Infinite Grab in tournaments

[Ice X]

How come IG isn't used in tournaments? I don't think it's banned. Even if it is, I doubt it being "cheap" is the only reason people aren't using it. Why not?

[nealdt]

Pull it off in a competetive tournament against a good player who's expecting it (i.e. someone it would actually make a difference against). When you can't, you'll understand why.

[Ice X]

Thanks nealdt, nice to hear from a pro IC player besides myself jkjkkjk.

[Peter Rific]

lol ar nealdt being a pro.

[nealdt]

Hey, let him flatter me if he wants :).

[FFrost]

aww man, i thought I was the only one who liked the nintendog puppy avatar! Its so cute.

on topic: yeah, I dont use the infinite grab because its cheap....and thats my only reason.

[nealdt]

I know, isn't he adorable? He looks just like my Nintendog.

[errtu]

you haven´t answered, why isn´t it used in tourneys? besides it being cheap, and maybe beacause you can´t even grab the pro guy...?

[nealdt]

I implied why it isn't used.

[errtu]

*sigh* still no straight answer =(

[FFrost]

you are simply just not going to be able to pull it off against a good player, you will also have to deal with syncing nana up and having the perfect timing to keep the infinite going.

[advent102]

you are simply just not going to be able to pull it off against a good player, you will also have to deal with syncing nana up and having the perfect timing to keep the infinite going.

I think Chu Dat has proven that theory wrong.

Yeayuzz !



- venture -

[Black Luigi]

Who/when did Chu do it against? I don't think I've ever seen him do the infinite.

[InterimOfZeal]

Erm... Rob (HonorBound) was doing it against Omar's Sheik on FoD at UTT5. But ya know... the whole perfect timing/syncing thing kinda made it hard/impossible for him to do for more than 40%. Hell, Rob used it a LOT.

[THE RED SPARROW]

How is it hard? I can do it all the time so that couldn't be the legit reason.

[mikeHAZE]

I think Chu Dat has proven that theory wrong.

Yeayuzz !




you mean...YAHHYUHZZ!

haha...back on 7opic...


i 7ink 7he primary reason for i7 no7 bein9 used is becuase i'7 kinda looked down upon IMO.

[HMWii22]

The only reason I don't use it is because I think it's extremely cheap. I was talking to HoChiMinhTrail on AIM and he agrees with me :P

It's really not all that difficult to pull off. Sure it's hard to set up against a pro, but you'll get lucky often enough that if you practice the timing you could beat people who are much better than you.

[InterimOfZeal]

How is it hard? I can do it all the time so that couldn't be the legit reason.

Play someone who actually knows how to fight the ICs. You should be seperated, or at least partially desynched for almost the whole **** match.

[FFrost]

I was playing today and using the infinite, although its an easy kill I just felt like I got a cheap win out of it everytime I used it.

interim, I laughed so hard at your sig.

[Ice X]

Hey I'm just wondering was the infinite grab known by the creators? Did they purposely put that in the game or what?

[AzN_Lep]

Probably not. The creators just set the jab and the headbutt to have a ceritain time of knockback lag for you opponents. They didn't plan on constantly using it timed with one another.

Edit: D-tilt/F-tilt not jab, sorryz I typed that in a hurry ^^

[InterimOfZeal]

I thought you used the jab and either dtilt or ftilt to do the infinite?

FFrost, 4chan may have permanently damaged my mind, but from time to time, it comes up with some really laffo stuff. I'm glad you enjoyed it. XD

[HMWii22]

4chan sucks to me now. I'm all about the iichan/420chan/wtfux etc. Of course I know Kirtaner of 420chan in person and play ITG with him...

Anyways to be on topic, I do agree that the infinite can be tricky to set up and it's not exactly a win button, but I do think that if people are going to use it then Ice Climbers would be pretty much top tier. Inescapable combos are very scary things.

[Blind]

Oh goody, something I have expertise on. It is tricky to land on better players, but grabs are difficult the better your opponent gets.

All things considered, the timing isn't that difficult. I find it to be ridiculously easy, actually... and it only takes about a moment to get it, assuming you have Nana set up for it.

If your opponent knows that you can do it, it is hard to land... but they are generally so worried about being set up for grabs that you get different setups instead. It's a lot like having Samus' charge-shot primed... even if you never plan to use it, the fact that you COULD makes the opponent nervous.

Oh, that UTT5 thing... I was nervous. That's pretty much it. As you saw in other matches, I only got about... 2 or 3 grabs a match. And they each ='ed a stock.

MLG Dallas... now THAT was fun. Let's see... there was the Jigglypuff player I went against in pools... he let in *three* grabs. I got *three* infinites. Those were *three* lives. What is more, this Saturday I came close to beating Dr.DrewTheDragon in a 3 out of 5... and I even landed perfect infinite setup grabs. But we decided to ban it for the tourney, so I had to rely on chaingrabs, and he got out of them. What would have equaled a stock wound up being 40 percent. I don't know what Drew would say, but taking out the infinite, to me, made a difference in the outcome.

I have to agree though, KNOWING the infinite is coming makes it trickier to land... but you could ask my friend Zach, TheIncrediblyArrogantSoup, who managed to beat NEO's Roy (in a friendly), landing 2 infinites on him... and almost 4 stocking Zelgadis, landing 3 of them (in a tourney). But he uses a less expedient way of doing it than I do.

