MELEE FC6 Official Results! Finally finished!

[Scamp]

The game is what matters, not the money, as PC said earlier. If all you care about is how they split the money, you shouldn't be playing the game.

For everyone who has this opinion, please answer the following question(s)...

Why do people pay money to enter tournaments? Why do YOU pay money to enter tournaments?

Why do people do money matches?

Why not just have a smashfest instead?

[Cactuar]

For everyone who has this opinion, please answer the following question(s)...

Why do people pay money to enter tournaments? Why do YOU pay money to enter tournaments?

Why do people do money matches?

Why not just have a smashfest instead?


Do you really go to tournaments only when you expect to win? Do you think all 190-whatever people going to FC6 went because they thought they would win? For most of us, we know we stand no chance at making top 10 even. We go for the experience, and we pay gladly for it.

We do money matches to play the same way we would in tournament. We play better with something on the line not because it is necessarily anything of value, but because you are competing for something. It is more the satisfaction of a match well played than the money involved. You really think a scrub player would money match a pro for any reason other than the experience? The scrub knows he can't win, but he is playing for fun. And that is what the game is about.

[Fonz]

Heh, wow Scamp. Why not throw a smashfest instead? I think most people would throw a smashfest instead if they thought 200 people from around the world would show up. Tournament entrance fees basically pay for the top players to come, if they perform well enough. Everyone else is just paying to learn from them and others.

Didn't they play with no money on the line in japan? Aren't they considered better than american players for the most part? Clearly they didn't need money as a driving force to get better, and neither do most Americans. I would gladly go to major tournaments that only charged to cover venue costs, but those aren't likely to happen. I enjoy winning money at local tournaments in teams, but it's hardly my motivation.

As for money matches, there is a lot of talk of them before a tournament, but 99% of them never even happen. Some people challenge their heros to learn from them, and some people challenge their rivals for fun or pride, the money is secondary. I'm willing to bet most people at fc6 never did a money match while there, I know I didn't and neither did the people I came with.

[g-regulate]

yea i just wanna play. plus, dropping 15-30$ on a day of melee is nothing because its just money. i hate people who complain about money, id hate to go on a trip to las vegas with you.

[KM-013]

*pound* @ cactuar for raping scamps post and having good hair.

[Scamp]

We do money matches to play the same way we would in tournament. We play better with something on the line not because it is necessarily anything of value, but because you are competing for something. It is more the satisfaction of a match well played than the money involved. You really think a scrub player would money match a pro for any reason other than the experience? The scrub knows he can't win, but he is playing for fun. And that is what the game is about.


You guys misunderstand my post. I'm not asking the questions because it is my opinion. I ask because it's something I don't think is thought about enough. KM this is not a competition of any kind. I don't see how anyone can "rape" another's post. But now I'm curious as to what Cactuar's hair looks like.

G-reg, you should go with me to Vegas sometime. I'll be there right after OC-2. For the record, where did I complain about money?

Anyway, to reply to this one, the money is a straw man. You keep talking about the money, then saying the money doesn't matter. Then why is money involved at all? Does this imply that pros will only play for money?


Fonz: Tournament entry fees don't actually pay for people to come. Sure, they have a shot at making some money, but we all know for the most part time, effort, and the chance that you won't win anything makes it a poor investment for just money. And why can't you get 200+ people to go to a smashfest? Sounds like a great time.

Instead of a tourney you could charge entry to a smashfest. Maybe 20 bucks a head for all-day play and use the money to help finance anyone who came more than 200 miles to get there.

I didn't ask anything about getting better. What does that have to do with the questions I asked?

[Nite]

Well said Cactuar. I don't go to HUGE tournaments because I expect to win. Of course not. I go and glady pay my money to play big name and experienced people and for the most part, I go to have some fun. I wouldn't money match PC Chris expecting to win 2 out of 3? I did anyway just to play him and see how I do. I didn't money match Marcus and Chudat hoping to make some money, I did it for exactly the same reason. Ok, yea of course everybody wants to win sometimes, but smash is mainly about fun. At least for me it is.

[Kadiev]

Why are you trying to start an argument? If you see this as a problem then don't go to tournaments and such.

[Radnortuws]

Everyone's just jealous of my awesome placing. And Nite's post was mad cool.

