Importance of SH Jump Canceling shines??

[Volasko]

I always seem to use the control stick to jump cancel my shines while pillaring, I dont know why but I find its the most natural feeling. I can jump cancel with the X button(but only when WDing out of the shine) but find my self subconsentially using the control stick.

-I ask the pros how important is it to be able to SH jump cancel my shines??
-What characters does SH jump canceling work well against and to what percents?
-What move is usually used after the SH to continue the combo.

I would like to know this as I believe that I get by just fine full jumping my shines to pilar but am left wondering if I am missing out on something that can help my Faclo.

[mathos]

The problem is people have a MUCH easier time evading a full jumped shine. When you start to pillar correctly the timing for your opponent to roll and sidestep become exponentially harder. (full jump spike to shines are pillars)

[Kragen]

I'm no pro, but maybe I can help.
-It is pretty important. Because Falco's shine makes opponents go upwards, and only the beginning of the shine does that, the rest of the time you have your shine up is wasted. JC the shine is faster then waiting to the end of the shine. It's a bit like L-cancelling, it seems pretty useless, but when you get better, you'll see that you have too much lag if you don't L-cancel/JC the shine.

-Everyone, because it's useless if you just wait there until your shine ends. In terms of atacking right after, logically, it would be Samus and Peach, because they're floaty, so they can dodge the double shine/aerial by DIing. And Kirby and Jiggs, they can jump out of the stun (could be false, I'll check this out).

-Normally the move would be a Dair, so you could start the whole thing again. However, you could also double shine. It looks pretty flashy and is just another possibility you should consider. You have more chance to miss the shine than the Dair, though.

[mathos]

Well i can't think of percents but you can pretty much double shine everyone but luigi, assuming they don't have crazy DI. The floatier and lighter the character the harder it becomes to double shine them.

[zolt4r]

Its used for quick combos, if you wait for the shine to end, there may not be enough time to pull off a combo.

Also, you can think of it like L-Cancelling, it speeds up your gameplay, and is quite important for shine > Whatever you want combos.

Plus, if you miss the shine, you can JC it to avoid damage from the enemy while your shine delay is still going on..

[NJzFinest]

-sh jc shine to b-air = free KO at high damage, sh jc shine to d-air leads to a good tech chase mind game (high damage) or setup (low damage)

-the think about sh jc shine + aerial is that, it's basically like a shine + sh or full jump aerial cept you can immediately attack the oppenent with an aerial...so it still combos at higher damages

and yea, sh jc shine is also easy to set up in a SHL appoarch and it's just plain quicker than going up to your oppenent, do a d-air, shine, the jump. also, you dont need to worry about being sheild grab and it's good finish with a waveland if you u miss. of course, d-air + jc shine is better overall though....

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

this is confusing. pretty much everyone is having a different interpretation of your post.

are you talking about sh, then shining in midair, then immediately jumpcancelling the shine into an aerial attack?

or are you talking about shining on the ground, then sh'ing out of it?

it sounds like you're talking about the second one. (if you are talking about the first one, read foxandfalco's post, he responded nicely regarding that)

if you're talking about the second one, well...there's another problem. you described "pillaring" as shines combined with full-jumped aerials. you're probably thinking of the shine->fulljump dair->shine->fulljump dair combo. while this is an effective combo, this is NOT pillaring.

pillaring means doing shine->shffl'ed dair->shine->shffl'ed dair on a SHIELDING opponent, as a way to wear down their shield and pressure them.

...

so regarding your original question, "is short hopping out of shines important?"...

well yes, it is important. since pillaring requires shffl'ed dairs, you need to sh out of shines in order to pillar.

also, some people actually like to combo dairs from shines by doing shine->sh->double jump dair->shine->etc. i've seen only one person do this, but it seemed to work.

...but there's ONE MORE thing. following the opponent's DI after they get hit by the shine is easier if you actually use =waveshining= and do a wavedash out of the shine in order to better track the opponent. watch Soldier of Fortune (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-468761375780546620) to see this in action.

So unless you're proficient at waveshining without using X/Y (which is crazy), you should probably jump out of all your shines using X or Y.

...i think that covers everything i had to say.

[Kragen]

I've just figured something out. It's in theory possible to hit the opponent with a double, as long as you react fast enough. I've been acting wrong by measuring my reaction time, while you need to find the limits of the engine (you need to seek the border where the opponent is higher then the time that the shine needs to be up + the time it takes to reach the opponent).

Practically, that list of mine is bull****. Where I can't hit Cpt. Falcon with a double shine, you can, because you can react faster.

What fool I am. :ohwell:

[Volasko]

heh wow nice responces, apprieciate the the effort taken guys. Ok Ill admit that I thought Pilaring was doing d-air to JCed shine to d-air and on and on. I didnt realize it was purely for putting pressure on a shielding opponent by SH out of the shines. Anyways advice well noted!