Marth and Roy

[Sytar]

Don't you think that they should take Marth out of the game? I mean, he is just a clone of roy. A severely overpowered clone at that. Roy has the perfect balance. He isn't too powerful, but he isn't too cheap either. Marth has his annoying sword which--while it isn't longer than Roy's--it has that freakin' tip attack. The tip of Marth's sword is obscenely easy to hit with. Hell, as a matter of fact, I have hard time not hitting with the tip of the sword. I mean, it is the most efficient way to avoid your opponents often limited hitbox, and it provides the maximum stun. Now, have you ever played with Roy? It's a god**** ***** to get the sword in its sweetspot. You have to let people in your guard and actually made yourself vaunerable if you want to get some damage done. That's the way it should be. With Marth, it's all pansy ****.

My problem isn't with Marth's (obviously) tremendously overpowered F-smash, because I can deal with that. But I am going to rant about it anyway. His F-smash can kill people before any other person's smash that I know of. Frame for frame, I don't think anybody has a more powerful F-smash that is easier to hit with. The thing can kill at insane percents like 50! That's rediculous, especially when it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to use. Even a skilled player will **** up and get hit by a newbie little Marth swining his big stick around.

The real problem with Marth, I think, is that his sweetspot is misappropriatly placed. If you look at Doc's "Buddah's Palm", you see that it almost behind him! Falcon's knee has to hit at an odd angle, making the top of the hitbox smack the player. Hell, if you hit with the tip of falcon's knee, you can expect near nothing to hit, but if you smash with the tip of Marth's you can expect death before a perfectly placed knee. I think that Roy's sweet spot is perfectly placed, forcing a character to play with skill, and not wildly swing around the sword. I'm not so much for "removing" Marth, rather than I am for placing his sweetspot nearer that of Roy's. Roy is just around the middle tier--the place all characters should ideally be.

[ScaryMunky]

Well you can expect either a removal or a modification of Marth. I think one or the other is guaranteed. As far as your rant, I agree with you on the sweetspot placement, as well as it's strength. His sweetspot needs to be brought closer to his body, and its knockback needs to be reduced.

I was Kirby and got tippered by Marth on DL64 at around 20%ish and I got magnified. That's ridiculous.

[Crownjo]

I thought that Roy was the clone?

[dotdotdot!]

In the game, you get Marth first, and I think hes a more important character to the FE series, so I think Roy is officially the "Clone."

[Falling Whistness]

I thought that Roy was the clone?

It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing.

[The Burrito of Time]

Roy's the clone.

[asianpride3491]

Roy's the clone.

...Because they said all clones were added last minute, and when you have all the characters, you can easily see all clones are on the ends and slightly lower than their adjacent clone-hosts. Roy is the clone of Marth, unless you believe that development patterns are completely random.

[cowwa-f'n-bunga]

Marth has already been modified in the PAL version of Melee. He was made lighter, and his dair was made into a meteor, and therefore cancelable. There may have been more changes, but these two alone make him far more balanced. As for his f-smash, all I can say is that lots of characters have good moves, deal with it.

[xianfeng]

Roy's the clone, Marth is the original

[Diddy Kong]

Dunno who the hell unlocked all those characters for you but Roy is the clone and Marth the original.
Theres a bigger change Roy will disapear because Marth was in the first Fire Emblem and the 3th.

Sure Marth should be powered down. He was ment to be a quick swordsman not a powerfull killermachine. I own the PAL version and gladly I do cuz Marth (which I heard not really experienced myself) in NTCS is waay overpowered.

[Meyeselph]

I play as Marth rather regularly in the North american version and I have to say I agree with all the arguments. He is a very stong character and that's why I used him. I think he could stand to be a little lighter in brawl and you can nerf his smash attacks a bit to around shiek level (maybe a bit lower...particularly shiek's up smash is a killing machine) . As long as his air game isn't nerfed too hard by a fast fall i'll still use him since I'm mostly the hit and run kind of guy. I think his hit box should still be a distance game because that's what makes him unique and that's what my playing style is based around. Just make it harder on me by reducing damage and smash back to compensate. That way I can still use my tactics without upsetting game balance. If they take him down as many pegs as fox got taken down in melee though (fox was my 64 character) then i'll just have to find a new character use. Looks like i'll have some decent options. Still I would prefer to avoid such a drastic restructureing of Marth that I can't use my tactics. If his B moves get changed I would love that though. I hardly ever use them in melee.

[WindGuru]

They would never remove Marth or Roy. After all, they practically sold Fire Emblem to the U.S (don't forget Europe too...), and the fan outcry would be incredible. I agree however, that Marth should be 'nerfed'. He seems powerful enough as it is, with ridiculous tippers and double fairs.

