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View Full Version : Flok's Mr.Game & Watch guide, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE TOP TIER!


Flok
03-05-2004, 05:00 PM
*Splash* Oil Panic hits it's target, *Boom* Parachute flies open, *KABOOM* Forward Smash hits! No one can be so bizar like Mr. Game & Watch.

And no one has to be so afraid of Mr. Game & Watch to run away, wouldn't you? Of course not, because you have no time to run away from him. Why? Because he kicks ***

In general, G&W is know as one of the bottom tier because of his lag in some moves and because he's very light. In my eyes G&W is a counter vs Fox/Sheik. You will slowly learn more why he is a counter to those two especially. Now let me begin to say what's the most important thing to know:
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G&W's Best and Worse moves
BEST
Forward Smash: IMO the best Forward Smash in the game. There is almost no recovery time unlike Marth's Forward Smash and it sticks out and stays all the way until the end, oh yeah, it also HURTS because of it's insane knock power. It flies you up very high at higher percents and kills at usually 90/100/110% vs characters like Luigi, Peach, Fox, Sheik and no they won't recover that easily unlike vs other Forward Smashes.

Forward Arial in air: This cake/shoebag/cementstone/ can be used offensively and defensively. Short hopping with it is a must and needs to be L-cancelled of course in order for it to be effective. Don't be afraid to use this for edgeguarding. A decent move and possible to abuse the whole match. AKA as the "Get the **** away from me" move.

Down Arial in air: This thing rules because it hits twice. Once in the air and once on the ground. Getting shieldgrabbed is almost impossible because of this. And this thing also has an evil range but average damage.

Down tilt: The best CC move and one of the moves that's pretty known around here when talking about G&W. Very useful after using the Down Arial in air. Also, a good strategy is to abuse this move while running(not wavedashing), it begins instantly when stopping the running.

Up tilt: G&W's second "Get the **** away from me" move and one of G&W's good "hidden" ones. This thing stops ANYTHING from up the air and can help if you want to Parachute your enemy. It's not good for comboing characters though.

Neutral Arial in air Another move pretty known around here and for a good reason: it's G&W's best edgeguarder move. You just Forward Arial'ed your opponent away and he's trying to recover? Simply fly in it and Parachute away! Missing with this move is almost impossible because of it's enormous size. Most of the time this move can be used after using any of G&W's throws as well btw, even at higher percents.

Up B Have you ever stood silent and looked at G&W's recovery? It's INSANE, he can comeback very easy. This thing also can COMBO on stages like Battlefield and other Battlefield clones because your opponent won't have a chance to hit you most of the time with it. I KO'ed even someone with this move once by hitting him all the way up.

WORSE
Down B: Impossible to use in a serious tournament match, only if you're lucky to get a big stage and either pokemons or a projectile spamming enemy.

Up Smash: Only useful when combo'ing someone at the beginning. But if it hits, it hits hard.

Neutral A: The move I never use besides Oil Panic, G&W doesn't need this move.

NEUTRAL ONE LINERS
Neutral B: "Get the **** away from me" number three.
Back Arial in air: A simple poor combo move.
Forward B: Are you feeling lucky?
Down Smash:Edgeguarder move.
Forward A: "Get the **** away from me" number four, better to use Forward Smash instead.
Up Arial in air: G&W's fastest arial move, decent combo move and annoying.
Dash Attack: Like most dash attacks, decent knock power but it's always risky to use dash attacks.
G&W's grabs: Basically all of them end with either a parachute or a forward arial in air.
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Countering Fox/Sheik

The moment you've all been waiting for. Wavedashing is REQUIRED to fight the top tier and there should be almost no reason to start ROLLING/GROUND DODGING with G&W, because that kills him. Arial Dodge is required as well.

VS FOX

Usually Fox shoots some lasers at the start of the match, duck when he does so. Fox likes to do cheap Reflector Spikes and abusing the Up Smash/ Up Arial in air. Boy he's gonna get suprised it's not possible to do it easily on G&W. Here's a neat combo if you get the chance to grab Fox at low percents: Grab, Up Throw, Up Smash, Down Smash then try to time the Forward Smash right or use a Forward Arial in air. Fox cannot hit you with his Up Arial because of your Down Arial in air, keep this in mind. Also, the running Down tilt abuse strat works good on Fox but try to mix it with some wavedashes as well. If Reflector Spiked, simply use your Up B at the right moment so that you recover at the edge and hang on it. Fox's Forward Smash is as strong as G&W's Down Tilt, if facing an abusing Fox Forward Smasher, CC his *** with the Down tilt. Fox is VERY WEAK vs the Parachute, don't be afraid to use it in combat or when throwing Fox. Now the best thing comes, vs Fox when he recovers, you can fly so easily with the parachute into him it's ridiculous because Fox jumps high at his second jump. Forward Smash or Forward Arial in air him if he uses Forward B. If you're still not feeling safe enough , try abusing the short hopping Forward Arial in air vs Fox. One last thing, if you're in the lead with the stockes, try to grab Fox, downthrow him, turn around and use the Forward B, if it's 9, congratulations, you will have a huge advantage over him because he will get edgehogged then(by you ;)).

