Fox & Falco Vs. All 26 Characters

[Nephilim]

So I've made my choice, I'm gonna play Fox and Falco as my main. While they are both extremely competetive characters, there are just some characters that give them ****.

Mainly Marth, Peach, Jiggly and maybe Luigi(there may be others, I don't think those are the only counters). So let's discuss some strategy vs. their counters. Or maybe a third character to pick up to deal with the pesky counter characters.

For starters how do you guys deal with Marth? My Falco does alright thanks to the SHB but my Fox gets crushed. Marths up throw chain can take Fox and Falco from 0% to death or off the stage which translates to death.

Well let's hear your ideas, opinions, rants and anything in between.

[RockCrock]

Fox vs Marth.... all you need to do is u-air. I can beat my friends great marth, simply by using u-air. I dont even have to shine spike.

Falco... SHL and F-Smash. If Marth is just trying to shield grab it, SHL then grab.

Against Jiggs... I'd use a third character. I like Ganon as an opposite to Fox. Weight, Speed, Strength, Falling Speed.

[Cloud Strife X]

Fox should not have that much problems with Jiggs, as long as you DI right you should be str8.

As for marth Grab into arial up airs normaly work nicely if he doesn't DI ....so you have to get used to the direction and when the person is going to DI to catch him.

The only problem would be grabing him, a good marth should hardly ever be grabbed at all he should always be out of range of a grab unless it is forced.

I don't know much about the other matchups so yea..

[Juce]

i want to know how to use fox aganist a samus. i would asum that you use his speed to your advantage, but this samus i fight uses WD to go as fast as sheiks dash so he can get going pretty fast. any tips?

and Cloud Strife X, what happpend to your pictures?

[ShadowFalco]

One of my friends play as him and he always finds a way to beat me. His Dair smash always gets me. so far my stradegy is always move and roll towards him. Then wen i get use to him he uses Captian Falcon. hes too fast for me sometimes. I ll get him evenutually. haha. thanks.

[f5o0x]

wut i have discovered when it comes to fox and falco is that they are not that good of a match up against a floaty character. Mabey Falco will stand a chance because he has such a high jump. But most fox falco players will know with expirience that u should have another character to play. preferebly Ness. Why, because Ness is a very floaty character with a decent amount of speed. Just like fox and falco although fox would destroy falco in speed. So all u people with toubles on floaty characters try out a ness. If that doest work try hitting them off guard. If u can't do that than i don't know wut to tell u.

[Juce]

i dont think that ness would be good to play as. if any thing, if you want to play a floaty charactor, i think it would be marth(since he is a lot bettter charactor than ness) but i guess thats my opionon.

[Umbreon]

I dunno about falco so much, but fox has 3 main enemies

Falco
Samus
Marth

Falco combos fox like garbage. All fox has on him is upthrow to....something. While Falco can shine and uptilt him to triple digits AND kill you.

Fox also has little/no way around samus's CC. If Samus chooses to CC and WD at you, there's not alot you can do. Particularly because her air game also beats you. Her up drill beats every move fox has. Samus waits till you **** up, shine her, miss an L cancel, most things. Then, dtilt and you lose.

Marth outranges you on everything, and also chain grabs you to 40% every stock, uptilt for another 40%, and C tip. No fun. You get grabbed, you lose a stock, and no DI will save you.

As for Jiggly > Fox....well you'll just have to be creative. If you're smart, Fox > Jiggly.

[stilettotrap]

Samus, Marth... yeah, but Falco, not so much, I think.

Yes, Fox has the up throw to "something." So Fox up throws... this can lead to quite a few things.

Up throw to (jc dash) up smash should work regardless of where Falco DIs. Up throw to forward smash can work if Falco DIs to either side.

Up throw to repeated utilts starts working at mid percentages and can continue to juggle Falco until he DIs, at which point he probably eats bair, sex kick, dash attack, usmash, fsmash, a grab, or whatever else might work.

If Falco doesn't DI the up throw, you can simply grab him again. If you prefer, you can also let Falco tech, and just go from there. When he techs, you can just follow with another grab, the dash attack (which leads to utilt), a jc usmash, shffl'd aerial (including uair), dc d/fsmash....

Up throw to bair/uair starts working at mid to high percentages. As long as we're talking about bair, bair has potential to send Falco offstage at extremely low percentages, and pretty much all of Fox's attacks can combo into it, one way or another. Of course, the same applies the other way around.

A f/bthrow near the side of the stage can pretty much guarantee death. If the Fox player is any good, Falco is more or less dead as soon as he goes offstage.

