Fox Vs. Fox

[f5o0x]

i personally think that one of the best match ups in a tournament could possibly be a fox on fox battle. The reason is because fox is just so fast that he can do some really good combos. So most of the time a fox on fox battle is full of speed and a crap load of combos. Some of the stuff these peopld do with a fox on fox are amazing.

[RockCrock]

Fox vs Fox matches are some of the fastest matches that can take place... A simple shine after the other fox has mid-aried, will kill quite often.

I was doing some Fox vs Fox dittos today with my friend QDVS. After a whole bunch of matches, my hands hurt! I usually play a very laid back Fox... not requiing extreme speed and constant attacks. (Althoguh I am capable) QDVS made me really use Fox to his full potential. With great speed and percision.

Fox vs Fox is awesome.

[f5o0x]

ya i totally agree with u. But i never knew there were that many fox players ou there. most of the time u use fox laid back because he is so fast. but against a worthy opponent ur fingers do start to hurt.

[choknater]

Try finding the Azen vs. Chillindude match, the Fox ditto. (The background music is System of A Down's I-E-A-I-A-I-O.) That's the best match I have ever seen. Azen is just way too fast.

[Glide]

Fox Ditto = the height of drama. I don't think there's anything quite so entertaining, or suspenseful to watch if the two are equally matched.

[RockCrock]

Try finding the Azen vs. Chillindude match, the Fox ditto. (The background music is System of A Down's I-E-A-I-A-I-O.) That's the best match I have ever seen. Azen is just way too fast. Is that the one where they say "Light up the sky" ?

That one taught me how to Fox vs Fox. I was kinda disappointed with Chillin though. He made some poor choices. :(

Still a great match. :cool:

[mewtwo7]

Fox vs. Fox is a lot of fun, mostly because of how fast paced the matches run. I played a few of those the other day against my friend and he ended up winning, but the matches were so fast paced it was fun trying to keep up. I can only imagine what 2 captain falcons would be like...

[choknater]

Umm, Fox is much faster than Captain Falcon.

[mewtwo7]

I haven't gotten any experience with Captain Falcon, so I was basing what I said on run/walk speed. After going and messing around with his moves, I see just how much faster paced Fox is. Ah well. Falco is my main anyways :p

[Final Fox]

one thing i noticed about fox is the fact that, when a player first starts using fox at tourney battles...alot of ppl said that the player was gay. I play in the monterey bay thunder tourneys and theyt dont say that anymore. in fact. my friend danny now uses fox cause he says hes good. I told him i use fox for another reason. because i did not like anyone else. why?...because they arent my favorite animal. yay-yay

[BTZO]

Originally posted by Final Fox
one thing i noticed about fox is the fact that, when a player first starts using fox at tourney battles...alot of ppl said that the player was gay. I play in the monterey bay thunder tourneys and theyt dont say that anymore. in fact. my friend danny now uses fox cause he says hes good. I told him i use fox for another reason. because i did not like anyone else. why?...because they arent my favorite animal. yay-yay

Yeah, but I not only decided to use fox cause hes good but cause none of my other characters were working so I wanted to try someone new, but I can still go back to my old characters whenever I want.

[Ratking1234]

I agree. Fox on Fox is the most fun to watch. Take the Azen vs. Chillin Fox Fox vid. It's the best match vid in my opinion. (plus 2 characters out with the sexiest move in the game, it makes it all the more fun to watch)

P.S. Shine spike is the sexiest move in the game.

[ShadowFalco]

i love fox but if u fight fox and falco u gonna have the wierd battle

[Ratking1234]

Fox vs. Falco isn't as fun I don't think because well, I play Fox, and I think Fox is at a disadvantage to Falco in most areas.

[BTZO]

Originally posted by Ratking1234
Fox vs. Falco isn't as fun I don't think because well, I play Fox, and I think Fox is at a disadvantage to Falco in most areas.
In some areas Fox is at a disadvantage, but his speed and his faster blaster make up for these disadvantages.

[Final Fox]

BTZO has a good point about the fox vs falco thing....but. watching a fox and fox battle all the time is....{the same crap every time}. And with falco in the mix you can watch fox try a jump spin kick and not hit falco because he jumps higher, lol. and the falco will turn around and lay a slap. I really want to see a falco player go up against a fox player and mess with their head by jumping over foxes every attack. i think that would be novelty

[TWP]

My friend (sevenofcoins) and I do Fox dittos at least once evertime we play, his fox is slightly better than mine but the matches are so fast sometimes I end up losing track of where each of us are and what we're doing, and you fingers defidentally begin to hurt after awhile of waveshinign and JCshines.

