CounterPick Stages against pros.

[ChozenOne]

I keep entering in tournaments and everytime i do i am unable to choose the "correct" counterpick stage. We all know that certain stages are supposed to be good for Jiggs, but i just don't feel totally confident that my stage picking is totally correct. I tend to go MuteCity, and Brinstar just by instint but are there stages that are just straight up ownage for one character over another.. I keep playing semi-pros like G-Reg, Kirbstir, Aho, and KM, and don't know where to take them. I can put the effective "smackdown" on people up to that level, but i've finally hit a plateau. can we create a sort of "stage counterpick list" for jiggs??

Shiek- Brinstar, MuteCity
Fox- FD, DreamLand, Yoshi's Story,
Marth- Somewhere that you're not playing Jiggs.. ;)
Falco- FoD, Yoshi's Story (defensive), DK64, DreamLand, FD?
Peach- Brinstar, FD maybe.. *not MuteCity
Capt. Falcon- Pokemon Stadium..
Samus- Dk64, FD, DreamLand
IC's- Large Stage or Small if you're KishPrime..

[doyoung2win]

fox - DREAMLAND high ceiling = stay alive longer from his uairs and upsmashes
marth - hmmm this one is kind of tough, wider stages where he cannot chaingrab to tipper you. and with platforms for getting jumps back. pokemon stadium? mute city is always good here :P
falco- place with platforms, his lasers will rape your movement so you need someplace where you can recover when he is pillar comboing you.

meh, maybe il edit this and add more later, i can't think right now

[ChozenOne]

do you guys think Fountain is a good stage for jiggs vs. falco??

[technomancer]

do you guys think Fountain is a good stage for jiggs vs. falco??

YES.

Dreamland is OK as well; falco has a difficult time KOing there and with good DI jiggs can live good, while you're not even concerned about the far blastline.

[ChozenOne]

Where is KishPrime... He knows this stuff.

[KishPrime]

Who does Kirbstir play against you? I played him twice at FC...and I can't remember where I counterpicked him the first time. Sigh. I remember I made him switch to Marth. First match was close, second was not but he was pretty out of it. If he's playing Peach just bair and aim for the head. It generally works with Peach players. Aim a little high and space it right and she can't get off the ground, and just keep the pressure on, but don't get too close or you'll get naired. It takes patience to play this way, but it also requires precise timing for a long time. Predicting Peach's recovery and fsmashing is essential to get kills at decent %s too.

Anyway, countering Fox/Falco really depends on their style. High intensity combo-oriented Falcos you can go the survival route on with bigger stages. Defensive, laser-oriented Falcos I'd take to places like Story and FoD.

As for Fox, he can run away FOREVER on Dreamland and just keep playing hit and run on you. Not only that, but the window that you can pull of a SAS and actually kill is much smaller as long as they DI right, which good players do. Now if you know they'll just attack attack attack, then Dreamland is semi-alright. FD is better for the headstrong Fox, use the WD game to position yourself and Space Animal Slayer like crazy, but most Fox players know to wait you out. I still like Story against Fox, the platforms allow for tech-rests and give Jigglypuff good manuevering options, and you'll be able to kill with rest and SAS at 0%, but if you can't land the rests you'll be in trouble. Edgeguarding is also easier with the limited space and close edges. It makes for a quick match anyway.

For many players, it really does come back to style. Most pro Space Animals know not to charge in headfirst against Jigglypuff.

I actually don't like large stages against ICs because I don't like giving them the mobility and I hate edgeguarding them. But that's me.

Samus I do like big stages because I'm pretty good at edgeguarding her. DK64 is not bad.

Shrug. Maybe I'll post more later.

EDIT: Chozen, how do those players tend to beat you? It would help some to know that too.

[doyoung2win]

kish whats sas

[Tom nom nom nom!]

kish whats sas

I'll go ahead and answer. SAS is Space Animal Slayer; From what I've gathered its the Up Throw --> Rest combo.

