Falco vs Fox

[OMG its E]

Hello, I'm kinda new here so I just wanted to know whats the best things to use against a fox. Neither of us are very advanced, I can WD about 70-80% of the time. However, He is kinda Shine Happy, is there anyway I could punish him for shinning soo much? Thanks in advance.
.::E::.

[phanna]

If he's not very advanced, you could probably own him just by down-throw chaining, since he probably wouldn't know how to get out of it. Practice throwing fox down then immediately re-grabbing him for another downthrow. Other than that, practice pillaring and approaching with laser spam. Use bairs a lot too.

[Kyo Kusanagi]

When you do shine fox with falco, that instantly gives you the chance to reverse the match even with DI, but its kinda the same with fox.

[bornfidelity.com]

If he's not very advanced, you could probably own him just by down-throw chaining, since he probably wouldn't know how to get out of it. Practice throwing fox down then immediately re-grabbing him for another downthrow. Other than that, practice pillaring and approaching with laser spam. Use bairs a lot too.

Dthrow chaining doesn't work in PAL (European) versions.

Vs Fox, Practice your *** off to be able to do waveshine combos. Just waveshine -> shffld dair -> waveshine shffld dair -> waveshine -> random aerial = like 60%.

[OMG its E]

The fox that i usually plays doesn't really WD that much but shine whores like no tomarrow. Also if i ever try to combo him he just DI's out of it. He knows all of this stuff but he just can't do most of the combo's with fox that i've seen pro's use in some vids.

Also, bornfidelity:I'm having trouble shffl'ing my d-airs. Anything else i can shffl fine its the l-cancel that usually messes me up on the d-air l-cancel-->Waveshine but it seems too slow because i do not think i am l-canceling correctly.

[Kai_]

Really tough match up.... Laid out pretty evenly. Anyone that's "good" with them can tip in their favor. Imo, you......just have to be better than the other guy in terms of skill and reflexes.

[bornfidelity.com]

Really tough match up.... Laid out pretty evenly. Anyone that's "good" with them can tip in their favor. Imo, you......just have to be better than the other guy in terms of skill and reflexes.

10pts. for the most useless advice ever.

>_>'

For shfflng the dair, a) use cstick for the dair b) carefully watch when Falco hits the ground. You're fastfalling of course so it seems quite fast but try to really look and press L/R when he hits the ground. Shine/jump/whatever immediatly after to know whether you got the cancel correctly.
First practice the shffl itself, if that works good for you, then continue to shining, and if that works fluently, start working on just waveshining. Eventually combine it all.

[Kai_]

10pts. for the most useless advice ever.


Yeah and I'm Santa Claus.

[bornfidelity.com]

seriously... 'the better player will win' is NOT advice lol..

[Kai_]

seriously... 'the better player will win' is NOT advice lol..

Oh... I get what you mean. Sorry, I misunderstood.

[NJzFinest]

SHL and d-air + waveshine are your best friends

[bornfidelity.com]

Am I the only one who feels all warm inside when Phantasm-meteoring a Fox that tries to shinespike you? :p

[ZachSoup]

Not that advanced, huh?

There are several things that you can do to a fox that is shining predictably without going overboard on the crazy shinewave combos (which if you could pull off, you probably wouldn’t need our advice in the first place :laugh: ).

A pretty useful and easy thing to do with Falco is placing your forward smashes, especially when you have Falcos lunge of a forward smash which just seems to reach and last. This can be done when you anticipate an opponents aerial, which you can wavedash backwards to a forward smash to punish. Also, with the stunning effect of Falco’s laser, it’s really nice to catch your opponent in the air with one while your SHL so that you can follow up with a forward smash which can’t be avoided at that point (and assuming you are in range). Keep in mind as well that Falcos foot at the end of the f-smash reaches below the stage, and while it might not be the best choice when you consider the arsenal of other edge guarding techniques that he does have, it will definitely be an unexpected one (at least the first time). That is just one facet of Falco you might want to pay attention to if you can’t yet do a lot of the more complicated combos to fox.

Now as for dealing with the constant shining? I understand your pain and frustration, as my usual main is the ICs, and the woes and misery of fighting shining foxes is etched on the tears of my very soul!!!! Something that I had to pick up with the little eskimos is to read whether or not my opponent expected to hit me or shine me when I came in to attack him. Now, of course a good fox is fluid and never stays in his shine for long, but if the fox is expecting to shine you he will shine when it is unnecessary, creating a small window. This could be taken advantage of with simple forward tilts(and by the way, Falcos forward tilt has a nice reach and is good for this and even edge guarding) , short hoped n-airs, or whatever might fit the situation. The shine can only hit you if you are on top of him, so keep your shield up if he predictably aerials at you into a shine and wait for an opening, and if he is shining you from his shield, don’t bother with the aerial and go for a grab (you can repeatedly downthrown fox, you can f-throw to f-smash fox and low percents, and b-throw to forward smash as well)
Moreover being that you are the blue wonder, you clearly have more options in dealing with this beast of a move then the Alaskan punching bags have, considering you have a shine of your own. Remember, you can spam a shine as well, which works great from spot dodging an aerial or a grab. Try to not forget keeping you laser up and blasting to keep pressure, because even if he has a shine to reflect it, the lag is often enough time for you to hop the reflected laser, gain ground and resume pressure, or knock him in his laggy head if you’re close enough, (assuming you are expecting him to reflect the laser with the shine in the first place). I don’t know how advanced your SHL is, but it is important technique to learn with Falco just because it forces the opponent to divide his attention, and thus degenerate the opponents overall performance.