But no matter how many times we play, the battles are just fun and awesome to see some of the crap we can land and do to each other combo wise.

[Final Fox]

Originally posted by TWP
My friend (sevenofcoins) and I do Fox dittos at least once evertime we play, his fox is slightly better than mine but the matches are so fast sometimes I end up losing track of where each of us are and what we're doing, and you fingers defidentally begin to hurt after awhile of waveshinign and JCshines.

But no matter how many times we play, the battles are just fun and awesome to see some of the crap we can land and do to each other combo wise.

Funny, everytime i use fox my fingers dont even start to feel funny. Is it cuz i suck or because they are sweatin' too much?. I have no idea...maybe i suck if my fingerz dont hurt....The agony!!!!

[TWP]

My fingers hurt because my response to almost everything he does is shine...and then I either JC it or waveshine...and after a 5 life stock match your fingers tend to get a bit tired...

You're prolly a really good Fox and I'm a beserker Shine Fox

[BTZO]

Originally posted by TWP
My fingers hurt because my response to almost everything he does is shine...and then I either JC it or waveshine...and after a 5 life stock match your fingers tend to get a bit tired...

You're prolly a really good Fox and I'm a beserker Shine Fox
That is exactly right for both of us too, Final Fox is a really good fox user (the best in our area as far as we know) and I just shine like crazy. He is still alot better than I am though, but I am second best around here (Monterey County).

[Final Fox]

Originally posted by TWP
My fingers hurt because my response to almost everything he does is shine...and then I either JC it or waveshine...and after a 5 life stock match your fingers tend to get a bit tired...

You're prolly a really good Fox and I'm a beserker Shine Fox

that last comment you posted almost made me cry. But as to that topic i have no idea what a shine is. (crickets chirping in the distance). If i had to hazard a guess id say a shine is some type of fox illusion crap but just call me a noob i guess. I recently fought a match with a character who uses link and nearly got my A$$ handed to me. Which i assume is not good but the guy could actually read my moves. His gameplay was bad though...but jeez i got lucky. if i find out what the waveshine is ill try that out more. Has anyone ever face a crappy player who sucked with character attacks but had the ability to always sense your next move?....its very scary to me...

[Hoefler]

t3h sh1|\|3 1s h1s r3fleCt0r dO0d!!11!

on your link prob: what exactly was he/she doing that gave you so much trouble?? Fox vs. link is t3h easy man.

[Final Fox]

Originally posted by 311
t3h sh1|\|3 1s h1s r3fleCt0r dO0d!!11!

on your link prob: what exactly was he/she doing that gave you so much trouble?? Fox vs. link is t3h easy man.

heres the sad thing 311.....link was doing nothing.... all i remember is the whole "wait for the fly to come to you" and i guess i was the fly. (even though i won the fight, i had 126% and link had 128%, and i dont know about you but i dont wanna be hit with links up B when im that hurt). he was basically using only defense tactics and i just waited till he did up b and then ran in there and up smashed him.

[Hoefler]

Originally posted by Final Fox
heres the sad thing 311.....link was doing nothing.... all i remember is the whole "wait for the fly to come to you" and i guess i was the fly. (even though i won the fight, i had 126% and link had 128%, and i dont know about you but i dont wanna be hit with links up B when im that hurt). he was basically using only defense tactics and i just waited till he did up b and then ran in there and up smashed him.

that's what your blaster is for. if someone is sitting there playing defense, pop him until he decides to give up his camping ways and comes to you. when a link is charging at a descent fox (not saying that you're bad sweetie), that fox should already be setting a plan in his/her mind. you WILL have plenty of time to do this as the link runs very slow and his/her projectile game can only do so much against your shine.

For future reference, if you come across another defensive/camping player, just try on this strategy. When he comes to you in a storm of attacks (which most of the time will happen if you've been blaster'ing right) just run in like you're going to attack and wavedash back. or if you dont want to take that chance, just wavedash back in place. the lag from his/her failed attack should give your speedy fox the time he needs to wreak havoc on the slower, still caught in lag, link.