VS SHEIK

A little harder because G&W can die from Sheik's Forward Arial in air when standing next to the edge. If I remember correctly, Sheik's needles can be ducked. Sheik players like to abuse the dash attack because it's the fastest one in the game. Down Tilting usually stops them using it because the Down Tilt stays longer than they might think. Short hopping Forward Arial in air will be needed a lot more vs Sheik. Sheik will be easier to use the parachute on in combos but will be harder to kill when edgeguaring. Don't bother edgeguarding her, instead try to edgehog or kill her with the Forward Smash at higher percents. Especially the Forward throw is good vs Sheik because it lets you land a Parachute on her perfectly. Remember to use the Down Arial in air if she's combo'ing you with the Up Arial and try to use the Up Tilt when she's above you. Another thing Sheik players like to do is abusing the Down Smash, yes even this evil Smash can be stopped by G&W's Down Tilt so try to use it when they are Down Smashing again.
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End of the guide

I would like to thank myself for typing this guide out and thanks for you guys as well for reading this guide. If you still don't believe that G&W can counter some Top Tier, ask The_Doug. He was basically shocked by G&W's usefullnes when I fought him at DT7. ;)

One more thing, DO NOT USE G&W VS MARTH OR GANONDORF BECAUSE THEY COUNTER HIM. Ok vs Marth it's still possibe but be extra careful when facing Ganondorf with G&W.

See ya around. This was my second guide for Smashboards.

metalazo
03-05-2004, 05:06 PM
Nice flok.
Maybe i am going to play GM :P

VarietyBarrage
03-05-2004, 09:46 PM
for vs sheik you need to put getting down throw combo into some ftilt into fairial death. i dont see how g&w counters him when such an effective down throw combo works on him.

Ms. Pac-Master
03-05-2004, 10:12 PM
Verrrrrrrry, verrrrrrrrry nice guide! One thing though:

The Neutral A is pretty useful IMO. Its sets the enemy up for a Manhole or a Chef move. The pan will smack them away and they will possibly get hit by the sausages too.

Fear the Skillet! :demon:

Emacee
03-05-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by VarietyBarrage
for vs sheik you need to put getting down throw combo into some ftilt into fairial death. i dont see how g&w counters him when such an effective down throw combo works on him.

Try to DI as much as possible. Just because shiek has a good grab combo doesn't mean all is lost for the liquid crystal hero.

Flok, as a G&W user myself, you are my hero. To quote Kubuu, "Mr. Game&Watch is a smooth mother ******."

Slayer Link
03-06-2004, 05:05 AM
Quite small but nevertheless a very good guide. I will add you to my collection of guides, Flok. Just try to expand the guide a little more. Adding a few stuff like who counters G&W, his (dis)advantages etc.

The_Doug
03-06-2004, 04:10 PM
Aha! I knew this guide was in the making ever since DT7. G&W is one mean prioritized machine, trust me, trust Flok!... oh how I remember playing G&W like a noob back about two years ago.

Strong statement to say G&W is a counter to Fox and Sheik. I still disagree with the Sheik part but Fox? I don't play Fox, but it's an interesting thought :P Flok I'm surprised you failed to mention Falco...

I remember trying multiple characters to Flok's G&W after DT7 and losing quite a lot, hehe. Marth I'd have to say has a definitely advantage still because of the sword, and I didn't try Ganon. I consider my Falco pretty top notch, and I was baffled with this matchup! Just seemed that most of my combos were put to shame, and I was dying at low low percents due to killer edge guarding and that *********************** parachute.

Ok that's enough from me. Thumbs up to Mr. G&W, definitely not in the same tier as Pichu and Bowser. Definitely not.