[WR3K]

dont get me started on his counter...... which lasts for 2 seconds, it should require more timing to execute

[REDfox1]

Why does it seem like everybody in this chatroom favors marth over roy? Any noob can pick up marth and become a killing machine but only a true swordsman can wield roy and plus my Roy rarely gets beat by pro marths i hope they take marth down from being top tier in ssbb cause im tired of tips......

[Kujirudo]

Lol Redfox thinks he's a pro with his Roy... Ever played against Isai's Marth then? If you win that, THEN you can say you are a pro. And if there would be an easier character to handle if I had to choose between Marth and Roy, it would be Roy since his strength is just higher and his UpB and Usmash use fire.

[Kriegsseele]

Just to tell you, Roy's the clone. But I think you already got that yet.

Okay, just a question to you... if you had the choice between 2 characters, would rather take out the one that's older (and more popular) or the one that's "fresh", brand new?

When I think back, I always thought that Roy is the easier one to play with because his "sweet spot" is easier to use for newbies and he's stronger. Other things got nerfed tho, but if they hadn't done that, Roy would be one of the best chars now instead of Marth. But IMO, clones shouldn't be better than the original.

If it comes to the counter thingy... yes, it's pretty easy to counter as Marth. But does anyone of you have the slightest idea why Roy's counter is harder to use?
Because it's stronger. If you counter a strong attack with Marth, the opponent won't fly off the stage because Marth's counter is always at the same strenght.
Roy's counter differs from each attack of the enemy.
If it's a normal, weak attack, his counter is weak, too. But if it's a powerful smash or whatever, maybe Falcons Fire Bird, his counter is da killer.
If Roy has the same amount of time for using the counter as Marth, then he would be more favorized because his counter's that devastating.

By the way, I would like to have Marth in the game. I liked Roy too because he was pretty cute, but if he gets cut for another representant of the FE series, that's fine to me.
I don't say that because I'm a Marth player, but if they'd cut Marth, they'd be pretty dumb. They should nerf him, but he has to stay in.

Well, and now for the people who are too lazy to read all:

Marth should stay. Amen.

[Kujirudo]

Marth should stay. Amen.
I have truly nothing to add.

[D.A.]

In the game, you get Marth first, and I think hes a more important character to the FE series, so I think Roy is officially the "Clone."
Marth was in Fire Emblem 1 and Fire Emblem 3. Roy was in Fire Emblem 4 and 6 I believe. But even so, Roy is a clone of Marth even in the Fire Emblem games, and Marth is stronger. It only makes sense for Marth to be superior to Roy in Smash Bros.

However, I wouldn't be suprised to see Marth toned down for Brawl, it happened with characters in the transition from SSB64 to Melee.

[ZMan]

Both Marth and Roy need to stay in, both have fans and people would be sad pandas if either were to be removed. :cry:

However, Marth needs to be nerfed a little bit. Like: make the rest of his sword less stronger than his tip, and make him lighter. Roy needs to be improved. Like: make his Dair spike a killing move, and more stronger.

[Ulti]

Roy's in 6 and makes a very brief cameo appearance in the Japanese/American versions of 7 (the scene he was in was taken out in the EU version).

Regardless, I hope they keep him, or replace him with a character with a similar playstyle. Want to make him balanced? Give his throws higher knockback and make his tippered f-smash slightly weaker knockback wise. Probably should keep his weight the same as PAL and maybe keep his d-air a meteor.
I'd keep his air-game the same otherwise.

[FroZombie]

Marth vs Roy is a joke really, no offense, in a duel if anyone knows how to use marth, they are gonna abuse roy just by out hitboxing them. Me and a friend have been long time dedicated to Roy Vs Marth and its becoming pretty obvious marth is stronger. If the skill of the two players is even, marth is gonna win simply because in that specific duel, marths range really hurts roys moves. Also roys not nearly as nimble and falls faster and his Up B isn't useful for a comeback as much as marth (in the sense that marth can fall farther and recover). Not to knock anyone who's playing as roy, I just think he gets gimped in the marth vs roy. Anyway....

I play as marth, and I do think its unfair Roy got ze boot on this one. I'm not a fan of them nerfing marth though, I HATE nerfs. They should just up roy to marths calibur and balance them accordingly - having roys hitbox be more similar (honestly, the TIP of the sword is the damage point, its basic DESIGN is that) to marths and just giving him Falco/Fox in difference comparisons rather than being so outgunned. I don't want them to nerf marth though, I just want them to leave him just about the same, and just adjust the game accordingly - same with any top tier characters. He should be a powerhouse though, he's a brawler and a warrior, think about it - the top tier characters, Fox/Falco, Shiek/Link, and Marth/Roy are all typical "warrior" characters. Swords, wars, evil, death etc. . .

Anyway, I think with meta knight and pit coming in it'll round out some of the sword classes - and I do agree on this point *maybe* marths smashes shouldn't be as uber - maybe uber still but more room for error - like a close smash being practically useless.