[fluffy-sama]

Originally posted by Final Fox
...and i dont know about you but i dont wanna be hit with links up B when im that hurt).

I'd be equally afraid of Links d-air... but yeah..

i wonder if it would work to run in and dash-cancel and wave dash away to trick him (possibly..) into doing his up-b attack... profiding link stays on the ground, there's a lag at the end where you can just run straight in and up-smash him to kingdome come.

[Hoefler]

WAIT A SEC..!

this is a fox vs. fox thread!

lol, start a new one if you want to talk.

[ssbm_ENGLAND]

fox V fox are easy matches if you have a good fox just up though up-smash alot thats and and do uptilt a bit aswell

[Qwester]

Dittos are never easy because anything you can do to the other person, they can do to you.
fox V fox are easy matches if you have a good fox just up though up-smash alot thats and and do uptilt a bit aswell
This is only assuming that you're the better Fox.

[pictish freak]

Qwester is right, every ditto has 50/50 potential. If you up tilt a lot, they can up tilt right back...

No easy ditto's......

[Final Fox]

Originally posted by 311
that's what your blaster is for. if someone is sitting there playing defense, pop him until he decides to give up his camping ways and comes to you. when a link is charging at a descent fox (not saying that you're bad sweetie), that fox should already be setting a plan in his/her mind. you WILL have plenty of time to do this as the link runs very slow and his/her projectile game can only do so much against your shine.

For future reference, if you come across another defensive/camping player, just try on this strategy. When he comes to you in a storm of attacks (which most of the time will happen if you've been blaster'ing right) just run in like you're going to attack and wavedash back. or if you dont want to take that chance, just wavedash back in place. the lag from his/her failed attack should give your speedy fox the time he needs to wreak havoc on the slower, still caught in lag, link.

Your right about the blaster thing 311 but i dont really care to use the blaster that much when im fighting. And when i do use the blaster i dont use the traditional "b button thumb smash that only lets me level out 5-6 shots before it stops" method. Instead, i reposition the controller in my hand and fire full automatic. The reason that i did not do that with this link fighter is that he would simply be able to run up to me and catch me off- guard. because id have to center the controller in my hand. Im sure all that can simply be overcome with practice though but i just thought you should know why i didnt use the blaster in that match. i onestly dont trust my wavedash too often also because i figure if i can see it then my opp can too.

[BTZO]

Also on what Final Fox said even if he used the blaster not only would he have hands in a bad position, but he would also not have time to recover before Link would hit him. I was there for that match as well and I don't know, but it seemed like he was reading Final Fox's moves. He wasn't a very good player, but for some reason he did very well against Final Fox (which I didn't really understand because I easily beat him and I am easily beaten by Final fox, but maybe that guy just does good against final fox for some reason).

[CunningKitsune]

Ah, Final Fox, I'm sorry to say this, but it seems that you are lacking in two very helpful abilities with Fox, one being blaster control and the other being wavedashing.

You'd be surprised how much a little blaster fire can do to alleviate your troubles in your match-ups. Sure, SHLing with Fox doesn't give him excellent cover fire and a powerful means of advancing or retreating, like Falco, but it is because of these things that Fox's blaster is used as a means of control and mind games rather than as a way to advance or retreat. I myself use blaster fire whenever I can, and it works far better than some others would at first believe. I use it to force my opponent to come to me (when appropriate, of course) so that I am better prepared for his or her eventual forced attack. I use it to pester my foe from afar with repeated in-place SHLs. I use it to add chip damage and prep my opponent for a lethal up-smash. Especially in an admittedly-lopsided match like Fox vs. Link, your blaster fire can receive heavy use in controlling the movements and positioning of the opposing Link player. You already far out-class Link in terms of speed and melee combat, so why not further accentuate your advantage with a bit of blaster control and force the Link player into a position he doesn't want to be in? Not only will you have brought Link to you, thus giving you (hopefully) the advantage in terms of preparation, but Link will also have a good amount of damage tacked onto him thanks to his sluggish forced advance, enough so that even a single Jab in close combat can lead to an up-smash and juggling, which you can probably end with the customary up-aerial.

