ICE CLIMBERS to replace samus on da tier list...

[ChozenOne]

they own Falco, C Falcon, Shiek... Even with fox; and Peach is their only top tier issue. Why arn't they higher than samus...

[AzN_Lep]

Well first off the tier list is pretty old, so even if they should be higher, they're not yet.

Top:
Sheik
Fox
Marth

Upper:
Peach
Falco
C. Falcon
Samus

High:
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
Ice Climbers

Aside from that. IC do well vs Sheik, Falco, and Samus above them. They don't do well vs Fox, Peach, Samus, Jiggs, and Ganon (to an extent); and they break about even with Mario/Doc, I personally give the edge to Doc but that's just me. From where I'm lookin at it, yes they do well vs some c haracter above them on the tier list, but the majority of characters above IC do well or counter them. I think that IC are pretty good where they're sitting, if they were to move up I would only suggest to move one or two spots.

[Dern]

I'd say it's because in comparison with the higher tier characters the ICs have more glaring weaknesses

I.E.

bad air game
most combos dependant on having nana around (smart players knock her away/out)
questionable recovery (depends on whom you are fighting)

[audreyh]

dern's right about the cons... but azn...I agree IC don't do well against samus and peach... but Fox? its definately at least even (i prefer to think its +1.5 IC on a 5 pt scale)

killaor says IC rape jiggs,
ganon, 1 grab = death, easy edgeguard

[Buddha]

how exactly do they rape falco??? and why so more so than fox??

i see how everyone else mentioned is owned by ICs (cf, sheik, ganon) because its basically chaingrab ftw, even with correct DI its a guaranteed chaingrab. not so w/ falco, which is why i ask... bc the dair-chain can be broken out of if they DI correctly correct?

[AzN_Lep]

Play a really good Fox with IC, then tell me IC counter Fox. As for Falco, Falco's shine doesnt separate you climbers or kill Nana right away. I'm not saying Fox rapes IC, or that IC rape Falco, the match is just favored that way in higher levels of play. Both Fox and Falco can DI and shine from d-throw d-air, but if you follow their DI with Nana, you can still chain throw them. I'm not so sure about IC rapind Jiggs, Killaor might have just been talking about Chu, you can't really include Chu with the rest of IC players. That's like putting Ken with the rest of the Marth players.

[ChozenOne]

Their dash attack is absolutly insane, and allows for comboing fastfallers to da max. They can chaingrab many a' playable character, and if you get a grab in against someone at 75% they're done... IC's can also combo falco from zero to death... not easily with DIing but it can be done... at high levels of play. Most Falco players will tell you that there is no way for a good Falco to beat a good IC player, however Falco can win against every match up if he picks his stages accordingly... except against IC's. IC's counter Falco cause of their insane ability to combo him, but also because his shine does not affectivly separate them... Foxes does, and his recovery is better; at higher percents the comboness of the IC's is non existant, but all they need to do reguardless is mindgame a grab in.

ChozenOne Out...

[KAIYO]

Samus > IC, sorry to say. IC's are my main and they own alot but samus can seperate them instantly. Her projectiles may get a little stressing sometimes, and when they grab her ( i think i read this somewhere before), she can DI out the easiest. Also, samus has the best recovery in the game and projectiles with most knockback, so she's probably a tiny bit above IC's. That doesn't mean you should stop playin IC's vs samus. You might be at a little disadvantage, but look at CHU, he plays anyone with IC's.

[mcc]

i think ice climbers should be near the top of the high tier. maybe the reason they arent is because there aren't as many people that are great with ice climbers

[N1c2k3]

Hardest matchups for me are Peach, then Samus, then Ganon, for reasons already mentioned...

[eugey]

Another slight difference between fox and falco is that falco's SHL isn't quite as effective since Nana can sometimes absorb hits for Popo.

As for Ganon, it's sort of a touchy matchup, I think. Except against really good Ganon players, IC's have a definite edge because of their ability to chain grab. However, against a good Ganon that spaces well and doesn't miss L-cancels, grabbing is pretty tough to do. Not only that, but Ganon's range and his ability to really mess up Nana if they get separated can be really brutal. And if you ever need to use your squall hammer to recover, just about all of Ganon's aerials can hit through it.

Not sure what I think about Jigglypuff. I think IC's have the advantage, but I don't think it's a huge one.

[ChozenOne]

I've been sayin that IC's should replace samus's place on the tier list, not to use IC's against samus... isn't that suicide... Maybe playing a peach is a better option :)

[OuiCaVa11]

Aside from that. IC do well vs Sheik, Falco, and Samus above them. They don't do well vs Fox, Peach, Samus, Jiggs, and Ganon (to an extent);

so wait. do they do well against samus or not?

either way... i dont see why people get all worked up over this tier list stuff... the tiers are just a guide to who is likely to win in a match against a random other character, not who is the better character, and not who has the most potential to be good(like ICs and chu)

[Izlude The Great]

Im not sure they should move all the way up to where samus is, but I could see them passing mario, and MAYBE ganon, but passing doc seems a little unrealistic.

But they do do really well against ganon, fox falco, falcon, and do pretty well against mario and to a certain extent doc.

Against fox and falco 1 grab should mean death for fox/falco since its quite easy to blizzard chain-grab to about 70% which a downsmash will make for an easy edgeguard but then again grabbing a fox can be really hard and chances are the shine will seperate the climbers really quick. so even with there chain throws and other comboes they still have weaknesses.

But like i said i could see them moving above mario.

[SMB PORTAL]

so wait. do they do well against samus or not?

either way... i dont see why people get all worked up over this tier list stuff... the tiers are just a guide to who is likely to win in a match against a random other character, not who is the better character, and not who has the most potential to be good(like ICs and chu)

Well said.

But, the Ic's are my main and I feel that they should be moven up, but it's not going to affect me if I can do well against someone else.

On the other hand, mentioned above somewhere I noticed something about splitting the ice climbers up as being something awful. You can say that it does have it's cons but that is the reason I try to kill nana off on purpose and try to work on just plying with popo. Actually, I find that sometimes I feel better without her, but that is because I took the time to overcome that weekness.

I would love to see them go up a bit, but let's not get to serious about it. It's a list for who is likely to win, but it can't tell the future or who is a better character.

-SMB

[Kirby's Taunt]

I guess IC are a bit too low, but them being underrated makes victory taste even sweeter ^_^ The only ones I've got problems with are Peach, Samus and Falco to a lesser extent...

[ChozenOne]

what did i tell you'all... OWNED

[PopeOfChiliTown]

haha *high five*

[/\/1/\/J4]

... but still. Since i play against falco on a daily basis i have not that much trouble against them. Peach isnt that hard to go against either. Mario cuts it about even and gannon isnt hard to go against at all. Characters i most have trouble with is cpt falcon, samus, shiek.