Flok
03-06-2004, 04:38 PM
Why do you disagree with the fact G&W counters Sheik so good? Give it a try next time you're fighting a Sheik with G&W, you will be suprised. And about Falco I didn't mention, I believe it's the short hopping lasers that kills G&W, but maybe i'm wrong and that G&W counters Falco just as good as Fox.

With Ganondorf, simply abuse the Forward Arial in air. It hurts too much vs G&W.

With Marth, his evil Down Tilt :P, oh boy I remember Doug saying "my sword is longer than your down tilt", very annoying. Oh btw I think G&W also has a good chance in the air vs Marth.

Maybe i'll expand this guide just like my other one.

Pikapower
03-06-2004, 04:48 PM
nice guide flok i remember playing my mario vs ur g&w on dt7 it was a horrible 2 c how my mario was distroyed.
only with marth i was able 2 kill ur g&w

The_Doug
03-06-2004, 09:52 PM
"In my eyes G&W is a counter vs Fox/Sheik."

-G&W can't edge guard Sheik well. Sheik can edge guard G&W very well.
-Sheik has needles and aerial needles to beat a defensive G&W.
-G&W can't CC Sheik's tilt past a low percent + f-air to edge guard.
-US version only: Sheik chain throw G&W to 60%.
PAL version: Sheik can still do nasty throw combos.

Flok did you play against Danny's Sheik much? I'd like to see that match...


As for Falco lasers... I've got one word for you. BUCKET!!!!

Kirby_M@ster
03-07-2004, 06:35 AM
Great Guide Flok! I will put it to good use.:)

Dark Schneider
03-07-2004, 03:57 PM
Another awesome character guide, Way to go Flok!. I'll put this to some use. I picked up G&W last night against my friends and found out that i was doing pretty well. I messes up his Fox by using the Manhole as an edgeguard tech. I see that it can really mess up thier recovery. And there might be a way to edgeguard sheik's recovery. If the manhole is timed correctly.

VarietyBarrage
03-08-2004, 09:05 PM
Try to DI as much as possible

even with DI it isnt enough to get out of the throw combos. when sheik sees that she can't throw you again a ftilts into fairials would be the end of the G&W.

MrSilver
03-08-2004, 09:50 PM
Hehe, isn't this a wonderfull little misunderstanding. You see, Flok is Dutch, and because of that he plays the PAL version. In the PAL version they changed Sheik's down throw so she can hardly chain throw at all. So in the PAL version Flok is right, you can get out of it. Wether you can also get out in the US version I don't know. I just figured I should clear that misunderstanding before this entire thread becomes a debate about Sheiks ability to chain throw Mr. Game & Watch.

Yeroc
03-09-2004, 10:09 AM
Hey Doug (and I suppose MrSilver too, since you've been to the States), what other changes are there in PAL? Sheik's d-throw is one, I understand Marth's spike was changed to a meteor and it's vectoring was reworked, and something about Link's up-B not having the same hit properties as in NTSC. Are there any other differences?

Also, nice guide Flok. I don't play any truly good GW players, but I'll have to keep these things in mind if I ever play one. ;)

Flok
03-09-2004, 05:08 PM
Truly annoying that the PAL and NTSC versions are so different.. Mind if I lend your NTSC SSBM version for a while Zteve? ;)

Thanks for the comments so far! A better step towards perfection about a character indeed( Mario guide seriously is old lol) if I say so myself.

SabreAnt
03-10-2004, 07:37 AM
This is how good I think this guide is: After considering G&W the 20-25th worst character in the game, I am considering to practice with him to catch my biggest rivals (Fox, Falco, Sheik fans) off guard majorly. A most interesting concept. I suppose I never took the time with him because he looks so slow and stupid most of the time. We'll see how things turn out.

The_Doug
03-10-2004, 11:54 AM
Flok - Sorry to spam your guide.. could be off topic a bit below. I have a question though for G&W: Is it possible to combo his down-B move?

Mr. Silver - Could you find a link to the old thread about PAL version changes? I tried digging with no luck.

Yeroc - Me or Mr. Silver really need to stop being lazy and make a new post with all or most of the changes from the US to PAL Versions ;) Top four most important changes IMO are:

1) Marth's weight is less and now about equal to Kirby.

2) Yoshi's weight is more now and about equal to DK.

3) Falco's spike (d-aerial) has different properties. In a nutshell, he has a sweet spot and needs to hit with the tip of his feet or it won't spike. If he doesn't sweet spot, the move hits outwards at an odd angle. (And I still laugh everytime I see it)

4) Sheik's chain throws are hardly effective anymore. The properties of her d-throw make it so characters can now DI a lot further left or right.

