Ike

[Dr. Science]

Oh i wasnt talking about the horizontal capabilities as much as the speed and power of the move, the ssbm move was pathetic in power and slow to boot, where as ikes looks relatively fast in execution after the start up lag, at least thats what i see. as far as horizontal i think that the side b is more what will be used, but it will have to be used with a lot of accuracy and timing because of the start up lag that i think is there.

[Dynamism]

Hopefully the imobilization is with the start up lag. And it looks plenty usefull but yeah, no floats. I think his ForwardB can give him some distance, at least I hope :p

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

i have yet to see his side-b. no videos right? just description.

[Dr. Science]

its shown in the one video on defino plaza.

he charges for a second (possible charging feature?) and then dashes forward and slashes.

[lanky_gunner]

more information on Ike, from the official firsthand thread in General Discussion, but from some guy on gamefaqs or something

I'm here at the E for All PRes room and I've just played 3 rounds of SSBB. What details do you want me to find out for you?

Here are my reports in Ike:

Definitely slower than Marth...maybe even Roy. Partially due to gamespeed being lowered from Melee.

Foward Smash Attack is a huge two handed swing that leaves you open for a long while. Not, good in that respect.

Down+Special equals counter. Can counter projectiles too, according to Nintendo rep but I don't know if he'll bat it back or not. He flashes blue when he performs it.

Foward + B is a rush attack and it can be charged.

B (special) standard is something similar to Marth/Roy's standing special and can also be charged.

Up+B is Aether. Similar to Kirby's attack except he throws his sword up and stays on the ground until the sword reaches the peak of the thrown, then he brings it down like the latter part of Kirby's up+b special. it's cool in that you can safely attack aerial attackers with this but you're open on the ground during the animation the whole time.

Dodge is quick, and good. His back roll isn't a roll, rather, it's like Mewtwo's backdash. Not sure on front roll.

His final smash is "Shinkuu Aether." Starts out like Aether except he continously attacks the person in the air and then sends the person slamming down onto the floor before Ike follows on top with a finishing blow.

I'll try to be more specific as to Marth and Roy differences on next play through. Marth users will be dissapointed at Ike's speed and how long his smash attack leaves him open.
---
"I grow tired of the foolish foolery of the foolish fools of this foolish country. . ." - Franziska von Karma (PW:AA:JFA)

yep, lovin Ike more and more everyday. his Final does sound ******

[Kigai]

The B standard special that the person was talking about was the eruption attack, so its not exactly like Roy or Marth's...

[raphtmarqui]

Why the hell does Ike have a lot of made up special moves and not moves that he actually had in PoR (like that long range waveslash thing.

[Zevox]

Why the hell does Ike have a lot of made up special moves and not moves that he actually had in PoR (like that long range waveslash thing.
A number of people who played as him commented that that move looked like his critical hits from PoR. That would mean only Eruption is totally made up (since counter is a move any warrior could reasonably have).

Zevox

[-Knux-]

So... Anyone found ANY videos on Ike's FS OR Counter? I would like to see either in action.

[GenG]

There's a video with Ike in Norfair and he does counter, but not countering anything actually.

Everybody says Ike's slow but powerful, and he has several no flinch frames here and there. So the key for Ike will be memorizing those no flinch frames to deliver your attacks. Aether is awesome but is difficult to recover with it, you have to use it just below the edge to step on the stage, because Aether won't grab the ledge. At least, they can't interrupt it.

[-Knux-]

That's what is lowering my hopes... Ike is slow... And Aether covers VERY little horizontal distance.

[Seiya]

Aww man...Ike has bad recovery. I can't picture how Aether would look in the air. I hope there'll be something that will help him to recover >_<

[GenG]

Ike will be a difficult character to use. He's slow, but is powerful and has a lot of no-flinching frames through his whole moveset as Gimpyfish said. Is a clever and interesting character.

Aether has no horizontal distance, but I think the forward B will help with that. If you can place Aether correctly, nothing will stop you. Other characters' recoveries may be frustrated, but Ike won't if the player knows how to place it.

[Titan05]

So you have to keep his *** on the stage.
I like the idea of no-flinch frames. I don't remember that being common in Melee. It would really help him out since he is apparently so slow.

[Terywj]

according to dojo, heavyweights like bowser and dk have no-flinching frames too...

[Zevox]

It was more than uncommon in Melee - it was nonexistant. The only time attacks didn't flinch you was if the attack itself was designed not to (as with Fox's blaster). Its a new concept for Brawl, and one which will hopefully help out the slower, stronger characters like Ike or Bowser.