[Scamp]

Why are you trying to start an argument? If you see this as a problem then don't go to tournaments and such.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm trying to expand the argument already in progress. Your little statement is exactly what I'm trying to argue against.

The smash community recently has a disturbing trend toward "I'm right, get out" arguing. No one will argue if I say that people have different motivations to attend tournaments. This goes along with how people are different in general on just about any subject matter. But what kind of arguments do I see now? "This is how the game should be played. This is the way the game should be." And so forth.

I didn't know there was a proper way to play smash that is shared by the whole community.

I merely asked a few questions. Look how defensive a few people got. The odd thing is, if you read their arguments closely, it directly conflicts with their views that sharing top 4 is okay and doesn't matter.


But if you want my direct opinion instead of vague questions to think about, I can do that too.

Didn't someone recently argue that Smash should be considered a sport? Let's look at sports for a bit. Consider baseball. Look at what happened during the all-star game that was declared a tie. A huge outcry of disappointment and general bulls**t. That clearly was not what the fans wanted to see. And this was for an exhibition game, which didn't affect the standings in the slightest.

Now consider what would happen if the two teams in the World Series decided they'd rather settle for a tie instead of declaring a winner. But it's okay because they'll play the games out anyway, just both teams will share the World Series trophy and title and all that.

I'm more with Kishprime on this one. It can't be stopped, and it's not really wrong. It's just disappointing.

I don't know what the terms were for the split, though. If they split it all equally, then I have a problem. If they changed it from, for example, 70/20/10 to 50/35/15, then I'd be totally fine with that. It's all in the context.

Now I'll consider what PC said directly. And this is to all the people involved in the split. If I were in the situation with three other people and was offered an even split, I'd only take it if I thought I couldn't beat the other three people. It's a wise money decision. If I thought I could beat the other three more often than not, then that'd just be BS for me. Unless there's some kind of outside factor where I absolutely NEED to get a certain amount, give me profit potential!

Of course, if you NEED a certain amount for something I don't know why you're raising money from Smash brothers. Anyway...

I don't see why people keep bringing up the point of only playing for fun. In a tournament, I play to win. Funny thing is, I can have fun when I'm playing to win.

Anyway, nobody needs money on the line to have fun with the game. Most people don't need money on the line to motivate themselves to play their best. However, the ones that are complaining are not the ones playing. We are the ones who want to see the World Series played with something on the line.

This is for the general point, not the specific one of FC6. I personally wasn't there. But I don't want this to become a trend.

Say, does anyone go to a smash tournament and not expect to have any fun?

Please do not quote small portions of this post and use them out of context.

[Nite]

Everyone's just jealous of my awesome placing.
OMG, Yes!! You placed amazing! How do you do it? It's alright though, I placed lower than I should have, but that's not saying that everybody that placed higher than me is better than me.

And Nite's post was mad cool.
I do like money, but I'm willing to sacrifice some for fun.

[Drephen]

if anything if i knew we were all gunna get the same amount of money why did i try my hardest to win, drephen we take the fun out of the game cuz we played with no money on the line? sorry if this game is only fun when u have money on the line then ur playing for the wrong reasons people who dont win tournaments often wouldent understand this concept so i can see why theres an outrage
GG owned harder then i did m2k in the finals

PC if you played your hardest i believe you. But I know that Vidjo would throw a match for money cause he has done it plently of times before. Chu seems like he would do it too.

We do money matches to play the same way we would in tournament. We play better with something on the line not because it is necessarily anything of value, but because you are competing for something. It is more the satisfaction of a match well played than the money involved.

This is exactly what the finals should be like. It makes the match that much harder knowing that you are not playing for just placing but something else that is on the line, money, hair, whatever. When pressure is on everyone's playing is totally different and outcomes wont be the same.

[Cactuar]

Your argument means nothing. Just an observation. You are asking people not to quote small portions of your post, the only reason that should be a problem is if it can't support itself. Which it doesn't. And by small portions, I mean entire paragraphs.



Now I'll consider what PC said directly. And this is to all the people involved in the split. If I were in the situation with three other people and was offered an even split, I'd only take it if I thought I couldn't beat the other three people. It's a wise money decision. If I thought I could beat the other three more often than not, then that'd just be BS for me. Unless there's some kind of outside factor where I absolutely NEED to get a certain amount, give me profit potential!