The one thing I'm confused about with your blaster situation is your need to change hand positions on the controller... I've never heard of a Fox player needing to do that, unless, of course, I haven't looked hard enough. :) Care to explain that to me, Final Fox? I'm sure that if you can overcome that need to change positions, you would not be distracted long enough for any foe to take advantage of you, especially Link.

Now, about the wavedashing... I sincerely suggest that you build up your confidence in this technique; it can be so much fun with Fox. The mind games, the lagless repositioning for follow-up strikes and proper spacing, the waveshine, the Drill Shine, the infinite down-wavedash shine... There is so much great stuff you can do with Fox's wavedash it's not even funny. It doesn't matter so much that your foe can see it (which is actually quite difficult to do, especially considering Fox's 4-frame jump speed) as what they can do to stop whatever you are doing from it. The benefits of it far outway their seeing what you are doing, IMO; my opponents see that I've wavedashed back from their retaliatory strike from a forward fox-trot, but that doesn't mean that they can stop my jump-canceled grab or dashed, jump-canceled up-smash, now, does it? I suggest that you become more confident in your use of Fox's wavedash, Final Fox; I think you'll find that it will have a very positive impact on your game. Not that I'm trying to force you to do it or anything. Just trying to help. :D

/daily essay post

Edit: Har-dee-har-har, stiletto... I once rolled a negative number for my waveshine; CORY appeared and unplugged my Cube. I was sad that day... :p

...Anyway, I have been working on the update diligently for a while... It's just that there's been a whole lot of stuff going on right now; as a matter of fact, this edit is coming to you from New Orleans, where I will be until the 27th, so I can't even work on it for that time. :( But don't worry, stiletto, the update will be well worth the wait, which, I admit, has been quite a long time...

The essay post will return....

[stilettotrap]

CunningKitsune, I'm appalled. Your essay was only 4 paragraphs! I must ask you to stop before you fall behind. You obviously have no idea how a waveshine works; aside from all the technicalities, you also have to roll a twenty-sided die. If you roll a 20, you get a successful waveshine. If you roll something between and including 5-19, you get a successful waveshine, but not in the right direction. Anything lower than that and Fox will either air-dodge or Illusion off the cliff. In the rare event that you roll a negative number, a SWF mod will swoop into your room, turn the lights on and off six times, and proceed to unplug your controller. Honestly, people these days...

...

Okay. Now for the actual comment:

Give us updates now!

[Final Fox]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CunningKitsune
Ah, Final Fox, I'm sorry to say this, but it seems that you are lacking in two very helpful abilities with Fox, one being blaster control and the other being wavedashing.

You'd be surprised how much a little blaster fire can do to alleviate your troubles in your match-ups. Sure, SHLing with Fox doesn't give him excellent cover fire and a powerful means of advancing or retreating, like Falco, but it is because of these things that Fox's blaster is used as a means of control and mind games rather than as a way to advance or retreat. I myself use blaster fire whenever I can, and it works far better than some others would at first believe. I use it to force my opponent to come to me (when appropriate, of course) so that I am better prepared for his or her eventual forced attack. I use it to pester my foe from afar with repeated in-place SHLs. I use it to add chip damage and prep my opponent for a lethal up-smash. Especially in an admittedly-lopsided match like Fox vs. Link, your blaster fire can receive heavy use in controlling the movements and positioning of the opposing Link player. You already far out-class Link in terms of speed and melee combat, so why not further accentuate your advantage with a bit of blaster control and force the Link player into a position he doesn't want to be in? Not only will you have brought Link to you, thus giving you (hopefully) the advantage in terms of preparation, but Link will also have a good amount of damage tacked onto him thanks to his sluggish forced advance, enough so that even a single Jab in close combat can lead to an up-smash and juggling, which you can probably end with the customary up-aerial.

The one thing I'm confused about with your blaster situation is your need to change hand positions on the controller... I've never heard of a Fox player needing to do that, unless, of course, I haven't looked hard enough. :) Care to explain that to me, Final Fox? I'm sure that if you can overcome that need to change positions, you would not be distracted long enough for any foe to take advantage of you, especially Link.