Zevox

[Nintendo_lord]

Ike's gameplay looks way like Marth's. I'll play as him since Marth won't be in the game.

[Zevox]

Ike's gameplay looks way like Marth's. I'll play as him since Marth won't be in the game.
Since when did a slow, strong character look like he had similar gameplay to a fast, light one? Seriously, just comparing the videos we have of Ike to my own experiences with Marth, its plain the two are nothing alike.

Zevox

[EPX2]

Ike's gameplay looks way like Marth's. I'll play as him since Marth won't be in the game.

You haven't got the slightest clue as to what the hell you're talking about. *facepalm*

[Lunadis]

Even being an avid Fire Emblem veteran, I rather have Marth being replaced by Takamaru (from Nazo no Murasame Jo), and giving the second Fire Emblem slot to Micaiah or any other caster. A lot of people feed me that "the Fire Emblem symbol is the falcion, so Marth has to be in!" which isn't completely true. I think just about every Fire Emblem game has swords that are exact or near replicas. That and it's the best symbol to represent the series. The Fire Emblem itself changes nearly every game so you can't use it as an icon.

Anyways, I can acknowledge there are difference between the properties of Ike and Marth's attacks, but most of them just seem like "improved versions". Counter has stayed the same but apparently works on ranged attackers (Ragnell's ranged attack?). Eruption gives a better option than the downsmash. Aether, while being completely vertically inclined, throws the sword up to hopefully cut off the path from edgeguarders and lastly, his forward B is actually closer to Shield Breaker than Eruption, but now it can close distance with ranged attackers.

I think the quality of Marth and Roy will be dispersed over Ike and Takamaru. Takamaru will have more original special moves while having fast sword play like Marth did, while Ike has slow yet explosively powerful attacks with vibrant swinging motions that cover a large area.

In Melee I play an advanced Roy in melee with reasonable mastery over every advanced technique, but even then I'm more than happy to have him replaced by a cooler Fire Emblem character.

[Zevox]

Rhetorical Query: Why on earth would the inclusion of a character from an utterly separate series prevent Marth from being included as a Fire Emblem rep? Takamoru's presence or absence has no more effect on the Fire Emblem characters in Brawl than does Young Link's or King Dedede's.

Zevox

[Lunadis]

Rhetorical Query: Why on earth would the inclusion of a character from an utterly separate series prevent Marth from being included as a Fire Emblem rep? Takamoru's presence or absence has no more effect on the Fire Emblem characters in Brawl than does Young Link's or King Dedede's.

ZevoxIt's not the same universe, but the fact it's an agile swordsman that would bring more variety to the Brawl. Marth would need remixed special attacks to make it in, as well as changing many of his already existing attacks to be less like Ike. Or instead you can put in a character who has a multitude of unique abilities as well as an even more radically different fighting style. Your comparison between Young Link and King Dedede took my message out of context since I used characters with similar traits which you blalently ignored.

They could put in Ike, Micaiah and Marth. Ike being the slow powerful swordsman, Micaiah being a caster, and Marth... getting even more moves madeup and a redundant emphasis on a series when they could better capture a similar character who has more unique abilities to draw from? I don't think so.

[Zevox]

It's not the same universe, but the fact it's an agile swordsman that would bring more variety to the Brawl. Marth would need remixed special attacks to make it in, as well as changing many of his already existing attacks to be less like Ike. Or instead you can put in a character who has a multitude of unique abilities as well as an even more radically different fighting style. Your comparison between Young Link and King Dedede took my message out of context since I used characters with similar traits which you blalently ignored.

They could put in Ike, Micaiah and Marth. Ike being the slow powerful swordsman, Micaiah being a caster, and Marth... getting even more moves madeup and a redundant emphasis on a series when they could better capture a similar character who has more unique abilities to draw from? I don't think so.
Since when are the moves and abilities the reason a character gets put in? I seem to recall two distinctly different medium-heavy swords wielders in Melee - Link and Roy. And two similar-yet-not-cloned mid-weight plumbers in both previous games. And two pink puffballs with very similar jumping ability and standard attacks. And two floaty, light-weight princesses in both Melee and Brawl. And two flying, light swords-weilding newcomers in Brawl (Pit & Metaknight).

The characters' in-game abilities are irrelevant to their inclusion in the game. They facilitate the character's presence, and nothing more. It is the characters themselves who matter, not their abilities.