What part of what PC said are you trying to argue with here? What does this have to do with anything? 1. You weren't in that situation, and you probably won't be. 2. PC wasn't sure he could beat the other 3 people, he already lost to one of them. You want profit potential, we don't care nearly as much about the money. You say you have fun when playing to win, who says we don't? There was no reason for saying that. We aren't only playing for fun, we are playing to prove our skill and smash prowess. The money is a bonus, but isn't our main motivation to play, which is why we are willing to split the money.

Also, your baseball comparison doesn't work. The world series trophy is the equivalent of getting first place. PC didn't agree to tie with anyone. Agreeing to share the prize money is far from tieing. If there was a trophy involved (motivation idea? even with splitsiez, players would want to win), PC would have still gotten it along with the equal prize money. PC still won FC6, not the other 3.

You point out that the ones who are complaining are not the ones playing. In this game, all of the fans are the players (another reason the baseball thing doesn't work), and it holds true all the way up to the top. I'm sure PC loves watching good matches too, but do you think he would care about other people splitting the money if he were in our position (not the top 4)? Even if he were that disappointed by it, he definitely wouldn't be so aggressively argumentative about it. He was still playing to win regardless of the deal, and I know M2K was too, as he hates losing to PC.

Your argument (at least the parts that make some sense) supports mine. The problem here is that people seem to believe that players are motivated to play well only by the money involved, when most people play to prove themselves and for fun. Just because their prize money was secured, doesn't mean the matches were any less exciting. Would they have been different if the split wasn't agreed on? Probably. Would you have been able to tell the difference? Doubtful. You say you have fun playing just to win, so do they.

Honestly, I wouldn't care if the top players at EVERY event split the prize money evenly. They can do what they want with the money. I do think these events should have another prize in addition to the money (trophy-esque, anyone see that golden controller trophy? so cool), as we are playing to prove ourselves as the best.

Just to point something out. When pro player's stats are listed, their placement in tournaments they have been to is what is in that list, not how much money they have made.

[Kadiev]

Someone call 911 we got a burn victim in hurrr snap scamp.

[Sadaharu Inui]

If I were in the others' shoes, I woulda split.

Power Rank 2 was below them all and ready to go through them all the way to 1st place. I'd gladly split to make sure that I'd still get a decent sum of money even if I lost.

[Sliq]

I'm torn on this subject....just like that one song...."lying naked on the floor"....anyways....

The fact that there is something to be obtained adds to the competitive aspect, whether it is experience, respect, notoriety, or money. That is what makes tournament play more competitive than friendlies. Now if they had split experience, respect, and notoriety, I'd be super P.O.'d right now. However, I'm fairly certain those things are intangible. That's right; they are inside an orange fruit.

..."illusion never changed, into something real"....

[Scamp]

Your argument means nothing. Just an observation. You are asking people not to quote small portions of your post, the only reason that should be a problem is if it can't support itself. Which it doesn't. And by small portions, I mean entire paragraphs.

Funny thing is, I can say the exact same thing about your post. Except that you don't ask for people not to quote small portions.

I'm not going to pick and scrape at all the things that I think are wrong with your argument. The main problem lies with perception. You say all these things with "we" which sounds like you mean everyone. Maybe it's just you and PC Chris. But you don't speak for PC, and I think it'd be a good idea if you'd stop assuming things for him. He already made his thoughts clear. Are you sure ChuDat, M2K, and Vidjo feel the same way? Would it be the same situation if Ken or Azen or any other top smasher was part of the four instead?

I would probably agree with most of what you said if there were a true guarantee that people would try their hardest all the time. Just to point something out, most of the people that constantly win tournies do not care about their track record. Usually the people who care about that the most are the ones who only get there once in a while, like me in teams.

And to point another thing out, I find it interesting that Isai and Azen have to say they're actually going to try to win an MLG tournament, as their efforts are always questioned otherwise.

One question, actually. WHY do you think I wouldn't be able to tell if a person isn't trying their hardest?