Now, about the wavedashing... I sincerely suggest that you build up your confidence in this technique; it can be so much fun with Fox. The mind games, the lagless repositioning for follow-up strikes and proper spacing, the waveshine, the Drill Shine, the infinite down-wavedash shine... There is so much great stuff you can do with Fox's wavedash it's not even funny. It doesn't matter so much that your foe can see it (which is actually quite difficult to do, especially considering Fox's 4-frame jump speed) as what they can do to stop whatever you are doing from it. The benefits of it far outway their seeing what you are doing, IMO; my opponents see that I've wavedashed back from their retaliatory strike from a forward fox-trot, but that doesn't mean that they can stop my jump-canceled grab or dashed, jump-canceled up-smash, now, does it? I suggest that you become more confident in your use of Fox's wavedash, Final Fox; I think you'll find that it will have a very positive impact on your game. Not that I'm trying to force you to do it or anything. Just trying to help. :D

/daily essay post [/


Thanx for the advice...ill try and take that into account. And about the controller reposition that i do. basically i find it easier to rapidly tap the b button using my index finger rather then my thumb. Plus when i use my thumb i find its hard to keep up the necessary rythem needed to maintain foxes continous blaster fire. using my index finger makes up for that flaw, so thats why. I know one thing though. all that hasnt affected my gameplay as it seems it would( just ask BTZO, he'll tell you about this kid named geoff and how he holds the controller due to the fact that hes used to playing capcom vs snk). I would tell you but he'll make it sound funnier. anyway, thanx again for the advice kitsune.

[f5o0x]

I'm really suprised at most of u guys that u don't know how to wavedash with fox. To me L-canceling and wavedashing are what make my game. But if u really want some good smash vids a friend of mine is hosting a tourny in Danbury, C.T. Mofo and Havoc will be there and they will have some pretty awsome matches. Not to mention a fox fight between me and mofo.

[Final Fox]

Originally posted by f5o0x
I'm really suprised at most of u guys that u don't know how to wavedash with fox. To me L-canceling and wavedashing are what make my game. But if u really want some good smash vids a friend of mine is hosting a tourny in Danbury, C.T. Mofo and Havoc will be there and they will have some pretty awsome matches. Not to mention a fox fight between me and mofo.

Jeez man all these good players are on the other side of the US...why. I use alot of L-canceling but it doesnt really make up my game. Sadly mine just changes everytime i play because i try to adapt myself to a new opp every time

[Umbreon]

yes, I played Mofo. He can chain grab too good >_> I'll vouch for his skill. We raped each other, right after each other lol. Funny stuff. But he won like every match without trying.

No one on the WC is good with Fox, that's why. DieSuperFly has a good Fox. WA guys have OK Fox stuff.Oregon has no one. Deezie could play like anyone else because his style is based around more mind games than just fox tricks.

WC isn't the place to be for Fox.

[the_suicide_fox]

A good trick that will ensure you a win (assuming time limit is on) is blaster spamming another Fox and hope he decides to reflector it. IF you do catch him in a rapid fire lasering he can't do ANYTHING at all. Sure you will take a lotta % but so what if he can't move. But first thing's first you gota get a stock up on him, and don't do it on moving levels unless it's any area that hazards don't go.

Fox dittos come down to who gets the grabs out more. Grab upthrow upsmash upairs will rape Fox. It works on Falco too. You could also just upthrow chain grab Fox and Falco. And they can DI but not much so you can run and grab them again.

I'd suggest against Fox just upthrow upsmash like crazy. Falco you would want to try to chain grab since he is easy to reflector spike. You can force him to DI near the edge of the level then chuck him off and spike him. Or upthrow him near the edge and jump reflector spike him. Either way, he is spiked.

[Cronos_Rainbow]

A tactic I like to use is the upsmash from reflector.
If you're getting uair juggled by the other Fox, if they give you room, try reflect them when they get the hit move of the upair off (not easy) or just mash jump and L/R as well as left right on the stick. This helps get out of the juggle and is a random direction with the dodge which helps throw the juggler off. These methods aren't easy though so don't expect to pull them off as a sure fire escape. In the end the better Fox will win. Just practise your reflector and dodge/tech. The rest depends on your style IMO.

[Suretman]

One thing I have found out when I played umbreon mow that is this really cheap tactic(we did it in a falco ditto but I'm sure the same thing applies): shorthop blaster and fastfall and fastfall so it blaster cancels and immediately reflector, if they reflected then your reflector will make the shot go back to them and if they unreflected then it will hit them, if they don't unreflect and they want to do the bounce back and forth thing guess who's reflector will break? Their's!! So you always win with the shorthop blaster spam!