Besides, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Ike's abilities are already quite different from Marth's. The only similarities in their specials are counter and the fact that both of them have chargeable B moves (a similarity they share with many other characters, such as DK, Samus, etc). The only similarities in their standard moves are that both have several wide, sweeping sword strikes, but there again so too does Link, and no doubt so too will any sword-wielder we see. There are only so many ways to swing a sword, just as there are only so many ways to throw a punch or kick, so its inevitable that some standard attacks between characters are going to look similar.

Zevox

[Lunadis]

Since when are the moves and abilities the reason a character gets put in?That is once again out of context. That is far from what I said. Takamaru could just offer everything he can and more, while pleasing more fans, and have far more unique potential.I seem to recall two distinctly different medium-heavy swords wielders in Melee - Link and Roy.Excuse me? Why are you comparing them by weight class? When did I only compare them by weight class? Link is a projectile artist with moot melee combat. You completely ignored his qualities to make it sound like I asserted false ideals.And two similar-yet-not-cloned mid-weight plumbers in both previous games. And two pink puffballs with very similar jumping ability and standard attacks. And two floaty, light-weight princesses in both Melee and Brawl. And two flying, light swords-weilding newcomers in Brawl (Pit & Metaknight).Once again, this is being very vague and foggy. This only puts more emphasis that the characters we already have are far more different. For example, you're comparing an aerialist plumber or aerialist puffball. I never once said that just because they look similar, they can't be their own character.The characters' in-game abilities are irrelevant to their inclusion in the game. They facilitate the character's presence, and nothing more. It is the characters themselves who matter, not their abilities.But the thing is, there are only so many ways you can implement a fast swordsman. At the same time, you need to have regard to Fire Emblem fans. You can get more for your money by putting in more variety of the Fire Emblem series, while still paying tribute by giving said qualities to a character from another game or series that also has more potential instead of remixing more attacks.Besides, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Ike's abilities are already quite different from Marth's. The only similarities in their specials are counter and the fact that both of them have chargeable B moves (a similarity they share with many other characters, such as DK, Samus, etc).I pointed out enough about this in my earlier post. The forward and down specials are upgraded versions of the moves Marth and Roy had in melee. Eruption and Aether are to compliment Ike and make him a more original character.The only similarities in their standard moves are that both have several wide, sweeping sword strikes, but there again so too does Link, and no doubt so too will any sword-wielder we see. There are only so many ways to swing a sword, just as there are only so many ways to throw a punch or kick, so its inevitable that some standard attacks between characters are going to look similar.You made it sound like I'm one of those people who think there are too many sword wielders, which I never once said. Link in reality has slow-medium short-ranged sword strokes that cannot hold its own without projectiles, Ike is a power hitter with great attack range and flinch immunity. This is putting words into my mouth, and not giving a real comparison to my character suggestions.

[Zevox]

That is once again out of context. That is far from what I said. Takamaru could just offer everything he can and more, while pleasing more fans, and have far more unique potential.
My point was that what the character "has to offer" or his "potential" (implication in both: his in-game abilities) is irrelevant. Its the character himself, and whether he makes a good representative for his series, that matters. Marth, plainly, is above any other Fire Emblem character in that regard, which is why he should be in. Whether his in-game abilities are similar to Takamaru's is utterly beside the point.

Excuse me? Why are you comparing them by weight class? When did I only compare them by weight class? Link is a projectile artist with moot melee combat. You completely ignored his qualities to make it sound like I asserted false ideals.
You compared Marth and Takamoru as agile swordsmen. Is that not a weight-class issue as well, since agility tends to be one part of being light-weight?

Once again, this is being very vague and foggy. This only puts more emphasis that the characters we already have are far more different. For example, you're comparing an aerialist plumber or aerialist puffball. I never once said that just because they look similar, they can't be their own character.
You're missing my point. Each of those characters has similarities at least as much so as Marth and Takamaru - just as those two are agile swords-widlers, Peach and Zelda are floaty, fist-and-foot fighting light-weight princesses. Just those two are agile swords-wielders, Jigglypuff and Kirby are small, float-jumping puffballs with mostly short-range kick and punch attacks. And so on. If those sets of characters can share general characteristics (not merely appearance, but actually in-game abilities) and yet not only still get in, but be perceived by everyone as being so unique from each other, why on earth is the argument that Takamaru and Marth both being agile swordsmen means only one can get in a sensible one?

But the thing is, there are only so many ways you can implement a fast swordsman.
So what? Why does that matter at all?