[Cactuar]

I never claimed you could or couldn't, just said you probably wouldn't be able to, it's not meant to be offensive, most people just don't seem aware of when people are sandbagging or not. I was sitting there with them when they divided up the money. And I carpooled with M2K and Chu. I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood them when they were talking about it. While I was sitting there. Right next to them.

I never said they cared about their track record either. Just that that is what is listed when stats are shown.

[Sadaharu Inui]

I was in your carpool, too, Cactuar.

It was so cute when you feel asleep on Chu. =)

looooooooooooooooolz ur ghey

[Cactuar]

Dude, you are the one who kept staring at him. While he was sleeping. Like the entire ride. I think you are jealous because I fell over while asleep.

***. :D

Edit: BTW, Chu is mad comfy.

[Sadaharu Inui]

Chu sleeps with his eyes half open and you sleep with your mouth wide open.

That's more or less what I found puzzling, sir. o.o;

[K1T3]

Scamp, good **** son. Since your arguments were actually logical and you didn't lose your temper even though you had better arguments but others were more receptive to the worse case and even said things like you got burned when in fact you were not. GG

[KishPrime]

As for actual FC results, I have not forgotten you all. They will be updated by the end of the week, but MLG Chicago took up my weekend.

[mathos]

Yay, go Prime for getting back on track. Shouldn't this arguement belong in the debate hall or pool room? It will save many people's time looking for shout outs.

[KishPrime]

I think there have only been 4 or 5 legitimate shoutout posts...

[KishPrime]

730$ for 129th place ? YAYUHHZZZZZZZ !!!!

Splitsiez !

This is still my favorite post.

Oops? Double post.

[Nite]

Both arguements were logical and reasonable, but everybody isn't going to have the same opinion about everything, and it looks like you guys aren't going to change each other's mind about it. GG guys, but I say we get back to shout-outs.

[Cactuar]

Indeed. GG everyone who went. Hope to see you all again.

[papayasown]

Lol, my shoutout for Dave is at the end of this video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mn9wUE811E4

(No, I'm not being serious at the end haha)

[Radnortuws]

Hey Ship members, I have an odd request. Is there any way you guys can get the measurements on that torpedo ball table? I was considering making one, and if I have the measurements it would be infinitely easier. Thanks.

[chillindude829]

Yeah, and also could you possibly take pictures of the torpedo ball table? That would be ideal.

[KishSquared]

What?? You want us to reveal our PROPRIETARY TORPEDO BALL TECHNOLOGY? C'mon, that's the main draw we have for FC16: The Ship is on Fire!

Ah well, we can try to get measurements, but are they really that important? It seems to me that if you make a little trench about 15-20 feet long then it'll work. Just don't forget to add carpet at the ends where the balls hit, it makes it a LOT quieter that way (you should have heard it before we added that).

I'll see what I can do for pictures. We have lots of media to sort through still - hopefully we'll be posting it at www.meleefc.com soon.

[chillindude829]

Heh, the torpedo ball games were too good. I'd honestly come back next year just for torpedo ball. :D

[Sizzle]

Lol, my shoutout for Dave is at the end of this video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mn9wUE811E4

(No, I'm not being serious at the end haha)

Your feet make a cool beat lol

[Xelic]

Lawl lawl lawl

BBAAAAAAAARRRRRR RAAAAAAAPPPPPEEEEEE

<3 <3 <3

[mathos]

When are the rest of the brackets going to be shown. I want to see everything :)

[Hoefler]

Lawl lawl lawl

BBAAAAAAAARRRRRR RAAAAAAAPPPPPEEEEEE

<3 <3 <3


If you're laughing at that then you'd definately money match me at DDR, right?????

[Wuss]

Yea ^^...
I want to know the 32 top people staindings...
Also, when can we expect the crew battles? just wondering.

[KishPrime]

When are the rest of the brackets going to be shown. I want to see everything :)

>_<

I've had stuff going on practically every night last week catching up from FC and this week catching up from Chi-town. I'll get to it sometime soon...

[Helios]

I wanna see my name in the results =(
9th place finishers ffs!