Ms. Pac-Master
03-10-2004, 12:58 PM
Thumbs up to Mr. G&W, definitely not in the same tier as Pichu and Bowser. Definitely not.

I agree. I also posted this in my G&W strategy topic.

Pichu and Bowser seem to have less uses than Watch. Bowser falls like lead, cant combo, slow and is also a huge target. Pichu is just a Pikachu with less range and self shocking.

As soon as I read this guide, I have been wondering if G&W was put on the tiers list a little too low. There is a chance that he could be ranked higher than Mewtwo, or at least in the Low tier group instead of the Bottom tier.

Thanks Flok! You got me thinking! :)

Edit: If anyone has the time... can you guys post in my G&W topic? I am running out of strategies... :(

MrSilver
03-10-2004, 01:40 PM
Do you mean this thread (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22745)? Heh, that things is from even before TG 4, I hadn't even played the US version yet. Maybe I should revive that idea of trying to figure out all the differences. But I'm going to wait with that until I get my hands on a US Cube. Steve said I could borrow his (Sorry Flok, beat you to it ;) )

SabreAnt
03-12-2004, 05:34 AM
Bowser falls like lead, cant combo, slow and is also a huge target

Hes slow and is huge. But most certainly doesnt fall fast and he can combo pretty well sometimes. Take that back! :)

I tried G&W vs my friends seriously the other day and he worked pretty good for a firsttimer (at trying). They were caught off guard just as I had hoped. I attritube the success to a lot of what I read here.

James Cruise
03-12-2004, 11:30 AM
I know, this has been said a million times, but great strat guide! I've been a too lazy to stray away from fox/falco. I'm kinda surprised to see how some of G&W moves work. Half of them just confused the crap out of me. You may want to add a few tidbits about his wavedash in comparison with other characters and also level advantages. Not many people have tapped into G&W and have actually made a guide for him. You could probably make this guide almost as long Garde's Link guide. LOL. I'm just glad to see that the "Lower Tier" characters get some recognition for once. And maybe eventually get that stupid tier list abolished. LOL. Maybe I'm hoping for too much.

Yeroc
03-12-2004, 12:48 PM
LOL. I'm just glad to see that the "Lower Tier" characters get some recognition for once. And maybe eventually get that insightful yet outdated tier list corrected. LOL.Fixed it for ya. ;)

NESSBOUNDER
03-13-2004, 09:38 PM
Gannondorf? That's when you use the uber annoying G&W defensive manuevre known as the turtledance.
There is not Much Gannon can do to you if you can sucessfully pull this technique off every time he gets behind you.

And about the bug spray. If you quickly tap the button three times and then hold R, the resulting three-spray combo has less lag than normal and he can shield a hit.

Flok
07-08-2004, 07:42 PM
Yeah, could someone move this topic to the Character Specific room? Would be nice, since I might expand on this guide soon.

I'm gonna have to use the Turtledance strategy for once, never tried it out good.

Ratking1234
07-13-2004, 04:19 AM
Nice guide, Makes me wanna turn on my cube and start playing a little with GW. Thanks

Who Am I???
07-14-2004, 08:40 PM
Nice guide. Ive also thought GeeDubya as being one of the worst characters in melee. Now I know he has a chance of fighting the top tiers.

Cerebrate
07-29-2004, 09:31 PM
Does anyone know how to L-cancel, i.e. making it so that G&W can move immediately after doing an aerial and hitting the ground?

footnbaseball
07-30-2004, 11:12 AM
you hit L before you hit the ground. doesnt work for uair though

Stormin' Mormon
08-19-2004, 09:04 PM
Nice Guide.
BTW, what's the turtle dance?

Crash
09-18-2004, 08:44 AM
something interesting, i'm pretty sure GW's frying pan, if they actually touch it, spikes. and i know it does fire damage.

Edit: after some experimentation, got a couple new things to add, the frying pan does indeed spike, down forward at about -30 degrees, but its so weak its barely worth doing. also even though it looks like the f air stays out a while, the second part of it is weak, hit with it when it first comes out. lastly, im pretty sure turtle (b air) can't be L canceled

Emacee
09-18-2004, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Crash
something interesting, i'm pretty sure GW's frying pan, if they actually touch it, spikes. and i know it does fire damage.

It's a semi-spike and if you time it correctly you can jump out and pan spike someone that is recovering. The fact that the pan leaves a firey effect is irrelevant.