At the same time, you need to have regard to Fire Emblem fans. You can get more for your money by putting in more variety of the Fire Emblem series, while still paying tribute by giving said qualities to a character from another game or series that also has more potential instead of remixing more attacks.
As I said, theres no need to remix Marth's attacks - they're already perfectly unique. Just make the newcomer Takamoru's different from his and you're all set. Or don't - who cares if the two are similar so long as they're not clones?

I pointed out enough about this in my earlier post. The forward and down specials are upgraded versions of the moves Marth and Roy had in melee. Eruption and Aether are to compliment Ike and make him a more original character.
No, his down special is Marth/Roy's, probably with some subtle physical differences we don't know yet (not necessarily upgraded). His side special is utterly unrelated - Marth and Roy unleashed a series of combo attacks with that, Ike charges up a dash attack. Aether is in because its an ability of Ike's straight from his game, and Eruption was simply made up.

You made it sound like I'm one of those people who think there are too many sword wielders, which I never once said. Link in reality has slow-medium short-ranged sword strokes that cannot hold its own without projectiles, Ike is a power hitter with great attack range and flinch immunity. This is putting words into my mouth, and not giving a real comparison to my character suggestions.
You stated that Marth would need remixing to differentiate him from Ike. I indicated why this is not so and added broader reasons why it may appear to be so on the surface, giving examples to support my statements. How is this putting words in your mouth?

Zevox

[Saph66]

Why not stop fighting and stop making long pointless posts for no reason, and lets talk about Ike instead.

[RapeFalcon]

Is Ike really slow?

[ZenJestr]

they technically ARE talking about Ike....

[Zevox]

@ RapeFalcon - So we've heard. Theres conflicting versions of just how slow - one person said he only might be slower than Roy, another that even from a Bowser player's perspective hes quite slow - but everyone agrees that in general hes the slow strong type.

they technically ARE talking about Ike....
Yeah, he manages to work his way in. The discussion would probably be better off in a Marth, Takamoru, or general character prediction thread though.

Zevox

[-Knux-]

@ RapeFalcon - So we've heard. Theres conflicting versions of just how slow - one person said he only might be slower than Roy, another that even from a Bowser player's perspective hes quite slow - but everyone agrees that in general hes the slow strong type.

Zevox

God I hope it's the former... I REALLY hope Ike isn't THAT slow...

[Zarckoh]

Woah, new subforums =O

At the videos that I saw I don't think that Ike is too slow, but what I don't like is his recovery that works kinda like Luigi's up B because it doesn't gets much horizontal distance.

[Hydde]

His Fsmash seems indeed VERY slow.... but it seems to be used more tactically than spamwise like marth`s (and it was dangerous to spam it anyways).

Ill say that the players need to get more adapted to his style. I saw some of his fights and evcen when im not and Ike fan... or a fan of slow players... i admit that i saw some good potential in him. We need to rememebr that he have a lot of super armor moves... so this means he will have some thingis to back his slowiness.
We also need to remember that he have tilts also,, and very strong ones.

[NukeA6]

Ike is slow? That must mean no Black Knight. And if he is slow, then I guess I will main him along with Bowser and DK.

[Saph66]

He doesn't seem that slow to me. He also seems a bit floaty.

[tennisthehilife]

I don't care if hes slower than bowser, I always loved two-handed sword style fighters especially in animes. He may be even low tier from what I heard but I want to main him and Kirby.

[crotch protector]

I don't care if hes slower than bowser, I always loved two-handed sword style fighters especially in animes. He may be even low tier from what I heard but I want to main him and Kirby.

tennis IS the life.

ike is teh hawtness.

[Conformal_Invariance]

He looks quite fun to play, and I think he's not quite as slow as people are making him out to be.

Still, what's fast and what's slow is relative to a person.

He may be 'fast' to a few, and 'slow' to others.

[-Knux-]

I'll just have to see when Brawl comes out. ^^ I'm sure he has potential. If he's slow, so be it. If he's not as slow as everyone portrays him to be, good. CI does have a point. It just depends on the view of each person.

[Marthgreil]

I doubt Ike is that slow. He won't be the fastest however I think he will outspeed DK and Bowser.

[Rockettrainer]

Ike isn't slow, but his moves do seem to have some amount of lag. Still, his recovery seem the be his weakest point at the moment. And his Counter seems to come out extremely fast and lasts about as long as Marth's.

Has there been any vids of Ike's Counter actually connecting? It would be interesting to see what the result is...