Being Pro>Grabbing

[ChozenOne]

Sorry to sound like a ****.. but Pro Jiggs.. How do you get in a grab? and what is the best way to mindgame it in.. I played Chillin, Azen, and G-Reg today and died alittle inside when i was unable to get in a grab :( Should i just not grab.. less rising pounds? Help bring my jiggs to the next level. Grabs=Impossible at pro level of play..

[Aero]

Aho taught me this sexy way to grab a Fox and Falco coming from above. Basically, you dash out of the way so the sex kick/drill shine doesn't get you, then dash back and JC a grab. Any character can do this really, but this is a great way to get a grab on a space animal with Jigglypuff.

[Samochan]

Aho taught me this sexy way to grab a Fox and Falco coming from above. Basically, you dash out of the way so the sex kick/drill shine doesn't get you, then dash back and JC a grab. Any character can do this really, but this is a great way to get a grab on a space animal with Jigglypuff.

You mean like dash dance when they're trying to hit you with aerial? Sweet. I think I can remember Ken getting in loads of grabs that way, at least seeing him dash dance all over the place.

[S P I K E]

Too bad I've never played a pro with my Jiggz....=O But I'll keep this in mind. Wewtz.

[KishPrime]

Aeroshadow basically hits it right. I usually only grab after people get in the air, then wd back -> run forward and grab. Works best against space animals. There's no reliable way to grab anyone in the pro game because everything is spaced and timed near perfect, you just have to take advantage of positioning mistakes.

[ChozenOne]

Cool.. thanks everyone. KishPrime... I really need to play you. Come to DC

[The King]

Basically, smash boils down to rock-paper-scissors, just as many fighting games do. You've got your attacks, you've got shielding, and you've got Grabs. With attacks beating grabs, shielding beating attacks, and grabs beating shield.

While waiting out for aerial lag is one of puff's better openings for landing a grab (be it sneaking in between their aerial-to-ground transition, positioning yourself behind them when they land, or just plain shieldgrabbing), another technique that gets me many of my grabs is to simply abuse your reputation as jigglypuff.

And what is jigglypuff known for? The Wall of Pain. Relentless aerial attacks that's only a tad short of spam. And nowadays, how do many characters beat this technique? By either spacing themselves until you leave openings in your defense via your offense and then rushing in, or by sitting safely and comfortably in their shield until the time is right. Jigg's hit & run game isn't exactly the fastest in the game, so if jiggs tries to just float in and throw an aerial, jiggs ends up pretty vunerable unless it retreats shortly thereafter. And there is where the opponent capitalizes on you. But I digress a bit.

You can easily take advantage of the WoP reputation your opponent has pre-established to claim easy grabs. It just takes a bit of mixing up. Keep in mind that when it comes to the WoP, as long as you're in control of the offensive, then your opponent has two options: either sit in their shield, or keep getting hit. So should you see your opponent start to turtle, jump on the opportunity to just empty-hop in to their viscinity and grab them while they're expecting that attack.

IMO, jigglypuff has one of the most efficient empty-hops in the entire game, due to the fact that pretty much every opponent of jigglypuff expects an aerial to be attached to your jumps. Due to her moderately slow, but fluent movement through the air, you can think of empty-hopping as a way to sneak in between the beat of the match. Since they expect a certain amount of time to elapse while you're doing your aerial, and because you can close in on your opponent in seemingly half the time with an empty-hop, you can grab them just as they're realizing you didn't actually do anything in your jump. With proper patience and a good eye for when your opponent starts playing weary of your aerials, you can just mindgame them into thinking another attack is coming, and just hop right in with nothing, land, and immediately grab. Just my two cents.

King Out

[doyoung2win]

omg such a simple technique that is so effective. No wonder king does well, he is top tier in mind games. That is genius, because they do get in a habit of just waiting for an aerial. It's like how we wait for fox to do an aerial, land, and then shine before we grab him (that is if he doesn't jc into a grab himself).

I have a problem grabbing WarriorofZarona's Falco as well. He spams lasers that will hit you if you duck and then he does an aerial (usually pillar) that lands right behind you and starts up a pillar from your back side to make shield small enough to hit you. And i can't avoid him :(

[ChozenOne]

King Out
I know this sounds kind-of rediculious but you're my hero good sir. Because of you i began playing Jiggs in a competative manner and actually strive not to someday be like PC or Ken, but like you. Your mindgames, and underdog manner in matches against Marths, Shieks, and Foxs make you unbelievible. King.. you are the Jigglypuff God. Thank you for posting in my threads, and thank you KishPrime as-well. Both of your advice is always welcome. Good day sirs. This should be quite effective.

ChozenOne Out.

[Tom nom nom nom!]

Just my two cents.

