Official "Super moves" Discussion

[_the_sandman_]

By the looks of it, these abilities are caused by an item. So I'm assuming you can turn them on or off.

[TemplarPsi]

dude i wonder if theres more characters than that? plus i hope the whole mechanics dont change.

[ender]

No, I think there will only be 8 characters in the new game, sorry.

[Zeke]

Your character performs that special move when they grab the Smash Ball.

[5@/\/\U5]

people, whats the matter if there are "super" moves in the game if EVERY character has one that is equally weighted, and it is hard enough to get into a position to use?! honestly! by "hard enough to get into a position to use" im saying that yes, there will be an item that will get you to that point immediately, but with items off you can set up a super move through comboing or other things in a point-based system that rewards good technique/playing. And the moves should still be avoidable by shielding or just using skillful dodging. It would def add to the strat of the game IMO. I would go so far as to say that Nintendo will include a mode that doesn't include these new supermoves at all. Everyone just relax, this game is going to be unreal.

[McCloud]

I have a good feeling that the character limit comes up like once per game, and you have to fight to reach the item.

Like, you know... old school powerup stuff.

Whatever, I don't care either way. That stuff looks sexy.

[Knight]

I heard it is an item.
won't affect battle that much, and I like it.

[D-20 Dice]

I actually like that concept. If it's an item you can't turn off, they should make it have no knockback. But just do a lot of damage insted.

[McCloud]

I think it's difficult to perform a Limit (my personal name for them, sorry, I play too much Final Fantasy) and not have knockback.

As long as it doesn't kill them, then I don't see much of a problem with it. Knocking them off the stage is fine.

But what would be interesting is performing a limit that has a spike at the end... and starting the limit as an edgeguard.

*laugh*

[D-20 Dice]

But what would be interesting is performing a limit that has a spike at the end... and starting the limit as an edgeguard.

*laugh*
That there, is cruel and unusual punishemnt.

[turbo_ja]

The fundamentals of the game aren't gone, i mean everyone's attacks are similar (ie. neutral aerial, up smash etc) so not much from the original characters will change. The smash ball wont' do anything either, i bet it will just be something you can unlock to turn it off, if you guys hate it that much. If there are things like combo meters and crap, then nintendo may start to eff it up. But come on, its nintendo, there isn't any highly anticipated game that i haven't found to be fairly well done.

[DoctorChuk]

Come on guys, don't be so presumptuous and judgemental on something you know so very little about. All we have to go on is a teaser trailer for a game that still has a long way til release. I mean come on! It's coming from the guy that made Melee and that awesome little puzzle game Meteos. Would Sakurai be careless with the sequal to the best selling Gamecube game ever? I seriously doubt we'll get anything less than perfection with Brawl.

</rant>

[Scintillatedseed]

people, whats the matter if there are "super" moves in the game if EVERY character has one that is equally weighted, and it is hard enough to get into a position to use?! honestly! by "hard enough to get into a position to use" im saying that yes, there will be an item that will get you to that point immediately, but with items off you can set up a super move through comboing or other things in a point-based system that rewards good technique/playing. And the moves should still be avoidable by shielding or just using skillful dodging. It would def add to the strat of the game IMO. I would go so far as to say that Nintendo will include a mode that doesn't include these new supermoves at all. Everyone just relax, this game is going to be unreal.

Agreed, i even think there should be a mode to allow for supers. It seems everybody is scared of street fighter or something. Capcom vs. snk2 has supers and all the best fighting games have it, I have no idea what your objections are to supers, the game's have super's because it add's to the games techinque and fun.

[Nucks]

Good lord it better not turn into some Marvel VS Capcom stuff.
I remember playing it legit a long time ago in arcades and having some 5 year old bottom masher rape me.

[McCloud]

It won't be. Smash relies on timing as much as power. You can't infinitely chain attacks like you can in Street Fighter/etc.