Time for my shout outs, 1½ weeks after I actually wrote them:

Wow, FC6 was an amazing experience! I'm so glad I was able to come and see all of you crazy people. My own performance in the tourney wasn't too bad either, so I can't find anything to be even the slightest disappointed with =)

Kishes - Thanks for arranging the best tourney ever. It was truely an experience, and I am definitely coming back for FC9 or whatever comes next ;)
I would also thank you guys for being so patient, no matter how many meals I had issues with =)

Team Ben - Good job helping out with the tournament! It ran pretty smoothly and professionally. A+!

Oro - Always nice seeing you. Such a nice guy in every way. Just get some confidence in yourself, and you're set!

Husband - I'm sorry we had to end up in the same pool, since you really deserved to advance to brackets. Still, our matches were good, and I enjoyed them.

Wife - Nice set in brackets. Gay stages ftl ;) It was really clutch, could have gone either way.

Kenny - You're one craxy mother****er =)

Europeans that went to FC - Good job representing Europe. It was nice having you guys around, we're almost like a small family hehe. See you guys at MLG Chicago.

Doug - Thank you so much for all the support man! Couldn't have made it without you! everything from random conversations during car rides to coaching during matches has been really fun and I'm truely thankful for it!

Doraki - Grrr! Sparken! You're one sleepy frenchie, that's for sure. Learn to call shotgun, or you'll be doomed to a future without ever riding in the front seat.
I hope you're enjoying America to it's fullest, and I see you've already evolved your English quite a bit!

Yuna - Wow, you were hardly ever mean to me at this tourney! Where is the real Yuna, and what have you done to him?! Good job almost making the brackets, you're definitely getting there. One thing though, I hear you've been doing money matches without paying up when you lost. I'm really disappointed to hear that. Bad sh!t @ making Europe look bad.

Europeans that didn't go to FC - You suck, all of you! Step it up guys! But thanks for the support, of course =)

Team SHEP/people I've stayed with - Thanks a lot for making my trip to the US possible! I really appreciate it, and I will definitely return the favour if you guys ever decide to go to Sweden!

BIGC - Thank you so much for housing us crazy Europeans! I hope we don't cause you too much trouble, and if there's anything you need help with, just let us know!
You're one funny guy, and I love your DVD collection! XD

Trail & Tink - Thanks for picking me up at the airport. I know it must've sucked ***, and I'm really grateful! Thanks guys!

Cunning - MAD crazy technical skill! O_O I don't know how you do it, but it's really impressive! Good job at placing high at FC!

311 - You're too cool dude! But you can't have my t-shirt! I'll make sure to get you one sooner or later though.

Crystal City - You guys are too cool. Haven't played you much, but you rock at drunken melee!

Dr. Drew the Dragon - You're one funny guy, didn't get to play you tho.

Changsta - Same goes for you. You're crap at drunken melee. "Oh sh*t! Oh sh*t! Oh sh*t!"

Canadians - Nice teaming up with you guys for the regional battles! We didn't really beast the other teams, but we had fun =)

Chesterr01 - Only canadian I really got to talk to for a bit. You're a nice guy, was nice seeing you. I wanna go to Canada! XD

Dave from NY - You're one crazy mofo! Too bad I had to take you out in brackets, but you had it coming ;) See you at gauntlet mangz!

Azen - Always nice seeing you! You're incredibly talented at SSBM, I just don't know how you do it. Please do everyone a favour and play marth in singles ;) I'm sure so many people would like to see that!

Chu Dat - Cool seeing you! I finally got to see your amazing IC's, and ****!! You raped me in brackets, but it was all good. Didn't really expect to beat you :P

Hyuga - Good sh*t @ being the only one travelling from WC!

Rest of WC - You guys suck!

Mikey Lenetia - Mad good Peach, you could have placed even higher! Good **** in teams!

Vidjogamer - Really impressive Peach, you're too good with the downsmash!

M2k - Good **** @ second, I wasn't expecting that! Our set in brackets was pretty cool too.

Milktea - You're too good! I hope you like the chocolate!

PC Chris - Congrats on winning the tourney!

Everyone I baaarely beat in pools - I'm sorry guys, I got soo lucky at least a hundred times this tourney. In all honesty, even I didn't think it was fair, but that's just life, I guess =/


I hope I didn't forget anyone now! I'm gonna try and survive the hell of humidity and greasy food that is the US of A for another week, and I'll see you guys at MLG Chicago!!