...

edit: Sasuke posted during mine...reading now ^^

edit again: That's great stuff ^^ Not sure how to include it yet though...

[SuSa]

playing with hex is fun anyway. I could probably look this stuff up on Wikipedia though. >_>

Do mods ever infract themselves for spam?

...

Do mods infract anyone for spam?

On topic: Does zair count as a mixup or part of mixup sequences?
It probably should if used for gimping.

I occasionally infract for spam. I prefer to give verbal warnings and tell them to take it to the social thread, if they don't have a social thread I make one...

Also I do think we should include zair.

[Hyro]

I just don't feel everything toon link can possibly do should be...listed.

But whatever. The abbreviations should be removed though. Everything doesn't needa be said in 4 letters. And a SHC4 is actually called a short hop bomb drop.

And "This is usually a little flashier the practical, but eh… "

toooootally your opinion. It's insanely useful.

[demonictoonlink]

Kk...I'll remove the 4 letter stuff...but...
I dunno about the usefulness... I'll think about it some more...

[sasukebowser]

Don't say its useful/ useless.
Just list stuff and let people figure it out by themselves.

[SuSa]

Or at least give instances when it would be useful. (If you can't think of any, let people tell you) they can debate their opinion on it if people object...

[demonictoonlink]

I am not going to remove useful...If I KNOW something is useful, I will state it. However, you are right in saying that I should remove useless. I don't care about other peoples' styles are; If you add short hop bomb pull arrow to your game, it WILL help.

[Shadow Moth]

I am not going to remove useful...If I KNOW something is useful, I will state it. However, you are right in saying that I should remove useless. I don't care about other peoples' styles are; If you add short hop bomb pull arrow to your game, it WILL help.

Well.. I think that threads should be kept as objective as possible. We should only define something subjectively if the majority of the TL community agrees on a sole conclusion. In the example you used, I believe we have already determined it's usefulness however, unless the mixup in question is in a similar circumstance, I advise staying away from opinions.

[demonictoonlink]

Edited. If anyone has any specific objections, please let me know.

[sasukebowser]

If you add ANYTHING yto your game, it will help.

You're obviously not understanding why you shouldn't put usefulness.

[demonictoonlink]

You honestly don't believe certain things should be stressed though?
It seems much better for someone to learn the basics of things like SHDA than platform bombing...

[Shadow Moth]

Well if people try things out for themselves and what they try works does it matter that they're not using something else in the same way?

The point here is that not everyone sees things the same way you do and therefore no one plays the same way as you. You can't really decide ahead of time what someone will or will not find useful.

[demonictoonlink]

Alright...Understood.
Usefulness will be removed...
I disagree with this, but it really isn't my place to...

[Power of Slash]

If you learn the timing of a returning boomerang, it could help you with so much stuff.

One thing in particular I really like doing is Zairing on time with the returning rang. The timing is just something I picked up over time, but it helps sooo much.

If both the Zair and Rang hit, that's pretty much a given Usmash right there. This is how I get most of my kills.

If the Zair gets Shielded, your rang should give you enough cover to either A) get out of there, or B) bait the punish which usually ends up in the form of your opponent grabbing you, and react when the rang hits them. or C) a grab for you.

Like it's hard to cover but returning boomerangs should seriously be considered as part of this mix-ups thread.