[MAtgSy]

My theory is that Roy will be the 1st character to be cut from the game & it'll have nothing to do with his protrayal in SSBM. The reason he was added to begin with was because he was the newest FE lord at the time but now that is very far from the case. Roy no longer has as much relevance in the Nintendo universe.

[Shazz]

Roy's the clone.

Who cares? His arguments are pretty spot on anyway.

[JPW]

I thought that Roy was the clone?

same here.

I prefer Marth over Roy. But maybe that's because Marth looks cooler, and has that more character look. He has more of a grown up influence. And his sword tactics are quite cool, and too bad to me.

[magar]

Hell No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ice X]

Well you can expect either a removal or a modification of Marth. I think one or the other is guaranteed. As far as your rant, I agree with you on the sweetspot placement, as well as it's strength. His sweetspot needs to be brought closer to his body, and its knockback needs to be reduced.

I was Kirby and got tippered by Marth on DL64 at around 20%ish and I got magnified. That's ridiculous.

wtf are you talking about? Nintendo will never remove any current character from the SSB series, GUARANTEED.

[WR3K]

^^^^ wrong, it was CONFIRMED that not all characters would return

[Meyeselph]

Marth seems to me to be more of an agile and versitle character then Roy. When I try playing as roy I can't really control the flow of the match since I have to open myself up to attacks to attack. Marth isn't easy to use well IMO. Every character in the game is easy to use half ***** but every character takes a certain amount of skill to utilise. Saying marth is for newbies is innacurate. As for Roy being more uber Just because someone's attacks are stronger doesn't make them better. Otherwise noone would ever transform into shiek when playing as Zelda. I never use a character for power reasons i'm allways more worried about mobility and attack versitility. That's why I could give a flip if a few of Marth's attacks get dumbed down to a more reasonable strength. I could even stand to have counter made into a FAIR move. (it isn't) Simply because I care more about his jump speed and the fluidity of his air attacks. That's why I can't stand fox in melee even though he is apparently just as powerful as ever. He's powerful for different reasons then in the 64 version. His ariel game is far too limited and his movements too jerky for me to use him right. Shiek was a nice holdover until Marth was unlocked but Marth seems to be the best hit and run character in the game.

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Someone wanna point me to the source where they say not all characters will return? I know all of them are "susceptible to modification," but haven't seen anything saying someone(s) getting the boot.

^^EDIT: I KNOW, I KNOW. Just saw the thread. Don't say ANYTHING!

Also, Roy kicks Marth ***. Maybe not in tier, but at least Roy doesn't wear a tiara.
No Head-wear FTW!

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Roy is the clone BECAUSE Marth has his own QUESTION MARK BOX at the
character select screen. IMO, Mewtwo and G&W should swap positions.

[Oni Shinigami]

The reason Marth is overpowered isn't because he has a tipper. It's because he floats in the air for such a long period of time he can string sword combos together like no ones business. This also allows him to have a better recovery than Roy.

If you gave Roy the same frames as Marth and move propertys...( I could short hop two fairs before hitting the ground) with Roy,I'de have no problem.

I'll tell you now the tipper is just the icing on the cake for Marth. If you removed his tipper from SSBB then I wouldn't care at all.

Remove his tip,keep his propertys,I couldn't be more happy.

[Sammy o Suburbia]

I dont know. Personally I'm a marth user, but thats simply cuz i take fast characters over strength. I think each character has their own special qualities that make them stronger against some. i.e. Fox's air flipkick. That can easily get rid of an airborne opponent. Marth might have the tipper, and the great aerial time, but he also has some bad qualities. like turning around in place, is so slow when you play against ppl that know how to use fox. And irregardless of what place a character has on the tier list, when in the right hands they can become an unbelievable character. I don't think that any of the characters should be removed, but i would be crippled as a player if i were to lose marth, so i guess if one or the other woudl have to go, i'd like to see roy go and replaced by ike

[SSJ4Kazuki]

They are taking some characters out.

[Sammy o Suburbia]

Well yes I know that, but that doesn't mean they're taking marth and roy out specifically. I'm just saying that i would love it if they didnt take any out

[ROBERT2K95]

I like them both,but I would but Roy as my first pick to stay.

[stancosmos]

did you get beatin by a marth recently?

Sure hes really good, but so is fox and sheik, taking out a character for being one of the top 3 is obserd.

[Sammy o Suburbia]

I agree that it woudl be absurd to take out any of the members from the top tier. My opinion is that pichu shoudl most defnitely go, i dont know anyone else tho that really deserves to be out

[Ice X]

They are taking some characters out.

ok show me where Nintendo themselves has stated that. Or if anyone has the source, you can show me too.

[Pecans]

It's quoted on SmashBlog at SmashBrawl.com

[GAmer1991]

^^Dang, beat me to it.
Yeah, I believe someone translated it, and it confirmed that all the characters aren't returning. (Which sucks)