Oh, and If i'm completely wrong, please correct me. ^^

[Kaizer]

Every char with poor recovery <<<<<<<<<<<<< Mute City + Jiggly

[doyoung2win]

makes sense if that is what it means, some good observations, now i like the smaller levels (even though i can get killed easier)

[Courtofdoom]

Sheik gets owned on stages that don't have ledges. Mute city is good for that.

[KishPrime]

Mute isn't bad, I personally like Brinstar a little better right now just because it's slightly easier to kill her, but I think Mute is probably the better choice once Sheik players adapt to Brinstar. It frustrates me how easy it still is for Sheik to kill Jiggly even on Mute. >_<

Ban Mute against Peach. :p

[mathos]

Even though I'm not jiggs, I would like to comment on Prime that Brinstar is not the stage to pick on Falco. Although the acid can destroy fastfallers, it is pretty easy is kill jiggs on that stage. Stick to Prime's strategy on counterpicks for Falco, just keep in mind that a lot of Falco like platform stages compared to FD or Mute City.

[KishPrime]

Yeah, you pretty much convinced me of no Brinstar this weekend. :p Some Falcos can't handle it though. Depends on their psychological makeup.

Should've gone small against Spamthos. Sigh. (EDIT: and a big lawl roffle at Mathos in the Jigglypuff forum)

On the flip side, DA Dave tried to counter me on Story and I believe I two stocked him.

[mathos]

Interesting. But on your counterpick the idea is that you win your match. With such variation on stages, you should pick one that will provide the best outcome. That is worded terrible but for instance I have 2 counterpick stages against all characters, with exception to Fox, Rainbow cruise and Poke Floats. I know I have the best chance to win on those stages. Perhaps you should stick with a particular few amount of counterpicks, because it sounds like you are leaving the door open to all stages. Specialization is key.

[KishPrime]

Shrug. I overspecialize if anything. I believe opponent style has as much to do with counterpicking as anything, but the amount of difference it really makes is small. Mostly against Fox players, I find they struggle under a large variety of circumstances. I'll get slaughtered by Squared on FoD, but almost 3 stock KoreanDJ there? It's hard to anticipate what will work and sometimes I overthink, but usually I do ok with counterpicks. With you I just thought Brinstar would be small enough, and it wasn't. :p

[Magus420]

Anyone try jungle japes for fox? I'd imagine it'd be a very good choice with the insane ceiling, a number of close ledges for ledge stuff, decent sized middle floor and top platform for techchase rest setups, platform doesn't disrupt SAS, short side blast zones, not to mention the water which will mess up fox WAY more often than puff. I keep forgetting to test it out myself though.

[ChozenOne]

Who does Kirbstir play against you?
EDIT: Chozen, how do those players tend to beat you? It would help some to know that too.
Kirbstir uses his Fox, and Marth >_<

Pretty much he's better than me so that's usually the way he beats me... or with a tipper from his marth, or up air with his fox... however the fox game is pretty close so i'm not too worried; his marth however 2-3 stocks me :(

[KishPrime]

If he's using throw combos to get you, practice DI. I can avoid 90% of throw-to-tip combos now. If he's just tipping you, that's just a mind game situation, and you'll have to figure out what opening of yours he is seeing to so consistently get you. He only played his Marth against me on Story twice, and both times it went alright, though the first match was close.

Japes against Fox isn't bad at all if you can get the lead, then you can do a lot. Random Klaptraps make it hard to wait for him on a ledge though which can often be your best strategy. The problem is that if he gets ahead, you're at his mercy as there is plenty of room and you now have to go to him. Such 50/50 battles where whoever gets the first hit in runs the match are harder, but can still pay off. All in all Japes isn't bad.

[HoChiMinhTrail]

lol i got 4 stocked on brinstar...... i fail.

[KishPrime]

rofl@Trail's unnecessary comment

[RPK]

XD Trail's comment just came out of no where I swear lol