Phew…umm…I think I wrote too much. I hope this helps, and I hoped I tied in enough easier techniques to try to implement for your skill level. Let me know how it works out, and remember-- the shine is a move, not the WIN button. :)

[NJzFinest]

Am I the only one who feels all warm inside when Phantasm-meteoring a Fox that tries to shinespike you? :p
lol, i never do that intentionally, i didnt know that some people did

[bornfidelity.com]

well it only works against n00bs whom you've just taught about shinespike but its still funny :p

[training_master(KVF)]

got that right, It's just so heartwarming to spike with phantasm.. and sme people just hang from the ledge too long and get phantasm spiked from there.. :D that's cool too..
anyways, as someone posted before (too lasy to look who it was) if you get a shine through you pretty much have a quaranteed 50%+ damage to fox.. my best result from a 0% shine was about 70%.. :D
ofcourse the other player wasn't that advanced... also a pretty good to screw his recovery is try to hit with a laser at fox when he tries to recover from above the stage, annoying if laser hits.. :D
well yeah, that's my 5 cents for this one... pretty lame but what can you do :D

[OMG its E]

Thanks for all the reply's, it just sucks not having a GC to practice up on my smash besides on Friday's and Saturday's. Even then I really can't practice unless under pressure by 3 others trying to attack me at once spamming their B moves. So in a way I guess it is helping me to get my moves down under pressure like WD'ing and SHFFL'd D-Air's + Shine and re-use. I should be getting a GC this week and hopefully being able to practice more so I can make ppl say, "OMFGBBQ!! This guy is t3h PwNz0r." Although it may take a lot of practice I really hope that I can someday make it to an MLG event for either SMASH or HALO seeing that I am good at HALO and getting there in SMASH. Also anymore advice on any character matchup's that would give Falco trouble's would be very nice.

[a yellow turkey]

omg its e

do you have xbox live? whats your gt?

im in the same situation as you are

but i pwn halo 2

:D

lol

[OMG its E]

Yellow Turkey to answer your question No I do not have Xbox live I gave up on Halo2 the first day I played it after the updates came out. I play strictly Halo1 for Lanning and the Occasional Halo 2 at my friends house to skrew around with on live. Me and my friend have beaten pros in halo1 on their host with 70 ping if that means anything to you.

EDIT: My parents took my Live away because they said playing it for less than 2 hours a day was playing it too much and it was taking away from my study habbits. After I got my live taken away I got worse grades because I was out partying too much. I guess you sacrifice your halo then ur grades suffer. Its now summer however they still will not let me get it back. So I will probably sell my xbox to get money for other stuff that amuse me like clothes or doing fun things with my friends.

Okay enough with the offtopic stuff, when I went over to his house to practice up on some smash he switched characters all at once on my and just pwnz me with samus. He is pretty good with Samus doing the WD rocket to WD F Smash really hurts me. He is really good at ledgeguarding with Samus using the rockets timing his Homing and Smash Rockets perfectly to where I can't get back. I've tried SHL'ing him to death plenty of mindgames but they just don't seem to work. Any help guys/girls?

[bornfidelity.com]

good. sell your xbox. than buy canned food & a lot of drinks and lock yourself up for a month in your room with the canned food, drink, and smash.

and a can opener (dont forget that one!)

[OMG its E]

I edited my post above born's so look up there to give me some advice that you may have.
Thanks,
.::E::.

[bornfidelity.com]

Well first of all leave the /girls part out. This is smashboards. :p
vs samus, **** missiles. avoid, nair-cancel them, utilt combo, take him to small stages (yoshis story ftw!) etc.

[Blind]

What's wrong with all of you? Read Soup's post! Intelligent discourse! LOL PHANTASM :/

[OMG its E]

Thanks fo the advice Born, it seems that you're pretty much the only one that will supply some advice. However, I really could care less seeing that I don't even own a GC to practice anything.

[JBM falcon08]

Isn't this thread about falco vs fox not samus vs falco? OMG its E that stinks you don't have a cube, definetly buy one and practice ur *** off, smash it too good, much better than halo.

