Dealing with Doc...

[Rose]

I've never really had trouble with the Marios, but Doc has been giving me problems lately. Pills are a very good disrupter...GaW's already poor approach is further reduced and the pills rack up damage quickly, dash attacks often shieldstab (just barely, which makes it so frustrating), shuffle spam (nairs and bairs) are extremely good disrupters and appear to go through all of my approaches and defensive attacks. The things he can do with cape (edgehog to edgehopped cape, for instance) make dropping below the edge to recover a nightmare. Doc isn't particularly succeptible to GaW's comboing (more than Marth, less than Falcon) and edgeguarding Doc is extremely frustrating...having him nip you slightly with the tip of his up-B or having a stray pill hit you right before the kill...argh.

I know that GaW has a few definite advantages, but this match has been pissing me off lately. I'll probably do better by learning how to use the c-stick more to shuffle fair while moving backwards...my friend's Doc does almost nothing but pill and shuffle nair, with his his nair always used to advance, hitting me right before my attack comes out (like, in the opening frames, every time).

[footnbaseball]

well if he uses shffled nairs a lot thats really an advantage for you. When your opponents make mistakes, you prosper, and hitting someone with the opening frames of docs nair is a mistake (just in case you dont know, his nair has the odd property of becoming stronger as it stays out, being strongest right before it ends). So thats good, let him keep doing that.

This situation sounds like it could benefit from some key. If you fullhop it, it will get you over pills and short hopped nairs, then you can fast fall it on his head, follow up with a dtilt, etc, etc. You may also want to use dtilt for edgeguarding a doc, since i believe it hits him before he hits you, or you trade hits. correct me if im wrong there. And since doc really has no choice but to go for a sweetspot when he recovers ( he cant really recover above you), it should be very effective since i somehow doubt this player can sweetspot consistently.

[omegablackmage]

im not really quite sure how his approach beats yours... doesn't the fair outrange all of his attacks? if he's shuffling back airs, fair him, if he's shuffling nairs, fair him, im a bit confused as to why this doesn't work for you. When he's edgeguarding you he jumps down and capes? If he does this every time there are a few options for you. First, up b before he can cape you, second, if you see him jumping down, up b reverse direction, both of these are risky. If he's edgehog-caping you, your not sweetspotting.

[Gea]

While a good Doc will eat through GW's fairs with pills and correctly spaced fairs of his own, this sounds like pillrush spam. By the way, if you ever get Doc well above you, it is more or less a free nair. Doc's options when under someone are almost as slim as Zeldas, with a crappy dair his only option besides airdodging or coming in at an angle are fastfalled fairs. The chute is disjointed, so bam.

Try not to use your shield so much. It might seem crazy what with the pills, but it is much better to find another way around the pills than be possibly launched by the dash attack, which sets you up for pain. I don't get the chance to play a Doc with my crappy GW (but my main is Doc..) but I would think your fair or bair eats pills for breakfast, being disjointed and all. If he rushes in without the proper stun, I wanna say fsmash will rape his nair unless he is dropping in on you. If that is the case respace or go for a shuffl'd aerial of your own.

Also I think dtilt clanks with Doc's downsmash if I recall correctly, and since Dtilt is faster you get the launch. If the doc is trying to sweetspot edgeguard. If you can't make it don't hang right at the edge, because Doc's superpunch does nip above. Try to fling 1-2 bacons if he is coming in low, and if he is high try jumping under his pills into a nair for the kill, or above his pills into a fair. While recovering come in high so even if he capes you, you can get back to the stage by drifting.

The main problem I see here is you seem to be trading hits, and he is a great deal heavier than you..

I'm working on assumptions here, so take this with a grain of salt and correct when needed. But as a Doc player that seems about right.

[nightcape1]

basket his pills at a safe distance... then unleash (edgegaurd or kill maybe). this will train him not to spam. as for nairs, u have many options. wd out and back in wit a tilt or smash, wd out and jump in with an arial of your own, shield grab, jump out of the way and use any arial besides uair, or sh an arail of your own to parry the nair. g&w can rape doc, u just have know how to use him.

[DireVulcan]

I eat that foo fo' dinnah.

[LAX]

basket his pills at a safe distance... then unleash (edgegaurd or kill maybe). this will train him not to spam.

The bucket is way too laggy, and the pills are way too weak to be worth catching them.

As for shield grabbing it probably won't work all the time because of the sucky shield that anything can go through.

[Needle of Juntah]

i just spam moves like Fair and parachute :) the cape is really homo

[LAX]

spam f-smash
best move ever

[DireVulcan]

Not against Fox =b.

[omegablackmage]

he reveals his secrets...

[LAX]

haha nevermind. I thought this was the Mario forums. @_@

[Thomas Tipman]

what?? fair rapes all docs airs, its disjointed goodness. also the hitbox for it is a bit bigger than the credit card, take boards, or what ever you wanna call it so **** its good. also (just for ya fella dat dont know) the hitbox stays the same size always dispite the animation making it look like it gets smaller (it just loses knockback).

[Needle of Juntah]

Utilt ftw :)