If you want to know if we can do it consistently in tournaments and friendly playt, ask the following people: JesusFreak, Rayzorium, BloodOfTheFallen, Taj, Glide, AZN_lep, Dr.Drew, Simna, Caveman, RobMoney, Smiles... uhh... yeah, the list goes on.

[mcc]

why are chaingrabs not banned in tourneys? they seem cheap. any noob can do them. they don't show the skill of the player either. a more skilled player could lose to a less skilled one because of chain grabbing

[InterimOfZeal]

Rob, how exactly do you set it up, and do you prefer dtilt or ftilt? I know what the timing needs to be, but sometimes I can't get Nana to synch properly. Better yet, do you have vids of your ICs where you do it, preferrably multiple vids/times?

MCC, chaingrabs are not an instant-win button, just like tier-whoring isn't. DI, mindgames, even getting the grabs off, they all prevent a CG from going from 0-death. Same goes for tech-chasing. With Fox, you could theoretically tech-chase any character from 0-death on Yoshi's Story, using his dthrow. In actuality, though, you'd be lucky to get 50% off, yo.

[Black Luigi]

Chaingrabs aren't banned because like Iterim said, they're not an automatic win. Chaingrabs take skill to pull off because you have to follow the opponent's DI and time things correctly. Even if you do everything perfectly, chaingrabs are not completely inescapable, and only work at/between certain percentages.

[mcc]

well i was talking about peach vs fox or shiek vs shiek type of stuff. they can chaingrab each other from 0% to i dunno but i got to 60% with shiek vs shiek. those types of chaingrabs don't take any skill whatsoever, and i think that kind of chaingrab should be banned. (the opponent can't really DI out of it).

[InterimOfZeal]

Wow... you're facing total idiots if they can't DI out before 60%. With Sheik vs Sheik, just DI backward at like... 20% or so, and you're out. Every cg takes at least a marginal amount of skill. The people you're facing are just nubs.

[gnosis]

What is more, this Saturday I came close to beating Dr.DrewTheDragon in a 3 out of 5... and I even landed perfect infinite setup grabs. But we decided to ban it for the tourney, so I had to rely on chaingrabs, and he got out of them. What would have equaled a stock wound up being 40 percent. I don't know what Drew would say, but taking out the infinite, to me, made a difference in the outcome.

That's what I'm wondering. If the infinite starts getting banned, how is it moderated? I've been told that you just can't use it, but I don't think that would be clear enough for a match. I mean, are you just not allowed to use ftilt or dtilt with Nana when you have them grabbed? Can you use it for a certain amount per grab? Or can you use the ftilt/dtilt, so long as you don't enter into the 'infinite' timing (which is a pretty sketchy rule...)? Etc.

[mcc]

well it was on corneria, so maybe the shifting of the ship had to do with something about not escaping, but i dunno. the people i play aren't very good anyways.

ok i have a new idea. i think that if you don't have to dash-grab (or at least move to) the opponent in a chaingrab, it should be banned in tourneys. the ones where you just stand there or just move an inch to grab take too little skill to prove anything.
i remember watching a vid bewteen a fox and a peach and the fox kept getting chaingrabbed and there was nothing he could do to get out of it. >: (

[InterimOfZeal]

And I think that's not a good idea. Guess what? People CAN DI outta the CGs, it's all a matter of making the opponent think you're going to DI one way, when you DI another, and boom, you're out.

[mcc]

but not until you get like 30% out of it. and the video between the fox and peach were not 2 noobs fighting. that CG was impossible to escape out of until the 6th or 7th throw. you make it sound like it's easy, but its really not. if you try to DI, the opponent can just move a little and grab you again. there's no tricking someone with DI. If you DI one way, you can't DI the other way and suddenly be out of their reach. DIing only goes so far. there are exceptions, of course, but i'm talking about generally

[InterimOfZeal]

DI the same way three times, then try a different way. While it won't work every time, sometimes, you can trick people into thinking you only know how to go one way, and they will only pay attention halfway. Also, you don't have to be good at DI to be a good player. Look at BombSoldier vs Ken...

Smash DI makes things a lot easier, too. Despite what you think, you CAN at least make the Peach have to run if she wants to continue her CG. Also, 30%? Why not ban some smashes, because they do the same? Better yet, let's ban Samus' Charge Shot, because, once you're hit, you're going to receive massive damage, as well as go flying. What? You can't just hit someone? Same goes for grabs. If cg'ing was that broken, people wouldn't play this game, or would simply play Sheik/ICs

[nealdt]

You can't Smash DI a throw. You can only Smash DI during hit stun, which throws have none of.

[Aero]

Unless you are against DK, you can just DI towards the ledge as well.

[InterimOfZeal]

DAMMIT NEALDT! JUST HAD TO OPEN YOUR TRAP, DIDN'T YOU?!?

I'm coming for your blood, boy.

[nealdt]

:)

(ten characters)

[mcc]

what's a smash DI? and no smash attacks do 30% unless they are fully charged. in the video i watched, the fox could barely move when he got thrown up. maybe if he were at 100% peach would need to run, but then falling wouldn't really be needed.

ok so about DIing, i was just thinking of fox, who can't DI very far, so i guess DIing would work.

[FFrost]

Smash DI is DIing the hit during the first frame of hitlag.