[Blind]

None of you listen! You never listen!

[bornfidelity.com]

None of you listen! You never listen!

So what's your point here?

[Fox McClowd]

Thanks fo the advice Born, it seems that you're pretty much the only one that will supply some advice. However, I really could care less seeing that I don't even own a GC to practice anything.

Then get one!:mad: .lol

[OMG its E]

Hey it takes patience because my parents won't let me spend MY money how I want to. So yeah its not all my fault that I don't have a GC. I have the money to buy one w/ extra controller mem card and game, but my parents said that I have a PS2 and an XBOX what more could I do with another system. Funny the way parents don't understand things...

[bornfidelity.com]

Get rid of the PS2 and the Box. They suck *** anyway...

Edit: to clear that up: Fat Plumber > guy named after beast with no limbs > guy with such as attitude as to refer to himself as Master Chief.
Cube > PS2 > Box. DONE

[Ryu777]

Block of text... too large...burning...eyes

If you cant do waveshine combos consistently, do what I used to do, its almost as good, but easier to escape, do a full jump, Fast Fall and L-cancel a d-air, reflect, full jump, repeat until he can almost get out of it, then add your choice of D-smash, U-smash or Over-smash

[bornfidelity.com]

Block of text... too large...burning...eyes

If you cant do waveshine combos consistently, do what I used to do, its almost as good, but easier to escape, do a full jump, Fast Fall and L-cancel a d-air, reflect, full jump, repeat until he can almost get out of it, then add your choice of D-smash, U-smash or Over-smash

OR... you practive waveshining until you can ;)

[training_master(KVF)]

or use sheik and kick some *** without skill...

[mr_roboto]

Get rid of the PS2 and the Box. They suck *** anyway...

Edit: to clear that up: Fat Plumber > guy named after beast with no limbs > guy with such as attitude as to refer to himself as Master Chief.
Cube > PS2 > Box. DONE

I agree but just so you know, Master Chief is a military rank in the Navy.

....just so you know.

[jamz]

like bf.com said, practice till u can. ur falco is not goin to be much of anything without waveshine combos

[forward]

Just play defensive. Fox is too fast for falco's offense.

Once you get a good hit tho and you get the advantage you can play aggressive, VERY aggressive, because falco has a lot of moves that lead to a lot of damage against fox.

[Mine]

I like Falco.
SHB is great, better than by Fox I think.
I never play with Fox.

[mcc]

the i play against a fox that shields a lot, but is hard to grab. my airiels never work. he shields and grabs me. my blaster just gets reflected, and fox's up throw is too quick for me to DI out of and it leads to one or two up smashes before i can get out of it.

anyone have advice?

[BrTarolg]

well as far as "shine happy" goes i cant help you too much. i suppose a BIT of specific advice is -

a> constantly SHL. you really, really want to be quite defensive - i would personally use the shine as a more defensive tool - use it to block incoming attacks or just straight out of shield <dont worry if you jump a little, because you can still double jump if you connect with the shine> lasers are great for just putting pressure on him, and waitinf for a mistake when he attacks

b> if he shines your SHL, just fastfall the lasers, and then do a SHL over your own laser. he is stunned whilst shining, so this is your oppourtunity to attack because if you stun him with a shl, you can jump over your laser and have a free hit on him <usually your own shine for a pillar combo>

lastly - practise pillar combos. get a friend to play a fastfaller <fox> - and have him DI left or right when pillaring.

you REALLY want to learn to pillar using shffled dairs, as opposed to fulljump,, because computers do not DI fully left or right. a tip to this though - is at mid percentages, ALWAYS waveshine towards the direction that fox was when he was hit by the shine.

if you are falco, and hit a fox on the right of you with a shine , it is usually pretty tough for him to DI behind you. if you wavedash towards the direction you hit him <right> then youve more than likely followed him correctly, and can follow up with a shffled dair. if he DI's left, then its simple, because he wont travel nearly as far, so you have plenty of time to shffl a dair on him.

one thing to note though - at the mid percentages, make sure you are RUNNING when you do a shffled dair, so that you have forward/backwards momentum. the reason is because dair will hit them slightly left or right, and you want to use your momentum so you land exactly where they are.

at lower percentages, similar rules can apply - wavedash in the direction of whichever side you hit fox. generally however, you are much safer with the direction, so you dont need to be running - a simple DI'ed shorthop without any momentum will do. <make sure you fastfall!>

lastly, if you hit fox with a shine at under 15%, you can jump and do another shine, and then jump again and shffl a dair. however, he will recover just before he hits the ground, so make sure you either use utilt to continue, or jump and do uair.
you can also do double shines on fox at the 60-70% mark, and if you fastfall you can get him just before he hits the ground <at this point i usually do a dsmash as it is easier for fox to recover.