Finally, it should be noted that Fox doesn't always need the up throw to start a combo, since pretty much any of his launchers can be used on its own.

Meh. Maybe it's just me, but as far as I'm concerned, Fox vs. Falco is pretty even. It mostly depends on which player can get the combos started first, since either character can potentially chain the other to **** and back and end with a KO as long as they can get a launcher in. Stage could play a role, too; Falco uses projectile interference rather than raw speed to gain the initiative, and Falco's SHBs aren't as abusable on, say, Fountain of Dreams as a stage like FD.

Anyhow.

[ShadowFalco]

The only reason my friend can beat me wit marth is cause he presses the same button. but other then that i kill him pretty easy. i can see y marth would b a challenge. i can see samus but not marth.

[FireFox518]

Whatever Happened to Peach isn't she a Anti-Fox character as well? I'm not sure about a anti-falco character but, what tactics can you use against a peach if your a Fox ?

[ShadowFalco]

i dont no im not a fox player but id move alot and shoot her went i could. his backflip kick is pretty strong. i d that some too.

[Ratking1234]

Originally posted by stilettotrap
Samus, Marth... yeah, but Falco, not so much, I think..

Problem is, All fox has on falco is Up throw to ___________ other then that. Falco is better in most every way.

[ShadowFalco]

i have to agree wit u on that one buddy

[Juce]

falco isnt better in all other ways, maybe for beginers, but thats why fox is higher on the tiers. in another thread it explains it, but i forgot what thread.

fox>falco

[Ratking1234]

Look at the thread and what M3D posted. He says and most "higher level players" say. Fox is better then Falco, but in a Fox vs. Falco matchup, Falco has the advantage on Fox.

[ShadowFalco]

i have to disagree cuz fox is lighter so he can fly farther wit a simple hit the falco. so i gotta say falco is way better. screw was stats say. i can slaughter wit falco and i can slaughter fox.

[BTZO]

Originally posted by Juce
falco isnt better in all other ways, maybe for beginers, but thats why fox is higher on the tiers. in another thread it explains it, but i forgot what thread.

fox>falco
Yes, fox is on higher tiers because he is faster in many ways. His recover is faster and his blaster. Also it is easier to combo after his throws.

[ShadowFalco]

i guess ur rite man

[ArC_man]

Fox also has the shinespike on falco...it kills at.... 0%? as long as he's off stage. And he also has that "semi-infinite" on falco that goes up to like 80% or so. Even though you can escape, you can always grab em or smash em afterwards.

[Rayzorium]

I see the topic drifting from Fox and Falco against their counters to Fox against Falco, which isn't good.

Falco's my main, and I'm looking for counter strategies against three characters: Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Peach. I've never played against someone really good at any of those characters (nobody around here is good at all, in fact), but I fear them greatly.

I can beat the local Jiggs with ease, because he does not WoP. Everyone tells me that Falco fears Jiggs' Wall of Pain. How do you get around it? And who counters Jiggs?

All of Luigi's attacks are murder on fastfallers, from what I've witnessed. He doesn't do well against SHL (but then again who does?), so that's a slight save for me. How should you deal with this guy, and who are his counters?

EDIT: How could I forget? Sheik! Her forward aerial is bloody murder on Falco. She has no counters, so only one question: how do I deal with her?

EDIT: Found a Falco against Peach thread. Nevermind.

[ShadowFalco]

just wondering, THIS MAY BE OFF TOPIC, but how do u do fox's infinite reflect combo? i hear ppl talking about it all the time. how do u do it?

[Juce]

what you do is a shine to a WD then again and agian....if your up aganist a wall you can WD straight down and do this over and over

[fluffy-sama]

well, aaaaaactually...

if you only do the shine, you won't short hop after them, which means, you won't be able to follow up.

a better idea would be to SH + d-air and L-cancel into reflector shield.. then WD out of the reflector after whoever, and repeat... this works best on characters like Peach or Link b/c of they don't slide very far. Try this on Luigi, and he'll just go WHOOOSH >>; and you won't be able to reach him with a WD...

and of course, if you're against a wall you could probably do it to anyone as long as ya want.. almost anyone. >>;

[FireFox518]

Thats actually a great combo.... but can anyone name a good finisher with a floatly character such as peach with fox ... thanks

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

If you mean a good finisher for the infinite combo, just cancel the shine with an up smash after you've done enough damage.

If you're talking about in general, up smash and up air are generally preferable since most floaty characters are able to recover from most anywhere, are immune to most forms of edgeguarding, and are generally impossible to shine spike (except for Luigi). Therefore vert-KO's are usually much more effective, especially when Fox has such powerful and abusable vert-KO moves.