[xianfeng]

I think that thing with link is the hal logo item where when you grab it you get a super duper move i.e. mario's super fireball & kirby's cooking pot

[Yuna]

That trailer was mostly mockup because it's, yes, shock, a trailer. Samus' charge shot was obviously a mockup because of the size of it and because of the angles (and the fact that Meta Knight and Kid Icarus turned their heads to look at her!). You see her suit exploding/going to pieces and then Zero Suit Samus appears.

Mario's fireball looked like an item thing though, but I doubt an attack that huge will have KO abilities. Most likely a damaging attack, but after all, we already had the fireflower and random Pokémons with the same abilities.

Link's special Triforce attack was most probably mockup though.

Also, Supers is just not the SSB-way. SSB is a different kind of fighter compared to traditional fighters. For example, traditional fighters have blocking and not shielding. They are also 2D and not 3D (we can for example face two different directions). Traditional fighters have in-game comboes, traditional fighters have mid-high-low (although we also have it in a way). Traditional fighters have....

[McCloud]

Traditional fighters have Bruce Lee ripoffs.

[urazhunfriend]

I'm too lazy to see if this was posted, but I think there will be an option to turn it off, if anything. The super combos look like a nice element, but I'm sure they would respect those dislike the concept of it. It looks like a casual player type thing.

[Hydde]

like everyone said... it will be most likely an item thingy and for sure will be able to turn off.

Anyways, i like so much the uber supers of mass destruction that anihilate everything on the screen =P................true is not smash way but i love it jajaja.

About link´s and Samus special........ i dont think they are part of a "cut scene" and im very sure both moves will be on the actual game.


So far.......Loving this ****e

[Vicko]

I feel as long as you can A) dodge the supers, B) not have to get an item to use them, C) they don't take the focus away from the action, and D) not everyone has just one, they'll be ok.
Marvel's supers can be countered by dodging/jumping over them.
Super moves like in Naruto (cutscenes) will make this game stupid.

[SmashBroPro]

I'm also a bit concerned about the special moves, they seem a bit much. Hopefully they're item based (it's impossible to say for sure though, as when mario grabs the Smash icon it was clearly pre rendered). However, if it's not item based there is a chance we will be stuck with these attacks. I believe this was the case with Mario Tennis and Soccer. Let's not forget that SSB was not designed with 1:1 balance in mind, or arguably competive balance at all (as shown by the nature of some of the items) so the semi-pro circuit's concerns might not rank highly. If I remember correctly even Nintendo's offical tournament for SSB was four player freeforall. Though it's all just speculation at this point.

Looking at the moveset of the four returning characters I was surprised at how identical they were. SSBM made some pretty dramatic changes to the attacks of every character. On one hand I'm a bit relieved as it will decrease the chances of having terribly imba characters, but I would have liked to see some moves modified, i.e. kirby's air hammer. Of course that's still a very real possibility and as long as they overhaul the mirror characters moveset (particularly Gannon), I'll be more than happy.

On a side note did anyone else laugh when they showed the new age character transformations and kirby looked almost exactly the same? He even looked around as if in envy of his rivals spiffy new outfits.

[Sir Roy]

If you look at the video closely....

1: Smash Attacks and Normal attacks have been changed around. I don't see any charges, but they look a little faster.

2: Meta Knight and Pit have extra jumps. (Cause tha wings.)

3: Meta Knight's three hit air combo appears to be the same, so maybe it's a move? He has a variation of it on the ground as well.

4: When Snake is hiding in his box, Mario performs a Roll.

5: In the short cutscene Meta Knight vs. Pit, and Pit fires an arrow, Metaknight performs a dodge. I'm not entirely sure, but the game probably still has dodges, although that dodge was performed in nifty cutscene mode.

6: The stages I can pick out: The first stage they show appears to be fairly neutral, and it has platforms..maybe a phase of Battlefield? Second Stage might be a remake of Hyrule Castle from the 64 Smash, and maybe a tie in with Twilight Princess. Third Stage...I have no idea. Possibly another Twilight Princess reference? Maybe Fire Emblem? Fourth Stage is definately Meta Knight's ship, from Kirby Super Star. This stage appears to change as the match goes by.

7: Teching Still exists (Mario hits the ground when Metaknight is finished with him), so that leaves the possibility of WD'ing being in the game.