:) Your two cents are always a most valuable addition to the piggy-bank that is the Jigglypuff forum!!

[ChozenOne]

:) Your two cents are always a most valuable addition to the piggy-bank that is the Jigglypuff forum!!
well put.. alway's a pleasure

[I T I]

King Out

Great merciful crap, King posts on here? Like with Chozen, you're the reason I picked Jiggs. <3

Feel free to post more often, though. :laugh:

[ChozenOne]

WoW.. all of this King Love is probably kind'of creepy for him, but hey... No Homo.. am i right. and besides.. if not King, who would i watch stroke their go-tee

[I T I]

I call for a storming of King's house.

Papparazzi FTW! :088:

On topic, I think I shieldgrab too much. My friends aren't that good at this game (Ie. I demolish them. Easily.), and can't seem to be able to counter it. So,does anybody have suggestions to wean myself off of it?

[ChozenOne]

shieldgrabbing is good.. but don't do it to an excess. up until the semipro level shield grabbing is the best way to get in a grab, and once there every part of the game is about mindgames. if your friends are actually as bad as you say then you probably need to practice wavedashing, rest combos, and aircombos... do that.. there's no such thing is too many rising pounds->Upair->Upair->Fair->Fair->Fair :)

[3141592654pie]

Hrm. I'm not really sure why you would think that ESHs would apply to just jiggs. Captain falcon, fox, and many other characters can abuse ESHs.

[Tom nom nom nom!]

Hrm. I'm not really sure why you would think that ESHs would apply to just jiggs. Captain falcon, fox, and many other characters can abuse ESHs.

You're misunderstanding the advice. He isn't saying that "ESHs would apply to just jiggs." He's saying that Jiggs has one of the best ESHs and that you should use it. (And, well, this is a thread for Jiggly advice, so of course he wouldn't have to mention everyone else with good ESHs)

Instead, he described why Jiggs' ESH is really good and the advantages of using it.

:) Hope this helps. :)

[I T I]

shieldgrabbing is good.. but don't do it to an excess. up until the semipro level shield grabbing is the best way to get in a grab, and once there every part of the game is about mindgames. if your friends are actually as bad as you say then you probably need to practice wavedashing, rest combos, and aircombos... do that.. there's no such thing is too many rising pounds->Upair->Upair->Fair->Fair->Fair :)
They're casual smashers. The type that can BARELY beat a lvl 9. My brother's not too bad with Marth as he has picked up a few things from me (WD, SG, occasional SHFFL), but still isn't as good and refuses to play for extended periods of time.

I do practice rest combos (u-air->utilt->rest is impossible for me cause the C-stick is so awkward), air combos etc but find myself relying too much on the crutch of shieldgrabbing.

I practice combos against level 9s, but not sure if this is a good idea, as it develops CPU mindgames (bad). So if I could get any advice in that realm, it would be great.

[doyoung2win]

play level 1s, they have better DI

[KishPrime]

Just out of curiosity King, do any of your vids utilize the ESL techniques? I'm curious as the the exact timing you use to sneak in, as I've never been very good at convincing an opponent to respect me without a bair in front of me. At least against Squared.

>_<

[doyoung2win]

watch the matches from the graveyard / (boneyard?) tourney with king vs forward and taj. he does it a few times there. A specific one that i found while just browsing through was the second match of the set between king and forward on mute city. the second stock. he jumps towards marth who is shielding and ff to a grab.

[Takalth]

On topic, I think I shieldgrab too much. My friends aren't that good at this game (Ie. I demolish them. Easily.), and can't seem to be able to counter it. So,does anybody have suggestions to wean myself off of it?

I occasionally do sets of games where I forbid myself from using certain techniques. (When I was learning to wavedash, I played games where I didn't allow myself to walk or run normally).

This does two things for me: one, it trains me to use different tactics in a situation where I tended toward repeatedly using a single move. This has often opened my eyes to new (and sometimes even better) ways to deal with ertain things.

The other thing it does is helps me think more in matches. My greatest weakness by far is my habit-driven gameplay. Sure, most of my habits are effective moves, but thinking opponents can figure me out in just a few games (sometimes even faster). As I have started doing this, I have begun to think more as I play, and even people I train against are often surprised by my tactics.

Even if you're not overly dependent on something, this is often quite useful to do.

[I T I]

Great idea. Thanks. :)

[Magus420]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned drill grabs. It's particularly good against floaties. Drill -> U-smash is pretty sexy too.

[ChozenOne]

yeah... but people can be gayie and shield grab you whilst you come down.

[Magus420]

If you don't bother to move behind them if you see them shield it then yeah, I'm sure they could.

[ChozenOne]

ouch... but seriously.. even ken gets shield grabbed sometimes...

Nice addition to your sig good sir.