And that's all I can pull from the little details of the game. From the little I've seen, I can say that this game is just going to be a bigger and badder version of Melee we all know and love.

[Hydde]

[QUOTE=Sir Roy]
6: The stages I can pick out: The first stage they show appears to be fairly neutral, and it has platforms..maybe a phase of Battlefield? QUOTE]


I have a veyr big feeling that this stage will be kid icarus´s, taking in consideration the greel styled columns and architecture of it.

[Gesi1223]

I think that thing with link is the hal logo item where when you grab it you get a super duper move i.e. mario's super fireball & kirby's cooking pot

That's obviously been confirmed by the video.

P.S: It's the SSB logo, not HAL's

P.P.S: After playing the trailer in slow motion I found Mario claps his "Fiery" hands to create his "FireFlowerdouken". :o Also if you look carefully the other players are barely thrown, maybe a couple feet but not like 300% Damage flying, it'll probably a very RARE item to get in-game, and it'll cause massive damage, but not Insta-kill broken crap. Because Nintendo can't break Mario, it's illegal for them to break him. :[

[xianfeng]

That's obviously been confirmed by the video.

P.S: It's the SSB logo, not HAL's
I know i realised that after i posted it but couldn't be stuffed to change it lol

[Mic_128]

Heh heh, yeah, Kirby got ripped off there. ;)

I'm pretty sure the supers are item-based, thank god.

[Yuna]

like everyone said... it will be most likely an item thingy and for sure will be able to turn off.

Anyways, i like so much the uber supers of mass destruction that anihilate everything on the screen =P................true is not smash way but i love it jajaja.

About link´s and Samus special........ i dont think they are part of a "cut scene" and im very sure both moves will be on the actual game.


So far.......Loving this ****e

Link's special Triforce move looks like an ingame move, even though they were up in the clouds.

Samus' mega charge shot was definately not ingame. For one thing, Pit and Meta Knight turn around in surprise when she charges it. For another, it's huge and lights up the entire screen (meaning it was at least mock up. The move might exist, but it was made up just for that sequence).

For another, the trailer moves right onto her suit falling to pieces, as if a consequence of the charge shot misfiring and destroying her armour, giving us Zero Suit Samus.

I agree with Hydde that the first stage appears to be a Kid Icarus stage.

As for Super moves in general. People fail to remember that SSB is a series not based on the conventional 2D fighter idea. It's for one thing a 3D fighter in essence. And 3D fighters, except for very few, don't have supers. For another, adding supers would be moronic. Especially those that can be spammed and comboed into. Mario's fireball looked instantenous for example.

It looks like the super moves are based off the SSB Symbol. Catch it and you can perform super moves. So it's not that much more overpowered than bob-ombs that will KO people, something Mario's fireball doesn't seem to do. Link's supermove looks extremely weak however. It's so long that in FFAs, he'll probably be unable to do it without getting hit by a 3rd character.

[YOSHIDO]

Yeah i saw that. Mario got the smash symbol and threw a HUGE horziantal fireblay. Now we all knw what yoshi's is gonna be. Hes a gonna throw eggs at a faster pace. With radicals on everyone's head. Hes theme song will play in the background ast this happens

[The Cape]

Check the trailer, it seems to be an item shaped like the SSB logo.

[ad134]

What i think is this:

---------------
Link VS Mario
---------------
Link smashes Mario into a wall, who jumps up and starts hammering Link! He racks up an amazing amount of damage, then shoots Link off the side of the arena with a smash. He recovers, then Mario hits him with a fully charged smash, resulting in his "Super Attack".

I reckon it will just be for showing off, and won't affect gameplay at all. Such as; when the Wii calculates there is NO CHANCE of recovery, Mario launches the move just to boast. Link's damage will shoot up to 999%, and go flying. Thing is, he had no chance of recovery anyway.



That's my theory, anyway.

[Sir Roy]

You notice that Poor Mario seems to catch the worst of it in the entire video?

Just a thought.

[Yoshipal13]

I really hope that what they showed for those attacks were just items, not super moves. Cause in the trailer it shows Mario grabbing a SSB symbol.

[Damax]

Link's super move may get you invincible, anyway ffa? what the hell

[typh]

Umm, hey guys.

First of all, it seems like it's from an item. Items off = no super moves. Problem solved.

Secondly, this is only the trailer. Watch the beginning cutscene from SSBM, you can see a bunch of stuff you couldn't normally do in the main game (I think, haven't watched that in a while).

Thirdly, OMG WTF SSBB

That is all.

[AOB]

In Mario tennis and soccer you can (and should) turn off the special shots. If this new thing isn't an item, I'm sure there's at least an option to turn it off.

[Macman]

i believe it is an item, when mario grabs the smashbros icon he turns all fiery and when they are fiery they do there moves. It's less cheap then a star it seems. I personally think it is a good idea, if it is an item we probably won't be using it in tourneys so it would be a fun addition to non serious matches.

the only thing that would suck is if they made a characters special uber strong and tried to balance it out by making the character suck. Now that isn't good...

[IVP]

i believe it is an item

I believe the same :)

[GenoBlast]

I'm not too worried about this, did you notice how mario grabbed that item and it seemed like that was what allowed him to do his special move. I'll bet its the same for link, and I dont know about you guys. but ill prolly be playing with items off most of the time.

[Drunken_Dragon]

people are blowing this out of proportion, i for one welcome supers and they amazing.


but lots of this talk is based off fighting game misconceptions. =/


in just about every game with supers, they work generally the same. i feel i pretty much know how theyd pull in this game.

firstly, why would they implement and easy one hit KO, i mean, look at the bat. high high knockback, pretty small range, bad recovery.

with SF as an example, most supers hit, and the person falls as normal after taking good damage. arbirtarily doing supers dosent work, why? people block. they block, your recovery is horrible as it should be, and they take advantage of it.

example, ryu in 3rd strike. jump in RH, c.short, fireball, super. a bunch of cancels that link moves pretty much designed to work in succesion. you COULD do shoryuken, super, but your super would miss. because they get knocked away. (well its variable, you can do his other super fast enough for it to land. (shin shoryuken))

anyway, i kinda analized marios super , the others are pretty obvious. mario is a beam super (coined in MVC) but, its not normal, the fire comes out, yeah its massive, but in reality whats hitting are the twisty quick moving fireballs inside of the big mass of fire. ie: kirby dosent start getting hit till hes WAY inside the fire, and they both get stuck and hit more.


well, theres several things to think of. 1. if you blocked, woul dyou be stuck to block other hits? or would a succesful block make the rest null, allowing you to virtually go through the attack after blocking (some attacks in smash are already like that)

2. look at the start up, its not a fast move. and i doubt there will be super pause, that wouldent fit at all in smash. you cant really see the recovery, but if you were over him and he did it, im pretty sure all youd have to avoid are those fire trails inside the beam. he stays there in his "kamehameha" stance till they are way past link and kirby.

3. its still hitting them when the scene changes, but the beam past both the characters, i doubt it "Sends them flying".

yeah, also, you can tell the difference between whats cut scene and in game, ie: mario grabbing the orb, cut scene, the instant it changed to his fireball scene, its in game.

link dashing, cutscene, super move, in game.

kirbys whole thing looks kinda cut scene. (but its hard to tell with him because his textures arent as detailed as mario and links... since hes a poof and all)

but yeah, i imagine links super start up is a dash, and he does a slash, if the slash hits, he does the rest of the super, amd a final hit which has decent knock back, or sends you down.
(by decent knockback, i mean it would kill you at 150%) or if it sends you down, you could do it for edge guarding to spike. but see, supers might not even be doable in air, and im pretty sure none of them will be unblockable (but if one or two are, they are probly easily dodged)

if anything, giving characters supers might help balance, and might promiscuate see-saw battles. which are fun. (ie: matches that go back and forth with whos winning, not like .. "beam battles" ala dbz)



sorry for rant hehe, i hope however, supers arent broken, and are in competative play.
shines? simispikes? not every one has those.. at least. (no offense to space animal players)